[Megathread] Bernie Sanders 2016

[Kontinuum]

Bernie's theme from now on

[Sargerasraider]

Seriously? You are actually "out" as opposing 1960's civil rights legislation? You actually want black people to be segregated from whites?

Do we finally have a right-winger with the balls to actually admit they are far right?

Preferring that the market deal with any business stupid enough to segregate does not make a person for segregation. You do realize this I hope.

[Deleted]

Preferring that the market deal with any business stupid enough to segregate does not make a person for segregation. You do realize this I hope.

How was the market "dealing" with it in the 1960's? It wasn't. How would that work? Are black people going to boycott essential services that are monopolized or de facto monopolized? Going to walk twenty miles instead of catch the bus?

I thought for a second we were going to get some honesty from you people, but we get the usual comedic backtracking and rationalization of what is essentially ugly racial hatred.

[Sargerasraider]

How was the market "dealing" with it in the 1960's? It wasn't. How would that work? Are black people going to boycott essential services that are monopolized or de facto monopolized? Going to walk twenty miles instead of catch the bus?

I thought for a second we were going to get some honesty from you people, but we get the usual comedic backtracking and rationalization of what is essentially ugly racial hatred.

What do you think would happen if a business segregated itself today? They would be out of business in a week because nobody would go there.

You say a lot of words and bring up ridiculous possibilities, yet forget the biggest issue: we no longer live in the 1960s.

[cordrann]

Sure you can ignore the historic level of Congressional obstructionism which took place in the Obama administration if you would like.

Neither of your responses managed to refute my posts. Injecting over the top rhetoric into your replies does not somehow invalidate the singular fact that the only path forward for the Liberal positions held by Senator Sanders will be advanced by Democrats.

You have made it abundantly clear you are dissatisfied with the current path forward. It is however the only path forward for Liberals to advance Senator Sanders positions.

If you want to shift this into a pragmatic exchange fine, but that seems unlikely given your previous tone.


-edit



Okay, this makes a lot more sense as to why you conveniently left out Congressional obstructionism. You are not a Liberal at all. Everything suddenly became crystal clear. Your agenda is simply to block the Clinton administration and not to have a pragmatic exchange.

Democrats had both the house and a large majority in the Senate for the first two years of the Obama administration, which I am pretty sure is when they are referencing

[Shadowferal]

Democrats had both the house and a large majority in the Senate for the first two years of the Obama administration, which I am pretty sure is when they are referencing

Yup.
And they played political games with differing pet projects that this or that congressperson wanted instead of unifying along major progressive ideals. They fractured and splintered into different little groups ("Blue dogs" prominent among them) and refused to work with each other. It was frustrating to see.

And just because:

Bernie Sanders is the third-party candidate you've been waiting for
-------------------

Cosnidering that the majority say the nominating process is rigged, might as well go for broke.

[Deleted]

What do you think would happen if a business segregated itself today? They would be out of business in a week because nobody would go there.

You say a lot of words and bring up ridiculous possibilities, yet forget the biggest issue: we no longer live in the 1960s.

We were talking about the 1960's. Which of those words do you have trouble with?

[Theodarzna]

Sure you can ignore the historic level of Congressional obstructionism which took place in the Obama administration if you would like.

Neither of your responses managed to refute my posts. Injecting over the top rhetoric into your replies does not somehow invalidate the singular fact that the only path forward for the Liberal positions held by Senator Sanders will be advanced by Democrats.

You have made it abundantly clear you are dissatisfied with the current path forward. It is however the only path forward for Liberals to advance Senator Sanders positions.

If you want to shift this into a pragmatic exchange fine, but that seems unlikely given your previous tone.


-edit



Okay, this makes a lot more sense as to why you conveniently left out Congressional obstructionism. You are not a Liberal at all. Everything suddenly became crystal clear. Your agenda is simply to block the Clinton administration and not to have a pragmatic exchange.

Nope, my agenda is actually a revitalization of this country. I am not an American Conservative but I suppose a British one. After all I was born on the British Isles, though I consider myself Welsh, not British... maybe Briton perhaps. Bernie's ideas and tamping down on the investor Capitalist class are worthwhile projects. Likewise national health services are an essential part of a harmonious society IMHO. More over I am not some war hawk but instead wish America return to its roots of John Addams statement that we "do not go out in search of monsters to destroy."

Bernies Policy ideas in my view represent the means to my own desired end, a tranquil, healthy, happy populace, minding their own business and able to afford to put down roots, start families and live in harmony with their fellow countrymen.

Clinton's policy positions seem to buy into Free Marketism, more sacrifices to the Moloch and Free Trade. More over as a warmongerer, how many more desperate poor unable to find any other work will be made into corpses by her and Kissinger?

[Kontinuum]

Delusional as always

[DeadmanWalking]

Bernies Policy ideas in my view represent the means to my own desired end, a tranquil, healthy, happy populace, minding their own business and able to afford to put down roots, start families and live in harmony with their fellow countrymen.

And you will only have to kill or imprison half the population in Siberia to get this to happen, Comrade.

[Pterodactylus]

Cosnidering that the majority say the nominating process is rigged, might as well go for broke.

The majority deny evolution and Anthropogenic climate change, but hey, it they say the nominating process is rigged, well that's all the evidence we need. Laughable. From that same poll, 25% said they don't know how the primary process even works.

[Theodarzna]

And you will only have to kill or imprison half the population in Siberia to get this to happen, Comrade.

Did he state that as a goal? Don't we have the Dakotas?

Besides, as Peter Hitchens has noted, the free marketeerism is fundamentally unpatriotic, business types have no innate loyalty to their country, only their wallets.

[Luxxor]

The crooked corrupt way Hillary had the super delegates locked up before voting even started is going to enrage Democratic voters (especially Sanders voters) enough to give Trump the presidency.

Mark my words.

[Theodarzna]

Eh, Hillary is a favorite of the warmonger industries that want this hawk to get more of our countrymen killed. She will have all the institutional backing and thus her eventual coronation was all but assured no matter what.

[Fugus]

The crooked corrupt way Hillary had the super delegates locked up before voting even started is going to enrage Democratic voters (especially Sanders voters) enough to give Trump the presidency.

Mark my words.

Not sure about that, while he does have a real chance against Hillary given the number of people who dislike her, hate the crap the DNC and media pulled against Sanders, most of them will probably stay home or write Sanders name in with only a few doing a spite vote for Trump. There are just as many who dislike Trump and will actually vote for Clinton instead among the GOP.

Hate to say it, but economically, Clinton is the strongest GOP choice. While Sanders vs Trump was a sure win for Sanders and Clinton vs Trump is a gamble, the odds are still in Clinton's favor.

You forget, the DNC want Clinton because she plays ball and listens to her sponsors, the GOP want Clinton to win because Trump is killing it on their side virtually guaranteeing he gets the nomination and if try to screw Trump out of the nomination, they commit party suicide for going against their voter base (even though they have no one to blame but themselves by drawing the districts in such a way it amplifies the right which I am betting is also part of the reason Clinton is doing better than she otherwise would have) so they have to let him get the nomination if they want to survive and then in the general if Trump wins that, they are even more screwed in the long term with what he would do.

My biggest laugh is those who think this push dies with Sanders when it predates his presidential run and has been getting stronger by the year so will outlast his run and will probably continue to get stronger each election till something is done. So even if Clinton gets elected, the victory will be short lived as the demographics change and before too long, we might actually get a president worth having who might actually try to fix stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

That depends on whether the "movement" support the democratic party or try to crash it. You can't change a party from the outside.

If the change is strong enough, it must adapt or it loses meaning and is replaced by another which slowly eats it.

You can't change a SYSTEM from the outside without doing something illegal, you can force a party to change from the outside by poaching enough of their members that they either adapt or fade away only to be replaced.

Either the party changes and adapts to the will of its members or it loses members.

While the parties are monoliths that try to resist change as much as it can, they still much give to the will of its people when the push is strong enough if it wishes to keep it people.

Edit: If Trump does win, even if we all lose in the process, I still plan on returning here to watch the Skroe and company meltdown for getting what they deserved with their attitude on the subject to the point it looks like they are trying to push voters to Trump with their clit licking love of Clinton.

[Daerio]

Can't wait for all the shocked faces when Shillary loses to Trump, and everyone tries to somehow blame Bernie instead of addressing the issue.

Bernie was 100% right. He doesn't tell his voters who to vote for or what to do. Hillary has to earn my vote, unlike the herd of sheep she already has behind her no matter what she does. She obviously isn't willing to, so she isn't going to get it.

We're on the slippery slope either way. People aren't happy seeing their American election being co-opted. People notice when they have to drive, stand in lines for hours, and then get told they aren't allowed to vote. They stop believing the bullshit eventually.

The right to vote is a fairly essential American ideal, and we've seen pretty plainly this election that it's a total farce.

[Luxxor]

Not sure about that, while he does have a real chance against Hillary given the number of people who dislike her, hate the crap the DNC and media pulled against Sanders, most of them will probably stay home or write Sanders name in with only a few doing a spite vote for Trump. There are just as many who dislike Trump and will actually vote for Clinton instead among the GOP.

Im not under the illusion that Bernie supporters will vote Trump. Trump is bringing out a record number of voters. Hillary's handling of her campaign and the way in which they have won the nomination is going to keep alot of people who would vote Democrat to stay home or write in Bernie as you stated.

The combination will sink Hillary. The wild card is the Email investigation.

[Theodarzna]

Not sure about that, while he does have a real chance against Hillary given the number of people who dislike her, hate the crap the DNC and media pulled against Sanders, most of them will probably stay home or write Sanders name in with only a few doing a spite vote for Trump. There are just as many who dislike Trump and will actually vote for Clinton instead among the GOP.

Hate to say it, but economically, Clinton is the strongest GOP choice. While Sanders vs Trump was a sure win for Sanders and Clinton vs Trump is a gamble, the odds are still in Clinton's favor.

You forget, the DNC want Clinton because she plays ball and listens to her sponsors, the GOP want Clinton to win because Trump is killing it on their side virtually guaranteeing he gets the nomination and if try to screw Trump out of the nomination, they commit party suicide for going against their voter base (even though they have no one to blame but themselves by drawing the districts in such a way it amplifies the right which I am betting is also part of the reason Clinton is doing better than she otherwise would have) so they have to let him get the nomination if they want to survive and then in the general if Trump wins that, they are even more screwed in the long term with what he would do.

My biggest laugh is those who think this push dies with Sanders when it predates his presidential run and has been getting stronger by the year so will outlast his run and will probably continue to get stronger each election till something is done. So even if Clinton gets elected, the victory will be short lived as the demographics change and before too long, we might actually get a president worth having who might actually try to fix stuff.

IMHO Her real challenge will be a depressed GOTV, since this primary was remarkably anemic for the Democrats. All of the energy was with Sanders, But Hillary has the machinery to win the Primary game. The General (As I've stated) depends much more on GOTV, Independents and is not the small pond with insider friends.

Bernies voters do not trust Clinton, nor Like Clinton, and likely will simply stay home, write in Bernie or a few may go Trump.

Trumps base on the other hand is very motivated to vote for the guy. The GOP is wise on its long game, they know they can't pull shenanigans against their base and hope to win. The GOP is willing to endure Trump to live and fight another day, the DNC is so determined to have Hillary that they ignore the long term party dynamics. Youth vote leftism WAS supposed to be the saving grace of the DNC. That was the source of Democrats triumphalism, that they had the Youth in the bag and naturally they would always have the advantage. However if the DNC goes say full Skroe, which Hillary seems to be the kind of nasty person to do that, the Youth vote will simply become disaffected and cynical and thus disinterested in politics.

Corruption will remain, the country will bleed and as all countries do, it will die like all whom came before it.

[Gorsameth]

Delusional as always

I prefer the "If only we phonebanked more we would have won all states" post

[Theodarzna]

Im not under the illusion that Bernie supporters will vote Trump. Trump is bringing out a record number of voters. Hillary's handling of her campaign and the way in which they have won the nomination is going to keep alot of people who would vote Democrat to stay home or write in Bernie as you stated.

The combination will sink Hillary. The wild card is the Email investigation.

From the outset I've said, Hillary will win the primary, but it will cost her the General Election.