[Megathread] Bernie Sanders 2016

[Budong]

One thing to remember is, though, that Jill Stein is running for president as well, and she won't be dropping out at any point. Would Sanders alienating his own supporters by endorsing Hillary possibly drive them to vote Stein, instead?

Does it really matter?

Short answer to both...no.

[Deleted]

Does it really matter?

Short answer to both...no.

If you want Hillary to win, then yes, it matters. Trump got more votes in the swing states than Hillary and Bernie combined, or at least will if you take into account how well the Republicans have unified behind him. How can Hillary then win, if a vast number of almost half of the voters on the Democratic side decide not to vote for Hillary?

If you think Trump wins, then I suppose no, it won't matter.

[PACOX]

If you want Hillary to win, then yes, it matters. Trump got more votes in the swing states than Hillary and Bernie combined, or at least will if you take into account how well the Republicans have unified behind him. How can Hillary then win, if a vast number of almost half of the voters on the Democratic side decide not to vote for Hillary?

If you think Trump wins, then I suppose no, it won't matter.

Everyone, including Trump, have been making Trump look pretty silly over the past week. He keeps making the GOP winch while giving the DNC easy talking points against him.

Clinton is pulling ahead in the polls and I doubt anything short of an indictment will slow her down.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo.../pres_general/

[Budong]

If you want Hillary to win, then yes, it matters. Trump got more votes in the swing states than Hillary and Bernie combined, or at least will if you take into account how well the Republicans have unified behind him. How can Hillary then win, if a vast number of almost half of the voters on the Democratic side decide not to vote for Hillary?

I honestly can't take you seriously when you say ridiculous things like this. The number is far lower than you claim and won't make a difference in the general. I don't like either candidate but I will vote for Clinton simply to prevent America getting on the crazy train.

Now that Sanders is effectively out of the race, (and only the intentionally naive, blind or obtuse would believe otherwise) who will you support Syd? Clinton? Trump? Or No One...third party candidates at this point being effectively the same thing.

[Matchles]

Saw this video, seems kinda interesting. it mentions Election fraud in CA and why Bernie could draw crowds of thousands while Clinton barely filled a classroom of 20 yet he still lost California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoGeDGHmwJU

article down below
http://justicegazette.org/bernie-defrauded-in-ca.html

So this is what the TimeCube guy has been up to lately. Jesus Christ, I was hoping this was a joke. But no. And people actually believe it?

- - - Updated - - -

Interestingly enough, at the point when all of the media outlets claimed "100%" of California's votes were tallied, giving Hillary 1.9 million votes and Bernie 1.5 million votes, around TWO MILLION ballots were still uncounted. Since then, Hillary's lead in California has dropped somewhat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...for-a-miracle/
https://www.rt.com/usa/346685-sander...counties-flip/

Whether this changes anything as far as the total pledged delegates go, it's still hilarious. This isn't "democracy". You've got 5.5 million people voting and you dismiss 2 million of those? What?

OMG, nearly a million votes counted since it was called for Clinton and Sanders has made up a HUGE deficit... Wait, no no. It has gone from a 12 point Clinton lead to an 11 point Clinton lead. Hmmm, it's almost like when they called the race for her they knew what they were doing.

[Deleted]

I honestly can't take you seriously when you say ridiculous things like this. The number is far lower than you claim and won't make a difference in the general.

Sanders got around 46% of the popular vote, so almost half. Over 83% of TYT subscribers are never Hillary. Several other reports have shown numbers ranging from 30% to 50%. Even if you went by the lowest possible estimate, 30%, don't you think that would be a "vast number" of the voters?

All of that is based on the polls and reporting that has been done throughout the primary season. If you claim far less people are never Hillary, then what exactly is that based on? The situation today is way different from 2008; Sanders and Hillary are much different candidates, and their supporters support much different ideals respectively, compared to Obama and Hillary. You can, of course, look at the 2008 situation and imagine it'll go the same way but imagine if I started quoting something from 8 years ago. That wouldn't fly for a second.

Now that Sanders is effectively out of the race, (and only the intentionally naive, blind or obtuse would believe otherwise) who will you support Syd? Clinton? Trump? Or No One...third party candidates at this point being effectively the same thing.

I'm Finnish, so I don't really "support" anyone, but if I could vote, I'd probably vote for Jill Stein. I would never vote for Hillary, even if she is running against Trump, mainly because I believe Hillary will push the US into more wars much more certainly than Trump will. Then again, it's easy for me to say, because it's not my country. Although, my country is affected by those aforementioned wars.

[Budong]

Not my country.

Ok then your opinions and your made up numbers are irrelevant to me as you have no say in the outcome. I'm not entirely sure why you're such a vocal supporter of Sanders and so wildly against Clinton, but I don't care. I would say don't bother responding as I won't be reading it but I know you won't be able to help yourself.

[Deleted]

Ok then your opinions and your made up numbers are irrelevant to me as you have no say in the outcome. I'm not entirely sure why you're such a vocal supporter of Sanders and so wildly against Clinton, but I don't care. I would say don't bother responding as I won't be reading it but I know you won't be able to help yourself.

I already responded in an edit while you were typing this up.

[Matchles]

Well Sanders made his demands of the DNC today. And like his plan to break up the banks, he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. Here was the list I gathered. He wants DWS replaced as chair of the DNC. He wants to abolish super delegates. He wants same day registration in all states. Finally, he wants all primaries to be open primaries.

What is the problem? Well nothing with the first two. The DNC can replace their chair and get rid of super delegates. But they don't have any control over the type of primary or registration deadlines. That is all controlled by state level legislation. You'd think someone with 25 years in Congress would know something as elementary as this.

[Magicalcrab]

Well Sanders made his demands of the DNC today. And like his plan to break up the banks, he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. Here was the list I gathered. He wants DWS replaced as chair of the DNC. He wants to abolish super delegates. He wants same day registration in all states. Finally, he wants all primaries to be open primaries.

What is the problem? Well nothing with the first two. The DNC can replace their chair and get rid of super delegates. But they don't have any control over the type of primary or registration deadlines. That is all controlled by state level legislation. You'd think someone with 25 years in Congress would know something as elementary as this.

These all sound like excellent things to add to the party platform. Even if they can't snap their fingers and fix it, say, tomorrow, but you could certainly do worse as far as long-term goals go.
Taking part in the political process needs to be way easier and simpler than it currently is, to everyone's benefit.

[Forogil]

June 14 Washington DC primary results:

Clinton 16
Sanders 4

Well Sanders made his demands of the DNC today.

Apart from the problems with the actual demands that shows another problem. He can no longer claim that he has the momentum and that he is polling ahead - instead he is trying to negotiate from a weak position, much weaker than a few weeks ago.

[Gray_Matter]

Apart from the problems with the actual demands that shows another problem. He can no longer claim that he has the momentum and that he is polling ahead - instead he is trying to negotiate from a weak position, much weaker than a few weeks ago.

He took a gamble thinking he would win CA. The problem is that his campaign stopped polling CA quite a few days before the primary because of money. If he had been negotiating before CA then it would have been much better for him. Now it looks like he stayed in the race too long and supporters have already started switching. He also needs to pick his battles better. DWS was appointed by Obama. I can't see anyone replacing her at this point.

The irony of his requests is that if the DNC managed to change all states to open primaries and removed the supers then future progressive candidates won't do nearly as well. Those changes would favor the establishment candidates much better. Someone like Clinton would have wrapped up the race two months ago.

[I Push Buttons]

If you want Hillary to win, then yes, it matters. Trump got more votes in the swing states than Hillary and Bernie combined, or at least will if you take into account how well the Republicans have unified behind him. How can Hillary then win, if a vast number of almost half of the voters on the Democratic side decide not to vote for Hillary?

If you think Trump wins, then I suppose no, it won't matter.

Dude the only people voting for the Green or Libertarian party are a handful of clueless fools disconnected with reality. They are irrelevant in the election.

The Green Party's platform encourages fucking homeopathy... Their platform calls for the immediate closure of ALL nuclear power plants... They are a joke.

And the Libertarian Part? The party that wants to abolish most of the government and rely on anarcho-capitalism to govern society? They are an even bigger joke.

There are only a handful of "#BernieOrBust" idiots out there... And the internet celebrities who "lead" them all still say they should vote for Hillary in swing states.

You live in some fantasy world. Nothing you say is based in reality.

[hrugner]

Dude the only people voting for the Green or Libertarian party are a handful of clueless fools disconnected with reality. They are irrelevant in the election.

The Green Party's platform encourages fucking homeopathy... Their platform calls for the immediate closure of ALL nuclear power plants... They are a joke.

And the Libertarian Part? The party that wants to abolish most of the government and rely on anarcho-capitalism to govern society? They are an even bigger joke.

There are only a handful of "#BernieOrBust" idiots out there... And the internet celebrities who "lead" them all still say they should vote for Hillary in swing states.

You live in some fantasy world. Nothing you say is based in reality.

It's interesting that you claim some group of people live in a fantasy world while also genuinely believing that the hyperbole around both these parties happens to be a factual representation of their views.

[I Push Buttons]

It's interesting that you claim some group of people live in a fantasy world while also genuinely believing that the hyperbole around both these parties happens to be a factual representation of their views.

Ok friend, whatever you say.

[Dextroden]

It's interesting that you claim some group of people live in a fantasy world while also genuinely believing that the hyperbole around both these parties happens to be a factual representation of their views.

There's a reason he drew out the vote of some of the most unstable voters to his side. He ran a tea party campaign.

Ousting the "corrupt establishment"? Check
Promises of a renaissance for the working class? Check
Aggressive voters that have zero issue tanking everything because they don't get their way? Check
Politicians that seem to have zero awareness? (Superdelegates are a corrupt system. GIMME!) Check
A movement that has zero use to people that don't think every lost election is rigged. Check.

If he wasn't running a divisive campaign, why are some of the most divisive and loud people jumping on his wagon?

[Deleted]

There are only a handful of "#BernieOrBust" idiots out there... And the internet celebrities who "lead" them all still say they should vote for Hillary in swing states.

You live in some fantasy world. Nothing you say is based in reality.

I notice recently this "fantasy world" cliche being thrown around in every conversation, if someone doesn't share your viewpoints automatically they live in a fantasy world. I wonder if you think before writing this or it's just an automatic response you picked up and repeat it without being aware.

Regarding Bernie or Bust i understand that if you don't have a candidate that represents your interests then don't bother voting, it's a perfectly legitimate stance, i don't think i owe any party my loyalty. You on the other hand, who most likely are in the same position, think anyone who doesn't swear allegiance to a political party and doesn't vote for a candidate they dislike is an idiot.
A tale as old as time, the ones with the dumbest ideas are also the most smug about them, i've been saying this for years and i'll probably say it until i die.

Also if you think that Clinton or Trump care about you or your wellbeing and will do everything in their power to protect your interests then you're being manipulated. If you vote out of fear in order to stop one candidate from destroying the country then you're also being manipulated, although i recently heard fear always works.

[Deleted]

Sanders can still be the nominee, but that's with the superdelegates, and might require a very, very bad result from the criminal (statement just made by a judge) investigation into Hillary's emails.

However, at this point it's less about Sanders becoming the nominee, and more about what Hillary will do to gain enough of the 45-46% of the voters who are on Sanders' side. Thus far she has done nothing, and is apparently banking on Sanders' supporters to just simply magically change their minds and get behind her. If that's the situation even after the convention, then I don't know who's running her campaign because they're running it into the swamp.

It seems like Hillary and especially her supporters think like it's up to Sanders to somehow "convert" his supporters into Hillary supporters. That just happens to be an idea not tethered in reality. They still don't like what she represents, and Sanders' words don't change that.

There isn't going to be a criminal thing with Hillary's e-mails. They've been investigating for 7 months now, if they had something on her, it would have already been out yet. So we can stop with this delusional shit, republicans have been trying to catch Hillary for decades, they have done a record amount of investigations against her, and she has never been found guilty of anything.

Hillary will be the candidate, and Bernie won't, so either join the Trump train, or the prevent Trump train, because your Bernie will not be the presidential candidate. But if you want to stay delusional, fine by me, keep going, you are only making yourself look like a fool.

-

For those thinking the DNC when being called corrupted by Bernie, is going to do a corrupted move and switch all superdelegates to Bernie, when Hillary won nearly 56% of all the democratic voters and states in this election, you are very delusional, they have done it with close ties, but this isn't even remotely close, this is a gap of nearly 11%.

[Felya]

Regarding Bernie or Bust i understand that if you don't have a candidate that represents your interests then don't bother voting, it's a perfectly legitimate stance, i don't think i owe any party my loyalty. You on the other hand, who most likely are in the same position, think anyone who doesn't swear allegiance to a political party and doesn't vote for a candidate they dislike is an idiot.
A tale as old as time, the ones with the dumbest ideas are also the most smug about them, i've been saying this for years and i'll probably say it until i die.

The fact that you cannot even conceive of voting for anyone other than two parties, is your mistake. Where were Bernie supporters for the last 20 years, when the Green Party has been pushing nearly identical policy? Why bust and not Jill Stein... "Bernie or bust" just seems superficial when Jill Stein is on the ballot...

[Yvaelle]

The fact that you cannot even conceive of voting for anyone other than two parties, is your mistake. Where were Bernie supporters for the last 20 years, when the Green Party has been pushing nearly identical policy? Why bust and not Jill Stein... "Bernie or bust" just seems superficial when Jill Stein is on the ballot...

In the US system voting third party really is a wasted vote - it's an undemocratic system - but that's the reality. Here is an excellent documentary on the subject:



With that said, I am voting for Jill - the worst case scenario is that the Greens get record numbers and become a formalized liberal institution with a louder voice. I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary or Trump - when Hillary was one of the chief advocates for the TPP not long ago (now she claims she's against it), and is more hawkish than Trump or Obama.

National sovereignty matters and the TPP erodes that in favor of global corporatism. Peacetime matters and Hillary beating a war-drum is a worse idea than Trumps wall to me.