[Megathread] Bernie Sanders 2016

[Nadiru]

Prohibition was the Prohibition party and the WCTU, both of which were far right wing social-conservatives. A&S act was federalists, formed on "fiscally sound and nationalistic government".

Saying that a modern progressive has anything to do with any of those things is pretty silly. I would agree that all Americans in general lean towards authoritarian.

The Prohibition Party was not merely run by "far right wing social-conservatives" by the turn of the century, but by progressives. In fact, Prohibitionists and Progressives elected the same guy into power several times, both as a Prohibitionist and a Progressive.

And the Alien Enemy Act was signed and enforced by Woodrow Wilson, one of the leading voices in the Progressive Movement in the US.

LOL
The Progressive Party (not affiliated with either one of those "other" parties) made one Hell of a difference a century ago.

Because government needed more revenue and the rich weren't paying their fair share, the income tax was enacted.
Because businesses were peddling tainted meat, food and medicines, pure food and drug laws were enacted.
Because companies were forming trusts that wielded unprecedented powers, the antitrust and monopoly laws were enacted.
Because half the nation's population was denied the right to vote, the women's suffrage law was enacted.

In other instances, the reformers set the tone that produced yet more legislation in the decades that followed; from child labor laws to unemployment compensation, from minimum wage to Social Security.

From the Progressive Party was one of the greatest presidents ever; Progressive Party Platform back when the government was people-oriented. Not this business-oriented mockery.

Teddy Roosevelt was an unashamed and unabashed admirer of Otto von Bismarck and his "enlightened monarchy" concept, a concept which led directly into both Italian Fascism and Nazism. And given Teddy's...disregard for the democratic institutions which ran the US, touting him as "one of the good guys" while proclaiming him wholly unlike a fascist seems specious. In fact, there's a lot of overlap between the platforms on the left and the alleged far-right platforms of fascism.

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

[ringpriest]

The Prohibition Party was not merely run by "far right wing social-conservatives" by the turn of the century, but by progressives. In fact, Prohibitionists and Progressives elected the same guy into power several times, both as a Prohibitionist and a Progressive.

And the Alien Enemy Act was signed and enforced by Woodrow Wilson, one of the leading voices in the Progressive Movement in the US.



Teddy Roosevelt was an unashamed and unabashed admirer of Otto von Bismarck and his "enlightened monarchy" concept, a concept which led directly into both Italian Fascism and Nazism. And given Teddy's...disregard for the democratic institutions which ran the US, touting him as "one of the good guys" while proclaiming him wholly unlike a fascist seems specious. In fact, there's a lot of overlap between the platforms on the left and the alleged far-right platforms of fascism.

You seem to have left off the first 10 and last 7 points of the Nazi platform - everyone should go take a look a them, and see which candidate comes to mind after reading about withdrawing from treaties, seizing foreign resources, passing laws against foreigners, expelling non-citizens, banning immigration, and cracking down on the press.

[Matchles]

They have their reasons. At least 5.

Nothing screams "take my criticism seriously like photoshopping lizard eyes on the subject of your critique." If you head back 10-20 pages the criticisms in this video were already addressed.

[Nadiru]

You seem to have left off the first 10 and last 7 points of the Nazi platform - everyone should go take a look a them, and see which candidate comes to mind after reading about withdrawing from treaties, seizing foreign resources, passing laws against foreigners, expelling non-citizens, banning immigration, and cracking down on the press.

Expelling minorities on the basis that they are usurious capitalists, the pursuit of autarky, nationalizing natural resources, banning immigration, and cracking down on freedom of the press are all things which make up the leftist playbook as much as the rightist one.

7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

At bare minimum, about half of the supposed right-wing platform is leftist both in intent and rhetoric. And this makes sense if one recognizes that Fascism and Nazism are competitors to Communism, not Democracy. In fact, 20th century Nazism, Fascism, and Communism were all revolutionary (in the political sense; wanting to change the status quo) towards Democracy, but had major areas where they overlapped with each other. Communists could be (and were) nationalist (Stalin's "Great Patriotic War" said hi,) Fascism wasn't inherently anti-Jew (Jews made up a bulk of Mussolini's cabinet and high-ranking officials) and was belligerent towards Nazism (Fascist Italy threatened to invade Nazi Germany over the Anschluss.)

This history gets lost by the wayside because, well, the European and American left would rather people disregard almost a century of being genocidal jackboots. I don't blame them; If I had a history as bad as that, I'd want people to kinda skim over it, too.

[mvaliz]

Can anyone tell me why Bernie's supporters are protesting the Clinton events? I think it does him a disservice, if anything.

Before that, can anybody sight to me a moment where Bernie supporters were protesting Clinton events?

[Gray_Matter]

They have their reasons. At least 5.

According to Politifact, Obama has done 12 full flops and Clinton 2. Regardless, that's a weak excuse to protest someone. If they aren't happy with her or her positions then they need to vote for someone else and leave it at that. It looks like sour grapes because their candidate is losing. If they want to do something constructive then they should be out trying to convince people to vote for Bernie instead of trying a cheap shot like they did.

- - - Updated - - -

Before that, can anybody sight to me a moment where Bernie supporters were protesting Clinton events?

They did it in the same event where she had a go at the Greenpeace activist.

[Vash The Stampede]

According to Politifact, Obama has done 12 full flops and Clinton 2. Regardless, that's a weak excuse to protest someone. If they aren't happy with her or her positions then they need to vote for someone else and leave it at that. It looks like sour grapes because their candidate is losing. If they want to do something constructive then they should be out trying to convince people to vote for Bernie instead of trying a cheap shot like they did.

If you watched the video, he clearly says he has a lot more. He kept it 5 for a short video, not because 5 were the only times he found Hilary flops. But it isn't about that, but how it shows she's bought. Companies have a lot of power, a bit too much power and Hilary would give them everything they want.

Protesting is fine, so long as it doesn't become physical and it's legal. Regardless on who you're voting for, you can see a lot of angry irrational people. They aren't happy with the way things are working right now, and clearly want change. Trumps slogan is "Make America great again" and that suggests America right now isn't great and a lot of people seem to agree with this indirect notion. Bernie is a flipping socialist and a good lot of Americans would vote for him. Hilary is in the middle, where she will basically continue where Obama has left off.

My issue with Hilary is that she was for universal health care. Now she's for Affordable Care Act, which was a great temporary idea, but should be dead and buried. Should be replaced with Universal Health Care. It can be done because a bunch of other countries do it. That's why she flip flops and that's why I feel like she's bought.

Just look at this. The ones in Black I recognize and just hate, but a few others are from health insurance companies. There was a point where she said that health insurance and drug companies are “enemies”. WTF Hilary?

EMILY's List $907,510 $898,590 $8,920
Citigroup Inc $891,501 $883,501 $8,000
DLA Piper $852,873 $825,873 $27,000
Goldman Sachs $831,523 $821,523 $10,000
JPMorgan Chase & Co $801,380 $798,380 $3,000
Morgan Stanley $765,242 $760,242 $5,000
University of California $686,509 $686,509 $0
Time Warner $603,170 $578,170 $25,000
Skadden, Arps et al $562,182 $557,682 $4,500
Corning Inc $492,750 $474,750 $18,000
Kirkland & Ellis $491,066 $474,066 $17,000
Paul, Weiss et al $430,919 $430,919 $0
Greenberg Traurig LLP $422,195 $414,095 $8,100
Akin, Gump et al $398,898 $395,398 $3,500
Sullivan & Cromwell $395,807 $395,807 $0
National Amusements Inc $386,698 $383,698 $3,000
Harvard University $384,769 $384,769 $0
Ernst & Young $377,082 $357,082 $20,000
21st Century Fox $373,482 $373,482 $0
Lehman Brothers $362,853 $359,853 $3,000

[Gray_Matter]

If you watched the video, he clearly says he has a lot more. He kept it 5 for a short video, not because 5 were the only times he found Hilary flops. But it isn't about that, but how it shows she's bought. Companies have a lot of power, a bit too much power and Hilary would give them everything they want.

Protesting is fine, so long as it doesn't become physical and it's legal. Regardless on who you're voting for, you can see a lot of angry irrational people. They aren't happy with the way things are working right now, and clearly want change. Trumps slogan is "Make America great again" and that suggests America right now isn't great and a lot of people seem to agree with this indirect notion. Bernie is a flipping socialist and a good lot of Americans would vote for him. Hilary is in the middle, where she will basically continue where Obama has left off.

My issue with Hilary is that she was for universal health care. Now she's for Affordable Care Act, which was a great temporary idea, but should be dead and buried. Should be replaced with Universal Health Care. It can be done because a bunch of other countries do it. That's why she flip flops and that's why I feel like she's bought.

Just look at this. The ones in Black I recognize and just hate, but a few others are from health insurance companies. There was a point where she said that health insurance and drug companies are “enemies”. WTF Hilary?

I am not saying that the protesting is illegal, just that I think it's the wrong thing to do. You might not agree with her positions on things, that's fine. She has a different opinion on what she thinks will work. You don't see the Cruz supporters protesting Bernie's events do you? Their positions are very different from his. That's what voting is all about.

On the universal health care, be careful what you wish for. Take a look at the waiting times for procedures in all of the countries with universal health care.

[Shadowferal]

So...it's not about the TPP which she now opposes...
It's not about Prison Reform...which she wants (which was her husband's shitty thing)
It's not about increased regulation on Wall Street...which she says she wants
It's not about increased taxation on the wealthy...which she says she wants

It's about Health Care? Hmm...Be careful what you wish for indeed since among the progressive west, the US doesn't even rank among the top ten best.

[Vash The Stampede]

So...it's not about the TPP which she now opposes...
It's not about Prison Reform...which she wants (which was her husband's shitty thing)
It's not about increased regulation on Wall Street...which she says she wants
It's not about increased taxation on the wealthy...which she says she wants

Those are issues that both Bernie and Hilary are mostly on the same page. But in all those situations, Bernie was more consistent.

It's about Health Care? Hmm...Be careful what you wish for indeed since among the progressive west, the US doesn't even rank among the top ten best.

Maybe that's why we want change?

[russellwp94]

That picture with Bernie vs Hillary puts some things into perspective...

[Shadowferal]

It's a bit dated.

She changed some of her views late last year when she realized that there were thousands of people being drawn to Sanders' speeches, while her own speeches drew a relative few...

[infinitemeridian]

Those are issues that both Bernie and Hilary are mostly on the same page. But in all those situations, Bernie was more consistent.



Maybe that's why we want change?

Half of those things are flat out wrong in that image, the other use the assumption that her stance on things are necessarily bad without any reason as to why.

[Zeth Hawkins]

Half of those things are flat out wrong in that image, the other use the assumption that her stance on things are necessarily bad without any reason as to why.

By all means, which ones are wrong? Which stances aren't "necessarily bad"?

[Gray_Matter]

By all means, which ones are wrong? Which stances aren't "necessarily bad"?

I haven't looked at the chart in depth. I just wanted to point out one thing. One of the benefits of being an independent is that you can always vote the way you want. Quite often party members will vote for something as part of a compromise in order to get something else passed. I think that's part of the reason why the DNC prefer Clinton.

[infinitemeridian]

By all means, which ones are wrong? Which stances aren't "necessarily bad"?

She never supported the pipeline, she was neutral towards it. She does not support the TPP anymore (though I hope she changes back, because the TPP is a good thing). There is no point to Glass-Steagal now that we have Dodd Frank, and if you read her policies, you would know that she will increase wall-street regulation. Sanders voted for the Afghanistan war, and it doesn't matter that she voted for the Iraq war, since it was very popular at the time. She has always been for gay rights, just not gay marriage until 2006 on a state by state basis. Snowden deserves to be in jail.

I know it's easy to point to her campaign contributions, but there is no evidence that they are influencing her in any way.

[Vash The Stampede]

Found this video, though a bit old but never seen it before.

[Theodarzna]

Not sure if I read this right, but Bernie won Nevada after all?

[Shadowferal]

She does not support the TPP anymore (though I hope she changes back, because the TPP is a good thing).

You mean you hope she's lying through her teeth...just saying the things to get her the votes to win...

[Biotec]

Not sure if I read this right, but Bernie won Nevada after all?

Just more proof that the American caucus and primary system is a giant clusterfuck that no one really understands.