[Megathread] Bernie Sanders 2016

[Matchles]

Sure, if you like the watered-down or non-existent "promises kept", you can be happy with it. Except that doesn't count his many wars and attempts at illegal regime change around the world; his declaration that he can vaporize anyone, anytime, arbitrarily on his decision alone with a drone strike, including U.S. citizens, with no presentation of evidence to any court of law or accountability; as well as still having U.S. presence in places he promised to get out of; not to mention the spooks that we have no real oversight on that are clandestinely spread around the globe; AND - warrantless wiretapping, spying internet and phones, you name it with virtually no let up.

You'll notice he conveniently "looked forward, not backward" on his promises to hold Shrub & Darth accountable for their criminal actions which ran the gamut. Wouldn't it be great if you or I could commit crimes and the judge said, "Hey let's just forget the past, guys! Let's look to the FUTURE! Why get bogged down in that 'old stuff', nah..." Yet that 'old stuff' is continued in his administration.

"We tortured a few folks." Eh, no prob!

What about the 10s of trillions handed over to his Wall St. benefactors (which was soon enough gambled again on the financial Roulette tables) or strapped on the backs of the taxpayer as mountainous debt that can never be repaid - with no one of note being prosecuted, let alone convicted or jailed?

Or the bailouts of GM and Chrysler, while screwing the union workers with more austerity but the CEOs getting richer, and in the case of GM, getting away with killing hundreds of people with faulty ignition switches? Again, no one of note prosecuted. Don't make me laugh with that fine - it was merely the cost of doing business for a corp. as large as GM.

This lovely overview can go on and on, but I think the point is made that Obama is indeed as bad or worse than his predecessor, and the oligarchy's Establishment Girl will be no better and probably worse.

Oh great a retributivist. Let's forget about whether what was actually done was illegal. Somebody somewhere did something that had a bad consequence. String them up! Proving actual intention to do harm is just an aside. Who cares if what the banks did was legal at the time, throw them in jail! Lets waste time and resources prosecuting people instead of working to fix whatever harm was done. Let's ignore the fact the bailouts made the government nearly $70 billion dollars. They were bad because... yeah not seeing it.

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Next time you guys want to complain about the superdelegates, it would help to notice that Tad Devine is the person credited with creating the system. Yes, that same Tad Devine that is Sanders' chief strategist. The same Tad Devine that Sanders is paying $800,000 a month to work on his campaign.

[Rukh]

On imgur I see bernie supporters fabricating a conspiracy to play victim about.

all three major news networks ignored bernie sanders’ speech tuesday night, to show empty trump podium

As Bernie Sanders took the stage on Tuesday night, the cable networks continued doing what they do best – talking.

Fox News, CNN and MSNBC all declined to carry Sanders’ speech, instead offering jokes about the evening while showing live coverage of Trumps empty podium while promising that we were all, “AWAITING TRUMP” and “STANDING BY FOR TRUMP.“

in fact: every other candidate had air time except for sanders

As if these stations couldn’t get any more corrupt, The Huffington Post’s Michael Calderone reported that the media have collectively given Trump some $2 billion worth of free air time.

Here's the problem. ALL the candidates are campaigning like mad right now. they're speaking all over the place nearly every day. Mr. Sanders actually has a fairly light schedule:

Here's his upcoming events:
Apr 17 Brooklyn, New York
Apr 26 Pawtucket, Rhode Island
Apr 30 Columbus, Ohio

I assume those are the three he's at, no other dates are listed.

As you can see, fairly often. Is everyone one of these supposed to be national news televised everywhere or else all the bernie bros are victims of a vast conspiracy?

On the other hand, look at Ms. Clinton's schedule of events:

April 11, 2016 Glen Cove, New York Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 11, 2016 Mount Kisco, New York Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 12, 2016 Miami Beach, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 12, 2016 Manalapan, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 14, 2016 Democratic Debate Television (CNN) Hillary Clinton
April 16, 2016 Los Angeles, California Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 24, 2016 Stamford, Connecticut Fundraiser Hillary Clinton

Those are the 7 she's at, there's about 45 events listed on her campaign's schedule, some with bill or Chelsea as main speaker.

She had events in three different states today. Was she on all networks three times today? No she wasn't. Was it some conspiracy to black out her media coverage? No!

[Zeth Hawkins]

April 11, 2016 Glen Cove, New York Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 11, 2016 Mount Kisco, New York Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 12, 2016 Miami Beach, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 12, 2016 Manalapan, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 14, 2016 Democratic Debate Television (CNN) Hillary Clinton
April 16, 2016 Los Angeles, California Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 24, 2016 Stamford, Connecticut Fundraiser Hillary Clinton

Just want to point out that only one of those isn't a fundraiser. Gave me a good chuckle.

Also enjoying Sanders supporters being called Bernie Bros. Anyone remember the Obama Boys pejorative? Ahh, the nostalgia.

[Caolela]

Oh great a retributivist. Let's forget about whether what was actually done was illegal. Somebody somewhere did something that had a bad consequence. String them up! Proving actual intention to do harm is just an aside. Who cares if what the banks did was legal at the time, throw them in jail! Lets waste time and resources prosecuting people instead of working to fix whatever harm was done. Let's ignore the fact the bailouts made the government nearly $70 billion dollars. They were bad because... yeah not seeing it.

No one thought it was a waste of time and resources in the 80s, no one said "look forward, not backward", when plenty of scumbags were prosecuted and hit the clink. I was in my 20s and remember it. Of course, there were still some in D.C. then who had actual integrity:

Moyers and Company caught up with a man who knows a lot about fraud — and fraud prosecutions — to explain why that is, and what the possible consequences of letting Wall Street off the hook might be. William K. Black, now a professor of law at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, is a former bank regulator who played an integral role in throwing a number of high-level executives in jail for white-collar crimes during the savings and loan crisis in the 1980s. We spoke with Black by phone. A lightly edited transcript of our discussion is below.

Joshua Holland: To date, a few loan officers — small fish — have been convicted of various offenses related to the financial crash. But none of the big bankers have faced any charges. And it’s not that the government has been losing cases in the courts. There’s simply been no concerted effort to prosecute these guys. Can you contrast that with what happened during the savings and loan scandal of the 1980s, and also give us your sense of why this has been the case?

William Black: Sure. The savings and loan debacle was one-seventieth the size of the current crisis, both in terms of losses and the amount of fraud. In that crisis, the savings and loan regulators made over 30,000 criminal referrals, and this produced over 1,000 felony convictions in cases designated as “major” by the Department of Justice. But even that understates the degree of prioritization, because we, the regulators, worked very closely with the FBI and the Justice Department to create a list of the top 100 — the 100 worst fraud schemes. They involved roughly 300 savings and loans and 600 individuals, and virtually all of those people were prosecuted. We had a 90 percent conviction rate, which is the greatest success against elite white-collar crime (in terms of prosecution) in history. ...

From a guy who was there, Bill Black. It would do you good to read the whole interview.

$70. billion? That's peanuts compared to the trillions it cost the taxpayers, and the overall economy in many other ways, even around the world. We still haven't recovered no matter what the feel-good liars say on the corporate TV and newspapers. Those trillions in the banks' liabilities the gov't took on, and the monies doled out during QE will never be paid down because it can't be. It's too enormous.

Are you seeing it yet? Or will you keep trying to defend the indefensible?

[ringpriest]

On imgur I see bernie supporters fabricating a conspiracy to play victim about.




Here's the problem. ALL the candidates are campaigning like mad right now. they're speaking all over the place nearly every day. Mr. Sanders actually has a fairly light schedule:

Here's his upcoming events:
Apr 17 Brooklyn, New York
Apr 26 Pawtucket, Rhode Island
Apr 30 Columbus, Ohio

I assume those are the three he's at, no other dates are listed.

As you can see, fairly often. Is everyone one of these supposed to be national news televised everywhere or else all the bernie bros are victims of a vast conspiracy?

On the other hand, look at Ms. Clinton's schedule of events:

April 11, 2016 Glen Cove, New York Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 11, 2016 Mount Kisco, New York Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 12, 2016 Miami Beach, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 12, 2016 Manalapan, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 14, 2016 Democratic Debate Television (CNN) Hillary Clinton
April 16, 2016 Los Angeles, California Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
April 24, 2016 Stamford, Connecticut Fundraiser Hillary Clinton

Those are the 7 she's at, there's about 45 events listed on her campaign's schedule, some with bill or Chelsea as main speaker.

She had events in three different states today. Was she on all networks three times today? No she wasn't. Was it some conspiracy to black out her media coverage? No!

Perhaps the media can't all afford the $30,000 to $350,000 fee to get to talk to her? Or maybe they're not reporting because they were silenced by the white noise generator her campaign targeted them with?

(Don't get me wrong, she's better than Trump, but so is the dirty water that runs into the drains when it rains. And she just makes stuff like this so damned easy.)

[derpkitteh]

first of all, the mainstream media's bias towards clinton is blatant. so blatant, not seeing it would mean you probably wouldn't see the bull elephant that's raging in musk, about to wipe your ass out.

but anyway, i just saw a TYT thing about clinton bringing up the alien thing, being more transparent with it. this is a lie of course, it's the same thing bill did when he was running, probably told her to say it. but anyway, it made me think about it, and i bet bernie would actually be straight up with us on it. he doesn't strike me as one to be a bitch and hide it like all the other presidents so far.

if i had political ambitions, i'd lie my ass off my whole career in line with what they want me to say about it. then as soon as i was in office, i'd call one of those big presidential broadcasts and interrupt everyone's television and tell EVERYTHING about it.

[Gray_Matter]

April 14, 2016 Democratic Debate Television (CNN) Hillary Clinton

I am pretty sure that Bernie will be at that one too

[Caolela]

if i had political ambitions, i'd lie my ass off my whole career in line with what they want me to say about it. then as soon as i was in office, i'd call one of those big presidential broadcasts and interrupt everyone's television and tell EVERYTHING about it.

That would be commendable in my book, but I can assure you that you'd be dead inside a month. The current crop of spineless douchebags know that too.

They didn't kill JFK, MLK, RFK, Ron Brown, Paul Wellstone and others and not send a message.

[derpkitteh]

That would be commendable in my book, but I can assure you that you'd be dead inside a month. The current crop of spineless douchebags know that too.

They didn't kill JFK, MLK, RFK, Ron Brown, Paul Wellstone and others and not send a message.

i'd be dead, but the damage would be done. once you open the box and let out the monsters, there's no amount of cover up gonna fix it.

[Vynestra]

Either this race is going to be over in 15 days, or it'll go on til June 7th. But right now, if I had to hedge my bets, i'd say the race will be over on April 26th (of course someBernie Supporters will say they'll win 120% of CA and get all the supers, but we're talking pledged delegate lead, not some nonsensical fairy tale that won't come true)

[Caolela]

i'd be dead, but the damage would be done. once you open the box and let out the monsters, there's no amount of cover up gonna fix it.

Few if any of the bastards now have the balls or the integrity. Their mouths are stuck too tight on corporate tits.

[Vynestra]

I'm also over the argument "She won big in the south but that doesn't matter because it's the south and dems don't win those in general elections"

Well then, I have this for you: Obama beat Clinton in 9 of 11 ex-confederate states. Fortunately for her, they didn't count it, so she won the nomination.

/s


But let's also note this, what they aren't mentioning: In "swing states" (states where margin in 12 general was within 10 points), Clinton so far has 55.6% of delegates to Sanders' 44.4%. That of course is pretty much identical to the 54.4% to 45.6% margin in delegates (pledged) Clinton has overall so far over Sanders.

But you don't see Sanders supporters mentioning that, do you? Hm, I wonder why.

[Gray_Matter]

I'm also over the argument "She won big in the south but that doesn't matter because it's the south and dems don't win those in general elections"

Well then, I have this for you: Obama beat Clinton in 9 of 11 ex-confederate states. Fortunately for her, they didn't count it, so she won the nomination.

/s


But let's also note this, what they aren't mentioning: In "swing states" (states where margin in 12 general was within 10 points), Clinton so far has 55.6% of delegates to Sanders' 44.4%. That of course is pretty much identical to the 54.4% to 45.6% margin in delegates (pledged) Clinton has overall so far over Sanders.

But you don't see Sanders supporters mentioning that, do you? Hm, I wonder why.

If I am not mistaken she has won the swing states 6 to 3 with Bernie having won Colorado, New Hampshire and Wisconsin, or something like that. Pennsylvania is still outstanding but she is ahead in that one at the moment.

[Masark]

I'm also over the argument "She won big in the south but that doesn't matter because it's the south and dems don't win those in general elections"

Well then, I have this for you: Obama beat Clinton in 9 of 11 ex-confederate states. Fortunately for her, they didn't count it, so she won the nomination.

You appear to have reading comprehension problems.

The former is about electability in the general election, then you switch to babbling about electability in the primaries.

[Gray_Matter]

Wow, I had a look at the Bernie Sanders reddit. Those guys/gals are pretty passionate about him. In some cases they were driving 7 hours to go and knock on doors in NY. One thing that I found a bit concerning was this discussion:

In the phonebanking 101 instructions, it says to end the call if the person says they are leaning Clinton. Should we get this changed to try to persuade them to change?

And then someone responded with:

They have a special team of persuasion callers, that call those people. I am on one of the caller teams that does this.

Shouldn't they just let people vote the way that they want?

[Gorsameth]

i'd be dead, but the damage would be done. once you open the box and let out the monsters, there's no amount of cover up gonna fix it.

Right, like all those other times the lid get blown off major controversial topics only for it to be forgotten 5 days later.

If it was impossible to close the box Snowden wouldn't be hiding in an embassy for the rest of his life.

ps.
Good to see Bernie got the JFK conspirators on his side...

[Deleted]

Shouldn't they just let people vote the way that they want?

You're talking about certain Clinton supporters in this thread, and how they should let people vote for Sanders, right?

[derpkitteh]

Right, like all those other times the lid get blown off major controversial topics only for it to be forgotten 5 days later.

If it was impossible to close the box Snowden wouldn't be hiding in an embassy for the rest of his life.

ps.
Good to see Bernie got the JFK conspirators on his side...

idk about jfk, but i do honestly think that if i were president and i blew the lid off something like that, they might cut my transmission and kill me right there.

though, i have a sneaking suspicion that there might not actually be anything to reveal. or, what secrets there are, are much worse than aliens.

[Skroe]

Which will result in the same ignored campaign promises, obfuscation, and feel-good talk as we got from Obama, while what she'll actually do is Bush Redux - Part IV, New & Improved!™; Obama having been Bush III.

Wall St., mega-corporations, and warmongers uber alles.

Your long-winded diatribes fool no one.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Exactly

First, reverse order. Long Winded diatribes? I'm sorry to force you to engage your basic litteracy skills on a forum for more than 15 second bursts. Maybe you should stick to imgur?

Secondly, read my post again (not that I think you read it the first time). We, in this case are talking about Bernie vs Hillary. The same post applies to Trump vs Cruz. Or PC versus Console. Or Diet Coke vs Diet Pepsi. It's an extremely general point that just makes some Bernie-specific example.

What's that point? That liking something, even emphatically, emotially liking something, is not a lisence to be non-critical about that something.

I was responding to a post on that very topic and explaining my view on it. But I'll state it again with Respect to Bernie Sanders: you folks can like Bernie Sanders all you want. That is your right nobody can take that away from you. But - and your post illustrates my point clearer than I ever could - the fanboyism of Sanders and his agenda has led to a very unhelpful situation FOR YOUR OWN GOALS whereby you want to win, but you don't want to take a tough look at what Sanders is doing right and doing wrong.

The next post I'm gonna write, in response to another poster who asked me "what do I think Sanders should have done" will offer specifics in that regard. But it's disturbing that so many Sanderistas haven't done that. They get criticized, they'll have an episode, as you just did. Or they'll talk about the momentum fairy. Or they'll lament something about how Sanders is our only hope for a non-corporate President.

You know, browsing this thread, what I haven't seen, in the ostensible "Megathread Bernie Sanders", for OT's Sanderistas? "Why did we lose _________ and what can we do to make sure we never experience that again." You folks don't do that. Instead you deflect, excuse and rationalize.

Hillary Clinton lost in 2008 because she and her campaign did exactly what you folks in the Sanders camp are doing against the Obama campaign, which I'll remind you, lost New Hampshire, and on the back of one of Obama's biggest speeches, dramatically retooled.

Really, Sanders supporters have the biggest entitlement complex of this campaign. You think because the ideas are good and convincing, that that is reason enough. Never has been, never will be. People have interests and the reason Bernie Sanders is failing - falling behind on delegates despite winning states indicates this - is because, ultimately, the campaign didn't constantly retool itself to make common cause with people's interests in locale by locale.

Instead we got sloganeering, pouting and fanboyism. When Sanders does concede, you folks will blame other people, but look in the mirror.

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Either this race is going to be over in 15 days, or it'll go on til June 7th. But right now, if I had to hedge my bets, i'd say the race will be over on April 26th (of course someBernie Supporters will say they'll win 120% of CA and get all the supers, but we're talking pledged delegate lead, not some nonsensical fairy tale that won't come true)

Bernie will go until June 8th now I'm convinced. His required delegate hauls keep increasing despite these string of minor victories because the total delegate pool shrinks, but this isn't a reality based campaign anymore.

It was over after Super-Duper Tuesday March 14th.

[Zeth Hawkins]

Words and such.