Norway starts deporting immigrants coming through Russia back to Russia

[Deleted]

TL;DR: Immigrants have been coming towards Norway, Sweden etc through Russia too using a loophole. Norway talked to Russia and they deemed that since Russia is a safe country and most of these immigrants had been issued temporary visas there, they can be sent back to Russia. Norway has started doing so, sending 13 people, but planning to send another 5000.

What can I say, well done Norway! The whole deal with refugees was about safety. Once they reach a safe country, they shouldn't be allowed to roam in whatever country they wish without the right papers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35355727

"Norway has sent 13 migrants back to Russia under new rules expected to see thousands deported by bus, reports say.

About 5,500 people are due to be transported from Norway to Russia. Many crossed the Arctic border by bicycle as part of the influx of migrants to Europe in 2015.

Norway announced in November it would immediately deport people who had arrived from a country deemed safe.

The first bus left a refugee shelter in the town of Kirkenes earlier.

Norway previously planned to send the migrants back to Russia by bicycle due to rules that banned vehicles from transporting people across the border without the necessary documents. People were also prohibited from crossing on foot.

Thousands of migrants used bicycles to cross the border last year after discovering a loophole in the law.

Most of them had fled the conflict in Syria.

Seeking asylum on children's bicycles

Migration to Europe explained in graphics

The move to deport the migrants has been condemned by human rights groups. The daytime temperature at the border is about -30C.

It comes after Russia agreed that Norway could return migrants with a Russian visa by bus rather than bicycle.

A coach with 13 people on board drove to the airport in the Russian port city of Murmansk on Tuesday night, according to Norwegian public TV.

Tor Espen Haga, a spokesman for the Norwegian police immigration service, told the broadcaster NRK (in Norwegian), that all those transported had either a valid Russian visa or other residence permit.

He said deportations would continue, and "what happens next is up to the Russians".

Over the weekend, about 70 people were brought from other asylum centres in Norway to the reception centre in Kirkenes, about 8km (5 miles) from the Russian border, according to reports.

About 40 people have fled a centre in Vadso for fear of being returned to Russia, Norwegian media quoted the head of the centre as saying.

There were also reports that a group of migrants in Kirkenes had started a hunger strike to protest against the planned deportation.

Norway's police authorities say 5,500 people arrived from Russia via the border crossing in Kirkenes in the second half of 2015.

All of them had visas or other permits allowing them temporary or long term stay in Russia and will therefore be returned, reports the BBC Russian Service's Oleg Boldyrev.

Human rights groups have condemned the move in a letter to the UN's refugee agency, our correspondent adds. They say Russia should not be considered a safe place for refugees.

Increasing numbers of migrants began crossing Russia's border with Norway by bicycle last year, in an attempt to avoid the perilous journey across the Mediterranean to Europe.

Although Norway is not a member of the EU, it is part of the Schengen Agreement which is designed to provide border-free travel."

[Independent voter]

Russia doesn't have any money.

[Revi]

Funniest fucking this when they started coming that way.. There was a law at the border that meant they could not walk or drive over it, but there was no law against riding a bicycle across, so all the refugees started riding bikes across and sending the bikes back over for the next guy and there was nothing we could do about it.

The loopholes are real.

Edit: note to self, read OP before posting stuff. -.-

[Grym]

Funniest fucking this when they started coming that way.. There was a law at the border that meant they could not walk or drive over it, but there was no law against riding a bicycle across, so all the refugees started riding bikes across and sending the bikes back over for the next guy and there was nothing we could do about it.

The loopholes are real.

Doesn't matter, they are getting sent back now anyway lol

It doesn't matter how clever a loophole is, if the government didn't like what they do with it, they change the law.

See: Jaffa cake lawsuit

[Deleted]

Thing about it though is that Russia isn't a safe country for refugees. Out of 143m citizens only 800 or so are even apply to apply to get refugee status. Because of public corruption, the bribery required to even be allowed to apply for assylum is very high. Russia does not have much in infrastructure or experience in dealing with immigration, and its not even close to "Oh no they can't get money there" its more like they are likely to live on the street there.

When the norwegian immigration minister, who decided this, was asked what made her decide that russia was a safe country she could not back it up with any data whatsoever. It was redirection, upon redirection, claiming they had data but unable to point in any direction as to where she had that data from.

I don't think norway has to take every single refugee in the world - it would be nice if we could, but we can't, however the idea that the only inconvience with being in russia instead of norway is that they don't get any money is naive. Russia is absolutely not a safe country for a refugee to stay in, and sending them back there is at best forcing them to spend huge amounts of money on bribes (which they probably don't have) to be taken into a system with little experience in housing refugees, and at worst being homeless in -37 degree winter. It is an embarassment to norway that this is happening.

[Dextroden]

Thing about it though is that Russia isn't a safe country for refugees. Out of 143m citizens only 800 or so are even apply to apply to get refugee status. Because of public corruption, the bribery required to even be allowed to apply for assylum is very high. Russia does not have much in infrastructure or experience in dealing with immigration, and its not even close to "Oh no they can't get money there" its more like they are likely to live on the street there.

When the norwegian immigration minister, who decided this, was asked what made her decide that russia was a safe country she could not back it up with any data whatsoever. It was redirection, upon redirection, claiming they had data but unable to point in any direction as to where she had that data from.

I don't think norway has to take every single refugee in the world - it would be nice if we could, but we can't, however the idea that the only inconvience with being in russia instead of norway is that they don't get any money is naive. Russia is absolutely not a safe country for a refugee to stay in, and sending them back there is at best forcing them to spend huge amounts of money on bribes (which they probably don't have) to be taken into a system with little experience in housing refugees, and at worst being homeless in -37 degree winter. It is an embarassment to norway that this is happening.

Should have considered all of that before trying to lawyer their way across the border and getting countered.

[Cybran]

Russia doesn't have any money.

USA owes 20 trillion dollars.

Norway has 700 billion dollars reserves for 5 million people. They should take more refuguees.

[Mormolyce]

Russia is a lot of things but I doubt safe is one of them :P

[Deleted]

Should have considered all of that before trying to lawyer their way across the border and getting countered.

Here's a situation for you:
Your country is bombed to shit, crazy goverment on one side, crazy fanatics on the other, half your family is dead, some are injuried.

Option 1) Join a side, fight, probably die, probably rest of your family dies.

Option 2) Get your family on this tiny boat, cross an ocean in said tiny boat which will probably be filled up to 3-4x capacity by peoplesmugglers, possibly die/get lost at sea.

Option 3) Cross some countries by land, use a loophole in a law to get to a country that is supposedly good to refugees. Its still cold as fuck, still dangeorus, but you're on land the whole trip, and you will probably make it allright.

Now I'm not saying the refugee stream isn't a huge challenge, and it needs to be dealt with. I don't think blaming people for the inconvience of "lawyering their way through a border" when these were the options is the response we should be having. I also don't think sending them back to a country were in all likelyhood they will die of hypothermia is what should be done - or for that matter sending them all the way back home, were they are likely to die - or join up with terrorist forces in an attempt to not die themselves. When the enemy's recruitment essentially boils down to "Help us or die" we should not punish those who run away, especially when it comes to people who are doctors, engineers or other highly educated individuals, but anyone who actually does run should be helped, not sent back to be recruited.

[Yvaelle]

USA owes 20 trillion dollars.

Norway has 700 billion dollars reserves for 5 million people. They should take more refuguees.

The USA owes nothing, because nobody can collect from them.

It's like if I told you there was $20 Trillion in a briefcase in orbit around Proxima Centauri. That's great - but you won't be a Trillionaire if you can't get to it. The perks of being a military and economic hyperpower.

I think Norway is free to respond how they wish - and agree that the attempt to cross into Norway by circumventing their policies was foolish, and they should be sent back: do it properly.

[Cybran]

The USA owes nothing, because nobody can collect from them.

Of course you can. You stop lending to them. Watch them crash and burn and pick up the pieces.

[Yvaelle]

Of course you can. You stop lending to them. Watch them crash and burn and pick up the pieces.

Lending to them is a good investment. So long as that remains true - our lifetimes - lending won't stop.

[Dextroden]

Here's a situation for you:
Your country is bombed to shit, crazy goverment on one side, crazy fanatics on the other, half your family is dead, some are injuried.

Option 1) Join a side, fight, probably die, probably rest of your family dies.

Option 2) Get your family on this tiny boat, cross an ocean in said tiny boat which will probably be filled up to 3-4x capacity by peoplesmugglers, possibly die/get lost at sea.

Option 3) Cross some countries by land, use a loophole in a law to get to a country that is supposedly good to refugees. Its still cold as fuck, still dangeorus, but you're on land the whole trip, and you will probably make it allright.

Now I'm not saying the refugee stream isn't a huge challenge, and it needs to be dealt with. I don't think blaming people for the inconvience of "lawyering their way through a border" when these were the options is the response we should be having. I also don't think sending them back to a country were in all likelyhood they will die of hypothermia is what should be done - or for that matter sending them all the way back home, were they are likely to die - or join up with terrorist forces in an attempt to not die themselves. When the enemy's recruitment essentially boils down to "Help us or die" we should not punish those who run away, especially when it comes to people who are doctors, engineers or other highly educated individuals, but anyone who actually does run should be helped, not sent back to be recruited.

There's always option 4.

4. Go through the legal channels to properly enter a country instead of engaging in activities that paints refugees as border hopping, people smuggling criminals. Cause it's not going to be a good country for refugees if criminals are the one coming in.

[bledgor]

Of course you can. You stop lending to them. Watch them crash and burn and pick up the pieces.

Minus the part where the US crashing and burning would bring the whole world down with it...

[jackofwind]

Of course you can. You stop lending to them. Watch them crash and burn and pick up the pieces.

Not giving them more money isn't the same thing as collecting the money you're owed.

[araine]

Russia is not a safe country for many of the people from Syria since Putin and Assad are buddies and are on the same side in this conflict. this can really backfire on Norway in the longrun

[MMKing]

Here's a situation for you:
Your country is bombed to shit, crazy goverment on one side, crazy fanatics on the other, half your family is dead, some are injuried.

Option 1) Join a side, fight, probably die, probably rest of your family dies.

Option 2) Get your family on this tiny boat, cross an ocean in said tiny boat which will probably be filled up to 3-4x capacity by peoplesmugglers, possibly die/get lost at sea.

Option 3) Cross some countries by land, use a loophole in a law to get to a country that is supposedly good to refugees. Its still cold as fuck, still dangeorus, but you're on land the whole trip, and you will probably make it allright.

Now I'm not saying the refugee stream isn't a huge challenge, and it needs to be dealt with. I don't think blaming people for the inconvience of "lawyering their way through a border" when these were the options is the response we should be having. I also don't think sending them back to a country were in all likelyhood they will die of hypothermia is what should be done - or for that matter sending them all the way back home, were they are likely to die - or join up with terrorist forces in an attempt to not die themselves. When the enemy's recruitment essentially boils down to "Help us or die" we should not punish those who run away, especially when it comes to people who are doctors, engineers or other highly educated individuals, but anyone who actually does run should be helped, not sent back to be recruited.

The ''refugees'' are economic immigrants from neighboring countries posing as Syrians because they know Western governments are friendly towards them with the civil war in mind. Only a fraction of the immigrants are actually fleeing from the civil war.

[Dextroden]

Russia is not a safe country for many of the people from Syria since Putin and Assad are buddies and are on the same side in this conflict. this can really backfire on Norway in the longrun

But it's safe enough to use as a launching point into Norway. Obvs.

[Cybran]

Minus the part where the US crashing and burning would bring the whole world down with it...

Will have to wait a bit and see how it goes down.

[Deleted]

There's always option 4.

4. Go through the legal channels to properly enter a country instead of engaging in activities that paints refugees as border hopping, people smuggling criminals. Cause it's not going to be a good country for refugees if criminals are the one coming in.

And how are you going to get out of your country, when the only way out is through people smugglers? Where are you going to go? What are you going to do when you get there? Answer these questions, off the top of your head without using the internet - cause your house might have been bombed, power cut and no way to connect to anything to find out the proper way of doing anything. In my opinion not helping people who are obviously desperate and willing to uproot their entire life for the chance of finding a peaceful place to live, because they did something bureaucratically dubious when trying to find that place is inhuman.
As long as once they appear in that place they do everything right, follow the rules they are told, submit forms, give information required, go to classes and whatever else is required of them - and they are informed of what they need to do. If they do engage in criminal activities and break the law wherever they go - then send them back. Beyond that, give them a human chance to succeed and find somewhere to live in peace.

To me the idea that its fine to kill another human being in self defense can be acceptable, but running to save your life (and possibly your entire families lives) from a situation in which you are incredibly likely to die in, is unacceptable if you cross a border not even illegally - but using a loophole, is ludicrous.