Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[brunnor]

Today build:


Well, that buff to VotTW is indeed huge, finally providing the large health pool dks need to handle damage.
But that increased cost to DS makes no sense. It's already weak as it is, I wonder what drove them to increase the cost without compesating the heal.

It's a high level change, just like the one that hit DH's today. DS heals us for 2m+ a lot of time in heroic/mythic raiding. They need us to not be able to spam heal ourselves forever really. But it is a high end only change, this is a straight nerf to all non-mythic raiding DKs.

[Deleted]

It will still be of use for mythic dungeons too, anywhere we take big damage, DS is useful

[Highwhale]

I'm didn't understand - how we regen our runes now? Stupid cap haste?

[Philondra]

I'm didn't understand - how we regen our runes now? Stupid cap haste?

I'm not exactly sure if this is what you're asking, but yes--haste affects rune regeneration.

[Deleted]

It's a high level change, just like the one that hit DH's today. DS heals us for 2m+ a lot of time in heroic/mythic raiding. They need us to not be able to spam heal ourselves forever really. But it is a high end only change, this is a straight nerf to all non-mythic raiding DKs.

It must be because a 2 million DS heal would require something like having taken 8 million damage within the last 5 seconds post-Bone Shield (non-SD, SD value is around 7 million). Around 5 million with Vampiric Blood up but that would be with our major CD.

With the new projected health numbers, isn't that still nearly twice your health bar every 5 secs?

[Deleted]

Seeing as Kanj says you almost get 1shot when Bone Shield drops, I'd imagine you actually get hit that hard. Spectral Deflection has no ICD so it just chainprocs, means you're being hit for over 25% of your hp constantly.

[brunnor]

It must be because a 2 million DS heal would require something like having taken 8 million damage within the last 5 seconds post-Bone Shield (non-SD, SD value is around 7 million). Around 5 million with Vampiric Blood up but that would be with our major CD.

With the new projected health numbers, isn't that still nearly twice your health bar every 5 secs?

Whatever it may be, getting that much DS healing isn't that uncommon. Hell, some bosses hit for 2.5m. That is a melee swing every 2 seconds to get to that much damage done on average. That is pretty normal.

[Deleted]

Is there an up-to-date summary on talents and optimal Artifact progression? Mostly about tier 6 & 7 talents.

[Jellospally]

Is there an up-to-date summary on talents and optimal Artifact progression? Mostly about tier 6 & 7 talents.

Talents are basically 2-1(3 is not really good and unneeded)-1-2-1-3-3

As for artifact I really don't see a reason to go any other way than: https://gyazo.com/0651298df4e454c7643310b1419013bb to start off.

[Highwhale]

I'm not exactly sure if this is what you're asking, but yes--haste affects rune regeneration.

I mean now we use runes and get RP for it - then use RP on fillers to regen runes. How we regen runes in Legion since Dc is gone and our main self heal use RP.

[Hyve]

Loving the look of Death Knights in Legion. All I want for them to have now, is a slightly more powerful Death Strike. It seems a little too weak, but I would totally accept a buff to Death Strike, and a nerf to something else to compensate. Nothing too drastic, but Death Strike Shield doesn't seem to do anything at all right now.

The latest changes, giving them +50% Health (up from +25%) is a nice change considering what Death Knight Tanks are all about, but I'd rather it was +35% and Death Strike +20% effectiveness or something.

- - - Updated - - -

Whatever it may be, getting that much DS healing isn't that uncommon. Hell, some bosses hit for 2.5m. That is a melee swing every 2 seconds to get to that much damage done on average. That is pretty normal.

I guess the issue is that I've not seen enough specific data related to the mastery shield during fights, merely just tooltip analysis and basic dungeon testing. In a raiding situation, it could be viable as is.

[Philondra]

I mean now we use runes and get RP for it - then use RP on fillers to regen runes. How we regen runes in Legion since Dc is gone and our main self heal use RP.

We don't use RP to regen runes anymore. Blood Tap was made a talent (and not linked to RP usage) and the other two talents in that tier (conversion and empowerment) were given to frost and unholy. Our Rune Regen comes from haste from equipment and the 10% haste buff from keeping up Bone Shield.

The only other rune regeneration talent you can take is Soulgorge, a talent whose demerits we have discussed ad infinitum in this and other threads.

[Coffeh]

I was wondering if one of you beta Blood testers with the 'Blood Feast' artifact trait could answer a question. Does that 25% Heart Strike damage heal work on low-level (grey) mobs? I ask, because there's a lot of abilities where Blizzard has eliminated (or severely capped) the healing if the mob isn't at least green to you. For example, I tested on the ptr that blood plague heal doesn't heal (or heals for basically nothing) on grey mobs. And I'm just curious if the same holds true for that trait. It really only concerns me from the vantage point of soloing old raids.

[Deleted]

Bosses are always +3 though, are they not? Trash surely can't kill you?

[Highwhale]

Our Rune Regen comes from haste from equipment and the 10% haste buff from keeping up Bone Shield.

Hm since we have haste buff with bone shield i believe it pointless to cap haste. Besides its only favor to us by regen runes - no more benefits. Its better to have crit (parry and skeletal shattering what boost BS damage reduction) and maybe versa? Flat damage reduction is good for "fat" tanks + increased heal from DS. Plus we get leech so more damage you do more heal u get isn't it?

[Sinzaram]

Hm since we have haste buff with bone shield i believe it pointless to cap haste.

The problem with this statement is keeping up boneshield.
Its might be simple to spam marrowrend to keep it upto 10 stacks on normal content. But harder hitting content, you get encouraged to take Spectral Deflection which removed the ICD on Boneshield and boost it's DR. But removing the ICD means its gets eaten though so fast that you need more haste for more Marrowrends.

Boneshield haste buff isn't good if you're losing it constantly from taking enough damage to eat it and eat your runes in reapplying it.

Also add in that if you get more haste to keep boneshield up, then more runes can go into Heart Strike's Bonus Runic generation for more deathstrike mitigation.

[Dreglorg]

New poster, long time lurker.

So basicly close to all of our runes will be going into morrowrends during raid progress and while pushing high tier 5man?

I guess that also "dequalifies" Rune tap from being picked and makes foul Bulwark the best choice?

With the nerf to DS will progress see any use of "Mark of Blood" now that previous statement also "dequalifies" tombstone?

The cost increase to DS should make Ossuary even better, so this becomes staple for 3rd tier?

This also makes bloodworms the only viable point for 1st tier aswell?

this should make skill tree something like :

1
3
1
1 or 2
1
3
1 or 2 or 3 (uncertain)

[Milocow]

New poster, long time lurker.

So basicly close to all of our runes will be going into morrowrends during raid progress and while pushing high tier 5man?

I guess that also "dequalifies" Rune tap from being picked and makes foul Bulwark the best choice?

With the nerf to DS will progress see any use of "Mark of Blood" now that previous statement also "dequalifies" tombstone?

The cost increase to DS should make Ossuary even better, so this becomes staple for 3rd tier?

This also makes bloodworms the only viable point for 1st tier aswell?

this should make skill tree something like :

1
3
1
1 or 2
1
3
1 or 2 or 3 (uncertain)

2
1 or 3
1
2
1 or 2
1 or 3
2 or 3

[Nayami]

So is Blooddrinker still not allowing for spells to be cast while it's channelling? Does it have any uses?

Also, how is blood worm proc rate? I assume it's pretty low since it only counts white attack and it's rng on top of rng (chance on crit).

[Kapaya]

1
3
1
1 or 2
1
3
1 or 2 or 3 (uncertain)

2
1 or 3, depends if dungeon or raid
1 or 3, depends on fight
2
1 for dungeons, 3 if boss fight doesn't require that often of a grip
2, 3 if there aint any hard hitting abilities and just smooth dmg on the boss.
1 for easy dungeons, 3 for the rest.