Old Gods vs Sargesas/Burning Legion

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's because neither cthun nor yogg were at full strength. They would have easily taken them out. And as said before its not a hyperbole they've also taken out a titan as well.

Learn your god damn lore, Cthun was fully free and empowered, and yogg had broken free through all but one restraint.

[Zulkhan]

Sorry but old gods are all pathetic. There is a reason a single lesser titan was able to beat c'thun in a double KO

Don't forget Y'Shaarj roflrekted by mogu and mind you, before they got all the interesting things for which the Zandalari cared to give a damn about helping them (the power of Ra-Den stolen by Lei Shen, the flesh-shaping magic ecc.)

Really, I think that has been the lowest point of Old God lore and what really made them look weak (unless Y'Shaarj itself wasn't especially weak and all its power about influencing people's emotions, shit that clearly didn't work against an army of emotionless stone robots and got accordingly stomped).

- - - Updated - - -

NZoth hiding is fanon

Pantheon titans couldnt defeat N'Zoth - is canon

Still, "couldn't defeat" can literally mean anything. If N'zoth was powerful enough to turn Titans in its bitches now Azeroth would be an Old God wreck.

[vilememory]

Threads like these are pointless, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Lore is such a fucking joke now it doesn't matter what you think or how you piece it together it will all be wrecked with one little tweet. One little errant quip or quote and it is all fucking destroyed. Remember when the Old Gods were giant bad asses? When it was the mysterious five, but nope turns out they are all bitches. Titans slaughtered Old Gods like they were flies. Legion is the biggest threat! They can only die truly in the Nether! Oh wait we might change our mind on this one. So yeah after Legion we will have Old Gods again going ha ha we were bluffing we are amazing and super tough! Except the demons have been merged with the Scourge! Undead demons, soulless abominations! No wait! THEY HAVE SOULS! NO THEY DON'T! WHO KNOWS WE CHANGE OUR MINDS SO MUCH YOU WILL NEVER GET COHERENT LORE! WAIT UNTIL WE START RET CONNING WARCRAFT RTS GAMES!

[dholland662]

I have numerous issues with the Old Gods as villains, mostly from a narrative stand point. To summarize... Sargeras and the Burning Legion seem more appropriate as ultimate adversaries since they were present in the Lore for much longer whereas the OG were added later by artistic fiat.

And Sarg and BL are also directly responsible for the events of the rts games and that to me means they are more integral to the dna of the Warcraft universe. So I suspect Blizzard favors them in the end. Which is what matters, who Blizzard is willing to bend the rules for.

The main piece of evidence given that the Old Gods are stronger is a statement that they could defeat Sargeras. However this is a collective statement. That they all could defeat him together.

I suspect, since he is shown destroying entire worlds with his sword in the Legion announcement, that he is stronger than any one of them.

It's also worth noting that the Titans, based on the lore behind Algalon and Halls of Stone could have destroyed the Old Gods but were unable to because "muh morality" as it would doom the fledgling planet. And Algalon had access to Titan weaponry that could destroy the whole planet so they didnt think that dealing with the Old Gods when they got out would be a problem.

It also fits with the necrophotic parasites/antithesis to the Titans dynamic well. The Titans create, the Old Gods corrupt, Sargeras destroys.

And frankly, being able to somewhat scientifically classify the Old Gods as parasites kinda deflates their presence. As does defeating their manifestations in raids. I realize that it isn't the true them but it still undermines their presence in the story, at least for me.

I also think Old God fans make a lot of less substantiated claims about how the Old Gods are 'older than the universe' and other things

[Friendlyimmolation]

I realize that it isn't the true them but it still undermines their presence in the story, at least for me.

actually it was "them" that we fought in the raids, both cthun and yogg are dead dead

[dholland662]

actually it was "them" that we fought in the raids, both cthun and yogg are dead dead

even better

[want my Slimjim]

How do we know the planet that Sargeras sliced in half would be something that destroys azeroth? For all we know it could have been a dwarf planet the size of Ceres.

[Nanaboostme]

Blizzard Writers are more powerful since they decide both Old gods and Burning Legion's fate

[Rathbourne]

How do we know the planet that Sargeras sliced in half would be something that destroys azeroth? For all we know it could have been a dwarf planet the size of Ceres.

Its still a fucking planet !! It still shows that Sargeras is vastly superior to any Old God.Blizzard lore devs said at Blizzcon that Old Gods could not defeat Sargeras,that Sargeras is the BIG BAD,that the whole scene was the just Old Gods daydreaming and being pompous,it was HYPERBOLE,exxagerated.

IF N'ZOTH WAS STRONGER THAN THE TITANS HOW DID THE TITANS WIN THE WAR ????????? The only logical conclusion is that N'zoth couldn't be defeated because he never showed his face,he was in hiding;LURKING.

Deathwing was Nzoth's servant and he almost blew up the world.You do know that even an Ordinary Eredar Lord under Sargeras could easily blow up planets ?You do know that the only reason the Legion has not destroyed Azeroth is because there is something special about this planet,something Sargeras wants,something Blizzard has not revealed yet?

Dayum! Old God fanboys are snatching at straws.Its like refusing to believe Boromir ever died in the FotR.Your basically contradicting the author of the story,which in this case is Blizzard.

[Deleted]

9 pages and the thread title still hasn't been fixed

oh Darsithis where art thou?

'Sargesas'

[killwithpwr]

9 pages and the thread title still hasn't been fixed

oh Darsithis where art thou?

'Sargesas'

I suggest you fix your signature... It's obvious that OP has revealed the real name of "Sargesas"

[Aleksej89]

From wikipedia:
"in the novel, "The Sundering" , it is hinted that the Old Gods may be more powerful than the Titans, including Sargeras even.
It is said that they are extremely powerful and that the combined might of many Titans are required to subdue them.
It is also stated that if they are freed, even Sargeras will plead for the peace of death.
This is further supported by their statement that little effort is needed to destroy Sargeras and turn his Burning Legion into their minions."

Blizzcon 2014 tried to do some more lore mutilations since they want to pave the way for legion themed expansions, by baselessly beefing up sargeras/BLegion in comparison to Old Gods.

As stated many times, Titans are just "flesh/metal" and blood/oil.
They have life and they have death, a beginning and an end.
They are very powerful but are still bound by the same concepts of life and death.

Old gods, as stated many times by various monsters in WoW, are "outside the cycle".
They do not live and they do not die, at least not in any way that other beings do.
You can kill their body but that obviously does not end their existence, and it can probably come back from god knows where.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Old gods, as stated many times by various monsters in WoW, are "outside the cycle".
They do not live and they do not die, at least not in any way that other beings do.
You can kill their body but that obviously does not end their existence, and it can probably come back from god knows where.

except no, blizzard stated that many old gods were killed by the titans and that we perma killed cthun/ yogg and Ysharraj was mostly killed by mogu.

[Aquamonkey]

From wikipedia:
"in the novel, "The Sundering" , it is hinted that the Old Gods may be more powerful than the Titans, including Sargeras even.
It is said that they are extremely powerful and that the combined might of many Titans are required to subdue them.
It is also stated that if they are freed, even Sargeras will plead for the peace of death.
This is further supported by their statement that little effort is needed to destroy Sargeras and turn his Burning Legion into their minions."

Blizzcon 2014 tried to do some more lore mutilations since they want to pave the way for legion themed expansions, by baselessly beefing up sargeras/BLegion in comparison to Old Gods.

They didn't have to. Krasus didn't know WTF he was talking about in that book. Pmuch everything he said about the OGs was wrong.

The titans can and have killed a lot of OGs. It doesn't even take titans to do it; their minions and mortals can. The titans struggled because they chose not to use lethal force. Also

As stated many times, Titans are just "flesh/metal" and blood/oil.
They have life and they have death, a beginning and an end.
They are very powerful but are still bound by the same concepts of life and death.

Didn't stop them from beating the Old Gods. There is not a single instance where OGs have won an encounter with the titans.

Old gods, as stated many times by various monsters in WoW, are "outside the cycle".
They do not live and they do not die, at least not in any way that other beings do.

I like how one monster saying it once turned into "many times by various monsters."

You can kill their body but that obviously does not end their existence, and it can probably come back from god knows where.

Every mortal has this same trait, it's not special or unique to the Old Gods.

[JTHMRulez1]

Sargeras/Burning Legion >>>>>>>>> level 60 heroes that beat the crap out of C'Thun.

There you go.

...

This is actually off-topic. But. Shouldn't you stop linking to Loreology twitter since it no longer exist?

[Qualia]

Blizzcon 2014 tried to do some more lore mutilations since they want to pave the way for legion themed expansions, by baselessly beefing up sargeras/BLegion in comparison to Old Gods.[/I]

One of the general rules in regards to lore aspect of things - be it games or books - was that the last information stated is the canonical one, anything stated before that and conflict with it would no longer be true unless stated otherwise by an official source. Regardless of Blizzard's intention or how you think about their statement, what was stated in Blizzcon 2014 was canon until Blizzard said otherwise. All of your information about Old Gods that you put in your post are no longer true, at best something from an unreliable narrator (an Old Gods follower - those aren't known for always being correct). The Old Gods can and have been killed as people have said and put quotes from Blizzard posters many many times before - like it or not, it is canon.

(plus the fact that you are still using Wowwiki is kinda telling, hasn't everyone changed to Wowpedia since ages ago?)

[Zulkhan]

I like how one monster saying it once turned into "many times by various monsters."

But if you kill said monster 1000 times and respawns every single one of those times, isn't like 1000 monsters said it?

[Wilfire]

N'Zoth doesn't need to be more powerful than Sargeras or the Legion to be a grievous threat. N'Zoth has already demonstrated that he is far above the average Warcraft villain (and that includes Sargeras) when it comes to intelligence.

[Friendlyimmolation]

N'Zoth doesn't need to be more powerful than Sargeras or the Legion to be a grievous threat. N'Zoth has already demonstrated that he is far above the average Warcraft villain (and that includes Sargeras) when it comes to intelligence.

how exactly has N'zoth demonstrated his superior intelligence anywhere above Sarg? A cockroach hiding from a human doesn't make the cockroach smarter

[Shampro]

N'Zoth doesn't need to be more powerful than Sargeras or the Legion to be a grievous threat. N'Zoth has already demonstrated that he is far above the average Warcraft villain (and that includes Sargeras) when it comes to intelligence.

Sargeras fooled one of the most if not the most powerful mortal mage in existance (Aegwyn) into thinking that he was defeated by her, when in reality he wanted her to ''beat him'' in order to infiltrate her body, waiting for fucking years until she gave birth and took over his son into order to bring upon the biggest threat Azeroth has seen at the time. Using tools (the Orcs), that didn't even require the Legion.

I can give a lot more examples if you'd like.