Trans people without surgery can compete in the Olympics

[Saverem]

Unpopular view incoming but I personally feel that transmen and transwomen should be recognised as those genders and not considered legally the same as born men and women. Situations like this only reaffirm my opinion.

I'm with you. Imagine finding out 4 dates in the person you've been dating, kissing, and fucking for the past few weeks was really born as the other gender.

That would piss me off to no end.

"So that's why you didn't want me to go down on you!?"

[Kujako]

I'm frankly shocked this has gone onto the second page without a Futurama reference...

[Saverem]

The competitive advantage that men have over women would be the effects of testosterone. Both women and men have this hormone, but men have it in greater amounts. The fact that men would need to be below a certain testosterone level to compete would make it fair. By all competitive view points, they would be equal to those who were born with the body of a female.

This is kind of like balancing in wow. It'll determine on where they set the testosterone bar so to speak.

Then they would have to be within that testosterone level for X number of years (Certified doctors would be able to calculate the time needed). No point in doing all of your training and muscle gaining while a man and then getting your testosterone down 2 months before the event and devastating the competition. Even then, men and women have different bone structure and center of gravity (among other things) that could give either of them an advantage in certain situations. Still wouldn't be 100% fair. (ie, women's lower center of gravity gives them an advantage in gymnastics where as men's broader shoulders give them more reach in a boxing match, etc)

- - - Updated - - -

I'm frankly shocked this has gone onto the second page without a Futurama reference...

I mentioned it on my post!

[Rooflesstoofless]

Robonia is going to win so many medals!

EDIT: I'm late to the party.

I'm wondering how someone can be pre-op and have testosterone levels low enough to compete.

[Kujako]

I'm wondering how someone can be pre-op and have testosterone levels low enough to compete.

Because taking hormone adjusting drugs comes before the whole wang chopping part.

[infinitemeridian]

Women and men are not the same. We are a sexually dimorphic species. No amount of feel-good campaigns, hormones, and surgery can change that.

More testosterone can only do so much. These men have had years and years to build up muscle and bone density, it doesn't just evaporate when you apply hormones, let alone the fact that doing that anyways is very unhealthy.

Trans people will never be the opposite gender. This is a fact of reality. That isn't to say we shouldn't treat them as human beings and try to help them, but ignoring reality does not help them.

[Ryme]

Feels strange to me, there's a clear disparity in athletic ability levels between the genders. With that in mind, I worry this will be hard to impossible to keep fair.

[Katchii]

trans women will have to be below a testosterone threshold in order to qualify.

Not the point.

Males who transition into females are still structurally and physically as capable as a male.

There's a reason the male world records are better than the female records in the sports that have separate competitions. Now there will be "male" athletes in the "female" categories beating all of the... (fucking hate using this word)... cis females and the "females" who compete in the "male" categories just won't be able to compete at that level.

[Deleted]

This is so tolerant

[Rooflesstoofless]

I look forward to seeing her tits.

[Deleted]

Not how it works really. You can't change bone structure and such with hormones.

Lot of ignorance here by people who don't really know shit about anything, there are innumerable different circumstances that make this whole point mute.

What if you take hormones at a very young age, what if you have a naturally feminine bone structure?

Men and women both make testosterone and estrogen before any outside hormones apply in a 70/30% balance, regulated by their genetic code.

There is 3 things that define men and women besides genitalia, the genetic sex chromozone code (xx/xy/other-mutation)

There are three brain types, Female, Male and Neutral(which most people have)

And hormones.


A mother could be birthing a girl with a vagina, XX code and a female type brain, yet undergo a huge imbalance in hormones and gain lots of testosterone due to stress (as I said women make it naturally) and this could force the fetus to develop a penis yet with all the other female traits.

Someone like this would grow up and develop totally female, except with a penis, even to the point of also having ovaries, not even needing any hormone therapy.

It could be only 1 one these things and so hormone therapy may be needed and ect.

To the guy that said "men and women will never be the opposite gender and this is reality" doesn't know shit about reality and has a very uneducated view of reality, to the point he said "gender" and not sex (gender just means what you ID as, which they already do)

The only thing that seperates men and women truly besides genitalia is hormones and the genetic code merely regulates that balance as I said above, as to what a female and male brain is, is complicated, as its been shown men and women with the opposite type brain arn't transgender in cases and ect.

Women don't have some magical sparkly pink flesh, its just hormones, its not some kind of female/male soul, to say they will "NEVER" be that is a really uneducated view of biology as the fact is, yes men and women are different, but its by a very slim margin and a mere slip of hormones can completely change your body and mind, and it can happen NATURALLY not from hormone therapy.

Transexualism is a very natural part of nature, there are species in this world that are born without even having a sex and can then change to one later in their life cycle, and change again later on, there are those who are complete hermaphrodites and not one gender at all, this is their natural state, jelly fish are fucking literally immortal for god sakes.

Next time do some research before you claim with certaintly what reality is.

[Deleted]

Lot of ignorance here by people who don't really know shit about anything, there are innumerable different circumstances that make this whole point mute.

What if you take hormones at a very young age, what if you have a naturally feminine bone structure?

Men and women both make testosterone and estrogen before any outside hormones apply in a 70/30% balance, regulated by their genetic code.

There is 3 things that define men and women besides genitalia, the genetic sex chromozone code (xx/xy/other-mutation)

There are three brain types, Female, Male and Neutral(which most people have)

And hormones.


A mother could be birthing a girl with a vagina, XX code and a female type brain, yet undergo a huge imbalance in hormones and gain lots of testosterone due to stress (as I said women make it naturally) and this could force the fetus to develop a penis yet with all the other female traits.

Someone like this would grow up and develop totally female, except with a penis, even to the point of also having ovaries, not even needing any hormone therapy.

It could be only 1 one these things and so hormone therapy may be needed and ect.

To the guy that said "men and women will never be the opposite gender and this is reality" doesn't know shit about reality and has a very uneducated view of reality, to the point he said "gender" and not sex (gender just means what you ID as, which they already do)

The only thing that seperates men and women truly besides genitalia is hormones and the genetic code merely regulates that balance as I said above, as to what a female and male brain is, is complicated, as its been shown men and women with the opposite type brain arn't transgender in cases and ect.

Women don't have some magical sparkly pink flesh, its just hormones, its not some kind of female/male soul, to say they will "NEVER" be that is a really uneducated view of biology as the fact is, yes men and women are different, but its by a very slim margin and a mere slip of hormones can completely change your body and mind, and it can happen NATURALLY not from hormone therapy.

Transexualism is a very natural part of nature, there are species in this world that are born without even having a sex and can then change to one later in their life cycle, and change again later on, there are those who are complete hermaphrodites and not one gender at all, this is their natural state, jelly fish are fucking literally immortal for god sakes.

Next time do some research before you claim with certaintly what reality is.

Humans aren't jellyfish, and our genders are pretty much fixed. Yes, there are abnormalities, but that should not be made into a rule for sports, advocating this is lunacy.

[Deleted]

Because being exposed to testosterone throughout your formative years won't give you any lasting advantage.

[Luxxor]

Sandwich making.

Sport wise? Nothing. Men are simply physically superior.

Misogynist patriarchy confirmed. Your anti female comments amount to rape.

[infinitemeridian]

Lot of ignorance here by people who don't really know shit about anything, there are innumerable different circumstances that make this whole point mute.

What if you take hormones at a very young age, what if you have a naturally feminine bone structure?

Men and women both make testosterone and estrogen before any outside hormones apply in a 70/30% balance, regulated by their genetic code.

There is 3 things that define men and women besides genitalia, the genetic sex chromozone code (xx/xy/other-mutation)

There are three brain types, Female, Male and Neutral(which most people have)

And hormones.


A mother could be birthing a girl with a vagina, XX code and a female type brain, yet undergo a huge imbalance in hormones and gain lots of testosterone due to stress (as I said women make it naturally) and this could force the fetus to develop a penis yet with all the other female traits.

Someone like this would grow up and develop totally female, except with a penis, even to the point of also having ovaries, not even needing any hormone therapy.

It could be only 1 one these things and so hormone therapy may be needed and ect.

To the guy that said "men and women will never be the opposite gender and this is reality" doesn't know shit about reality and has a very uneducated view of reality, to the point he said "gender" and not sex (gender just means what you ID as, which they already do)

The only thing that seperates men and women truly besides genitalia is hormones and the genetic code merely regulates that balance as I said above, as to what a female and male brain is, is complicated, as its been shown men and women with the opposite type brain arn't transgender in cases and ect.

Women don't have some magical sparkly pink flesh, its just hormones, its not some kind of female/male soul, to say they will "NEVER" be that is a really uneducated view of biology as the fact is, yes men and women are different, but its by a very slim margin and a mere slip of hormones can completely change your body and mind, and it can happen NATURALLY not from hormone therapy.

Transexualism is a very natural part of nature, there are species in this world that are born without even having a sex and can then change to one later in their life cycle, and change again later on, there are those who are complete hermaphrodites and not one gender at all, this is their natural state, jelly fish are fucking literally immortal for god sakes.

Next time do some research before you claim with certaintly what reality is.

You're the one who is ignorant. There is a difference between someone who has been taking hormones their whole life and raised as a woman and someone who starts after puberty.

Gender and sex are the same thing. Gender/sex roles are mostly sociological, but gender/sex are biological. THere have been studies done to prove this. Both boy and girls preferred stereotypical masculine/feminine objects before the socialization stage, and this was also observed across cultures and even in monkeys.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...rned-or-innate

All of your scenarios are what-ifs. On average, most men are much stronger than women. Again, we are a sexually-dimporphic species. Yes, transexualism happens, but it is extremely rare. Men and women both think and behave differently. There isn't anything wrong with that, and I'm certainly not pushing for things like "go back to the kitchen" or anything, but to ignore basic biology is ignorant.

[Tziva]

We don't allow threads on gender identity / transgenderism here.