Do people not understand Vikings?

[Adam Jensen]

I refuse to stop believing in the horned helmets dammit. I want my Norwegian ancestors to look like Skyrim Nords.

[Deleted]

Considering they'd speak some sort of ancient Nordic mix of Icelandic/Swedish/Norwegian/Danish, and write with runes, most likely not.

[Deleted]

probably not I don't speak Swedish or Danish or Norwegian or whatever

[Deleted]

Honestly, the "problem" is that no one really cares. History was always one of those subjects that people in school hardly cared about, but these days people don't even know what's fact or fiction.

People and cultures from human history make great themes for Netflix series, thats about it these days.

[Zenotetsuken]

I am proud of my Norse blood. I like to think that if I lived in those times I would have been a Viking as well.

Side note: I always love hearing the whole "White people in America are descendants of slave owners!" because it makes me go "Yeah I probably am, but the only slaves my ancestors owned were other Anglo Saxons, so what's your point?"

[Kolvarg]

The vikings didn't have a very advanced/lasting writing system, while the europeans they attacked had.

The misconception about vikings is largely due to this: most of the information passed through until recently was based on the accounts of their enemies, so it's quite ok to assume it not only was not completly the truth in many cases, as it was also a big generalization.

Just like a lot of the tribes Rome conquered are often thought as just savages living in mud, because we only know how the romans describe them, not how they described themselves.

I believe I saw in a documentary once that middle-eastern people, for instance, have far different ancient descriptions of vikings, as they met them mostly as traders and at most as mercenary fighters, not as raiders and looters.

But in recent years we've had more widespread archaelogic information that teaches us a bit more about them, even though because of not having much written accounts it will always be half guesswork.

[Faenskap]

Well, Vikings were much more than pirates, they were collectively a group of nordic people that focused on gaining resources, wealth and land. I believe they were actually driven out of Scandinavia by extremely bad winter conditions and settled and conquered along Iceland, Greenland, the British Isles and Canada. So they were more colonialists and traders than pirates in that respects. I'll try to confirm this of course, because again I'm going off of memory strictly.

We can take a look at Norwegian vikings. Norway is a pretty big country (despite every Norwegian referring to it as "our little country"...) but doesn't have that much farmland. A growing population meant a higher demand for food, and they searched other areas to settle in, like what we now call United Kingdom, Ireland, Faroe Islands and Greenland. Others went away as they didn't want to be ruled by the king or to escape punishment.

They were more than just "rape and plunder", a recently discovered viking grave contained an Arab ring (if memory serves), so yeh, they traded a lot.

Dublin was a huge slave center ran by Vikings.

There were a lot of ethnic Vikings living around York, I think. The King in the region told all the Yorkers to rise up and slaughter the Vikings and they did.

Some minstrel is reported to have said that when he was captured by Vikings he was raped 20 times before he lost sight of the coast.

Vikings are said to have established York (Jorvik) as well as Belfast. Or was it Dublin? I can't remember. In Shetland, Orkneys and Isle of Man you have viking (norse) names surviving to this day.

The rape story I've never heard though.


They did fail sometimes, like the vikings in Greenland. Apperantly, they ran into natives, who tried to teach them how to survive, but the vikings gave zero fucks. The Greenlandic settlement was shortlived.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes.

My book pulls from viking mythology so I had to learn a lot. And yeah, people are educat r by Hollywood and Hollywood does a lot of stupid shit cause it's more flashy.

Now excuse me while I put on my Horned helmet, drink wine from a skull and hip fire a 50cal with sniper accuracy from my dragon ship. Like a Viking.

They didn't use horned helmets German opera started that whole trend

[Deleted]

Granted we've moved away from the horned helmet myths (though to be fair, horned helmets are pretty cool) about vikings, but I feel there's a lot people don't understand vikings that well (I wouldn't even claim I know that much about them) and exactly who they were.

Most vikings of course primarily are known for trading. While stereotypically vikings pillaged and ransacked monasteries and villages (granted they did do sometimes), it was much easier to trade or extort those groups and many others.

My favorite thing about vikings personally is that they seemed nearly unbiased, I mean they could work with a kingdom one day and then conquer it another. They were also the first Europeans to reach the Americas and likely took some Amerindian women back home with them.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/human...iceland-020316

http://news.discovery.com/history/us...ican-woman.htm

So do you think vikings are still misunderstood by much of the general public?

Well on a side you're right, on the other you're wrong. Ehm... i mean, it's true; the vikings were mostly known for trading, EXCEPT they were the vikings XD
You see, when one talks about vikings, actually doesn't refer to a people, but to a "class": the Vikings (from Vik, that usually is translated as bay: the guys from the bay) WERE the pirates, raiders and bad guys (and sometimes mercenaries, for example the Varangian guard in Costantinople), it's not a stereotype, it was their job and "way of life". One should refer to those peoples the vikings come from as Norse (dunno if there is a better specific term), the Vikings were a part of those populations coming from the territories of modern Sweden, Norway and Denmark (yep, not only from the scandinavian peninsula). Another part of the same norse people were the trader of course, which went on many routes, comprised the ones opened by the raiders, with different ships named Knarr (where the normal Drakkar or Langskip was the war-pirating ship) that was bulkier, without dragon head and made to ship more weight.

I heard that after all vikings were more violent than other european people in that age of violence (relatively, it wasn't actually a huge battle royale with swords and forks like people like to believe), but... probably in a way they were, as they made a huge impression on populations who were already used to war, and because the usual viking raid wasn't a war expedition, it was a ... raid (lol captain obvious, dum duum!). People in the village prepared and recruited others for a year just to go somewhere afar take a lot of money and possibly slaves and come home, without being provoked.
As for the reason they started the raids (in fact, seems it was quite a abrupt thing, even if they continued the tradition their saxon migration era granddads already had of going around filling sacks with others' belongings) and their great season of trading, yeah among the most credited theories there is the worsening of continental climate, there were some others, i guess the truth is in the middle ... ? -coughs- I dunno about the Amerindian women they took home, honestly i see it ... not impossible, eh, but very unlikely. I think when they made contact with the skraelings, with Leif and bro's expedition, most of em never got back in Europe (for what i remember, the "base" that survived more was on Greenland, the northamerican colony-ies stood up very few, then Leif bro used a indian as bow practice target and they killed all the settlers)

So, forgive me for the convoluted and hypertextual (lol) post, but i think Norsemen are misunderstood by much general public, proper Vikings, even if fascinating today, deserved the times they broke their butts ^^

[Noradin]

My point being that vikings were more than bloodthirsty warriors, they were farmers, and sailors, explorers, traders and settlers.

Sure, but those stayed home. All you ever met or heared of back then were the bloodthirsty killers who burned down cities like Treves (which was the largest city noth of the alps), something even the Huns didn't do (they sacked it, but left the city standing).
With those kinds of 'diplomats' can you fault others for remembering them badly?

[Faenskap]

The vikings didn't have a very advanced/lasting writing system, while the europeans they attacked had.

The misconception about vikings is largely due to this: most of the information passed through until recently was based on the accounts of their enemies, so it's quite ok to assume it not only was not completly the truth in many cases, as it was also a big generalization.

Just like a lot of the tribes Rome conquered are often thought as just savages living in mud, because we only know how the romans describe them, not how they described themselves.

I believe I saw in a documentary once that middle-eastern people, for instance, have far different ancient descriptions of vikings, as they met them mostly as traders and at most as mercenary fighters, not as raiders and looters.

But in recent years we've had more widespread archaelogic information that teaches us a bit more about them, even though because of not having much written accounts it will always be half guesswork.

The problem wasn't neccessairly the writing system itself, but the society. Vikings had a huge regard for those who could recite by heart - very few actually bothered to learn how to write. As far as Norway was concerned, this was stupid, as when the plague hit (1348 or so, and long after the viking age), most of those who could write died Or actually, it warrants a sad face. Imagine how much closer we could have been to Icelandic and Faroese. Instead we have some Danish/German bastard language

Hljóðs bið ek allar
helgar kindir,
meiri ok minni
mǫgo Heimdalar;
viltu at ek, Valfǫðr,
vel fyrtelja
forn spjoll fira,
þau er fremst um man

This is "the Volve's prophecy", how the Vikings believed the world was created and how their gods lived. It's a poem, and different from the christian one, which is more like a long story. However.... it has 66 stances. A poem because that's easier to remember. But what kind of insane person remembers 66 stances?!

[Ryme]

Vikings weren't really called Vikings, Viking was just the verb for raiding iirc, most were just called northmen, pagans or Danes. They were primarily traders, most worshipped Odin and Thor though not nearly as strongly as Christianity at the time and believed that fate was everything, decided by three spinners who sat at the base of Yggdrasil and wove the world's destiny.

This faith in destiny lead them to hold little ties to things, show a decreased sense of fear and higher ambition to 'live in the moment' since your destiny was already predetermined.

During the late 800s they invaded and conquered most of England, however King Alfred managed to rally the remaining Englishmen in Wessex and fought them back from the brink of destruction. His victory here was instrumental in uniting the Kingdom's into a single entity known as Englaland.

So, thanks guys! You indirectly helped form our nation

[Deleted]

Sure, but those stayed home. All you ever met or heared of back then were the bloodthirsty killers who burned down cities like Treves (which was the largest city noth of the alps), something even the Huns didn't do (they sacked it, but left the city standing).
With those kinds of 'diplomats' can you fault others for remembering them badly?

The Mongols were worse, they not only destroyed cities, they also salted the land so nothing could grow there. Imagine what would have happened if the Mongols had possessed nukes lol.

[Archon14]

Viking history is pretty boring imo, not sure that many people are interested enough to go beyond the basic image of a viking with horns in his helmet.

Of course it's boring for you, that's why you think that those viking helmets with horns were actually worn by Vikings.

[Kjanaprik]

The problem wasn't neccessairly the writing system itself, but the society. Vikings had a huge regard for those who could recite by heart - very few actually bothered to learn how to write. As far as Norway was concerned, this was stupid, as when the plague hit (1348 or so, and long after the viking age), most of those who could write died Or actually, it warrants a sad face. Imagine how much closer we could have been to Icelandic and Faroese. Instead we have some Danish/German bastard language

....

This is "the Volva's prophecy", how the Vikings believed the world was created and how their gods lived. It's a poem, and different from the christian one, which is more like a long story. However.... it has 66 stances. A poem because that's easier to remember. But what kind of insane person remembers 66 stances?!

I always like how similar it is to modern Icelandic.

The stanza from Hauksbók instead of the Codex Regius version you posted:

Hljóðs bið ég allar                          
helgar kindir,
Meiri og minni
Mögu heimdallar;
Viltu að ég, Valföður,
vel fyrtelja
forn spjöll fira
þau er fremst um man

Everyone that knows Icelandic should be able to read that and understand completely, except for 3 words.

Helgar kindir is mannkindir today(demeaning) or mannkyn(neutral).
Fyrtelja is the danish word "Fortælle" and means to recite/to tell someone something.
fira = Men, no connection to modern language afaik.
Mögu is on a gray area, means sons, rarely used but I've heard older people from more isolated towns use it.