how Sartharion made Wotlk

[Bigbazz]

Thats because in those days if you wanted to get people into raiding there were multiple instances increasing in difficulty. Now we have multiple difficulties to an instance instead.



If it was such a walk in the park for seasoned raiders why wasn't everyone on a black or plagued proto drake?

To be fair the mount achievement system was new to the game then, killing the bosses in strange ways was something new to many people and we were too busy with other stuff that we weren't even thinking about it at the time.

It was not actually hard to get the T7 achievement drakes though, many of the achievements were nothing special and the main stumbling block for most people was simply not really being aware of the achievement at all or not being able to pull off Immortal.. Clearing naxx was easy, clearing naxx without anyone dying was something that a single mistake from a single individual would make impossible and I'm fairly certain a lot of guilds had a couple of players who would make this impossible.

Some of the achievements were stupid too, like undermanning bosses as an achievement resulting in purposely having to sit players for a raid. We first caught on and made an effort in my guild for this in Ulduar and pulled it off in time only to find Blizzard were no longer removing them anyway, which was slightly annoying at the time especially given that the Ulduar meta was a lot more challenging than the Naxx.

[purebalance]

There were no real challenges for raiding in T7. It was honestly a pretty dark time for anybody who was actually decent at the game. About the only thing players did which was challenging were speed runs and Immortal/Undying/Glory runs. Yeah, it was pretty PuG friendly but only because there was so little content that was actually difficult. I don't think Blizzard will ever make that mistake again, it was a very, very boring tier.

Immortal is the only reason I didn't get my black Someone dumb died every week and then the final week a warrior let commanding shout fall off during Gluth which caused him to murder people due to due the bug with the hp loss.

[Relapses]

Immortal is the only reason I didn't get my black Someone dumb died every week and then the final week a warrior let commanding shout fall off during Gluth which caused him to murder people due to due the bug with the hp loss.

Yeah, I think everybody has their own Immortal grief story. Ours was saving Thadd for last and having somebody fail the jump.

[Nitros14]

Yeah, I think everybody has their own Immortal grief story. Ours was saving Thadd for last and having somebody fail the jump.

We got it twice, but we had some fascinating losses.

We had a ret paladin pull aggro on the pull on Patchwerk and die. I think 90% of the losses were a warrior getting chained by Kel'Thuzad and one shotting someone.

[Deleted]

We got it twice, but we had some fascinating losses.

We had a ret paladin pull aggro on the pull on Patchwerk and die. I think 90% of the losses were a warrior getting chained by Kel'Thuzad and one shotting someone.

Thaddius and Instructor was our Bane I never manage to get done HM achievement because we clear this wing first and when we got to thaddius or Gluth someone off ppl who we boost dies...
What actually miss me from WotLK is these Immortal like achievements.That was the real fun to keep raiding w/o a single person to die.They should keep a achievement like this for Myth raids now (and only for their TR)

[Deleted]

We got it twice, but we had some fascinating losses.

We had a ret paladin pull aggro on the pull on Patchwerk and die. I think 90% of the losses were a warrior getting chained by Kel'Thuzad and one shotting someone.

My guild failed the achievement in week 3 (nearly world 4th) at 5% on Kel'thuzad. The GM dc'd and one of the other officers said "don't worry, I'll GS him!". GM gets a void zone and dies. Priest was distracted by his girlfriend. Priest quit the game. GM nearly did.

We ended up getting it 7 or 8 weeks later and then again a few weeks after that. We had to resort to ridiculous shit like having people just sit out P2 Thaddius if they were even a little unsure of their internet or themselves. Immortal/Undying are two of the worst achievements ever added to the game.

[Relapses]

My guild failed the achievement in week 3 (nearly world 4th) at 5% on Kel'thuzad. The GM dc'd and one of the other officers said "don't worry, I'll GS him!". GM gets a void zone and dies. Priest was distracted by his girlfriend. Priest quit the game. GM nearly did.

We ended up getting it 7 or 8 weeks later and then again a few weeks after that. We had to resort to ridiculous shit like having people just sit out P2 Thaddius if they were even a little unsure of their internet or themselves. Immortal/Undying are two of the worst achievements ever added to the game.

I think the problem is mostly that in concept Immortal runs are a great idea, but in execution they unfairly punish players for things often out of their control.

[Moggie]

I think the problem is mostly that in concept Immortal runs are a great idea, but in execution they unfairly punish players for things often out of their control.

I wouldn't say they unfairly punish players, nor is most anything out of anybody's control. (tbh, most of the time when someone claims they lagged, usually means not paying attention even for a few seconds). However, the nature of players vs. trying to get those immortality-type achievements made for an extremely toxic atmosphere most of the time. I always felt horrible for that one player of the week who, for one reason or another died to some silly thing you know they normally do not. My guild way back then and a few others who were trying to get them had nonstop drama every week because of it. The stress was just annoyingly bad. The nerd points later on for downing a boss first try (sinestra and i'm sure others I cannot remember) made more sense. Still stressful, but doesn't burden one person each week with a guild-wide fail.

[Spotnick]

We got it twice, but we had some fascinating losses.

We had a ret paladin pull aggro on the pull on Patchwerk and die. I think 90% of the losses were a warrior getting chained by Kel'Thuzad and one shotting someone.

I got Immortal after the drake was removed, but for us, it was mostly the mind controls on KT that caused idiotic wipes.. thank god they made Saph/KT available without the other wings at some point so you could do them first and not spend 2h wasting your time.

It's a shame Blizzard removed those kind of a achieves.. it gave us "something to do" instead of keeping us locked into the same instance for 20-25 weeks to farm a stupid mount. I still miss not doing the one from Ulduar (Conqueror of Ulduar)

[Khorm]

Having the Black Protodrake is awesome. Whenever you're camping Pandaria world bosses and all the mount collectors get out their cool mounts to show off all you have to do is get on ol' Blackie and it's game over.

There needs to be more mounts like that where you can only get it while the tier is current.

[Deleted]

If it was such a walk in the park for seasoned raiders why wasn't everyone on a black or plagued proto drake?

The mere fact that there is an achievement which demands you that nobody dies during the entire friggin 15 boss raid proves that Nax 10 and 25 were incredibly easy. It would be unthinkable today for heroic modes.

Sartharion 3D was the only hard encounter of T7. And even then pretty much everybody on my server was using the zerg method, which makes the fight trivial.

[Pua]

Sartharion 3D was the only hard encounter of T7. And even then pretty much everybody on my server was using the zerg method, which makes the fight trivial.

Post 3.1, yeah. Sartharion in 3.0, as he was intended to be fought, was as hard as raiding ever needed to be.

[Super Kami Dende]

I'd say Entry Level raids for Wrath would go like this 0DSarth->Naxx10->Naxx25=1DSarth->2DSarth->Malygos->3DSarth.

[Deleted]

Poor Archavon, he was so easy that people don't even bother mentioning him anymore .

[Super Kami Dende]

Poor Archavon, he was so easy that people don't even bother mentioning him anymore .

HOLY SHIT, I completely forgot about Winterspring bosses. Then again he literally was the easiest boss of t7. could have 15 of the 25 man group AFK and still down him.

[Pua]

I'd say Entry Level raids for Wrath would go like this 0DSarth->Naxx10->Naxx25=1DSarth->2DSarth->Malygos->3DSarth.

I think Malygos was easier than two drakes, but it depends on your group.

[Super Kami Dende]

I think Malygos was easier than two drakes, but it depends on your group.

True, We generally killed Shadron since his 100% fire damage was brutal, Vesp and Tene were much simpler for 2D.

I think Maly always felt a bit harder due to many people having FPS issues when the floor fell and not understanding the Drake part of the fight as well. Since the fight threw in a Z-Axis which just blows some peoples minds.

[Relapses]

Since the fight threw in a Z-Axis which just blows some peoples minds.

This was the same reason The Oculus is pretty much universally regarded as one of the worst dungeons designed by Blizzard.

[Bigbazz]

When I first did Occulus I thought it was just awesome, and I didn't really do any pugging at the time and just played within my circle of friends and guildies.. I think it wasn't until group finder later in the expansion that Occulus got the hate. It was a really fast dungeon to complete if you knew what you were doing, one of the fastest of all the dungeons infact.

[Nitros14]

Post 3.1, yeah. Sartharion in 3.0, as he was intended to be fought, was as hard as raiding ever needed to be.

Sartharion in 3.0 was no harder than the first few fights of mythic Hellfire Citadel with no rings. I did it. Bit of a healing check but otherwise just move side to side every 40 seconds and don't get hit by void zones.

The thing I miss most about wotlk is Ulduar and the Yogg-Saron encounter

Just theme wise. The lore spots are great.