Proof of the Gun show loophole

[Orbitus]

He did all that in Indiana, which is not one of those 17 states you linked, and was the state that Obama specifically mentioned as being one of the problem states for the gun show loophole. You'd know this if you watched the video.

I'm pro gun control, but I don't think you really refuted Stephen Crowder at all. His video evidence of dealers at gun shows in Indiana refusing to sell him guns is a much more compelling argument than your ad hominem or your wikipedia link.

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What does that have to do with gun shows in America?

No, Indiana is one of the states that don't have background checks for PRIVATE SALES. That one guy that asked for a NICS check was probably a licensed arms dealer. We do not know because Crowder conveniently cut the video to further his narrative.

[Citizen T]

We don't know - the video is anecdotal at worse, and incomplete at best.

1. Pro-Gun control never said fully automatic guns were available.
2. Pro-Gun control never said EVERY vendor at a gun show let you buy without checks - the issue is private vendors and consistency of checks.
3. Pro-Gun control never said every gun show was a problem, matter of fact the inconstancy was a big issue.
4. By Pro-Gun control - I'm talking main stream folk wanting tighter gun regulations, not nutters thinking they should be banned.

Main issue - the video is meaningless, as most of these 'expose' style videos are. One could just as easily make one showing how every gun show allows every weapon to be bought.

I'm pretty sure you would have to consider the current President as part of that "Pro-Gun control".

Easier to buy a gun than a vegetable
Easier to buy a gun than a book



This kind of shows that even those that don't come out and say they want to ban guns, a significant number of these "main stream folk" are still nutters when it comes to guns.

[Orbitus]

People that actually understand this issue know that there's no Federal law prohibiting a private individual from renting a booth at a gun show and selling firearms without a background check. Whether or not you want to call that a "loophole" is debatable. It's simply how the law is written, and the vast majority of Americans believe it should change.

Well when a guy admits he has sold 600 AR-15s in a week long gun show, then he wouldn't be what I call a "private seller". Because no one could buy that many guns at one time, at least not without getting some attention from the ATF and FBI.

Then you have this video here:

6 minutes of a guy buying a gun without even showing an ID. Even though there is federal laws that say that you cannot buy a gun from a gun show without showing at least an ID showing you are from the same state as where the gun show is being held.

[Oviorasi]

Video has a link of Hillary Bernie and a few news reporters talking about fully automatic guns being sold...

If those are your crazies, then I don't wanna see the basement dewellin extremists opinions.

Anti-gun people love to purposely confuse semi-automatic and [fully] automatic rifles for their ignorant audiences

[ellieg]

Anti-gun people love to purposely confuse semi-automatic and [fully] automatic rifles for their ignorant audiences

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Is your argument that because some people break the law, that we need more laws?

This is my biggest problem. Like at least learn what youre talking about and be honest with it. "assault" rifle is probably my biggest pet peeve. They say Assault rifle and most people hear automatic rifle and assume its a bullet hose that fires fast as hell and is just a killing machine. Most people just don't know the difference.

[Ghostpanther]

Yep. Besides, closing a loop hole is not going to make a dent in the real reasons behind gun violence in some spots. No law is ever any more effective than the wiliness to enforce them.

[Citizen T]

Well when a guy admits he has sold 600 AR-15s in a week long gun show, then he wouldn't be what I call a "private seller". Because no one could buy that many guns at one time, at least not without getting some attention from the ATF and FBI.

Then you have this video here:

6 minutes of a guy buying a gun without even showing an ID. Even though there is federal laws that say that you cannot buy a gun from a gun show without showing at least an ID showing you are from the same state as where the gun show is being held.

There is no federal law stating that an ID is required to be shown. It is law that you can transfer only to someone who resides within the same state as you. While it is splitting hairs, not requiring ID is not illegal but is stupid. If the person is from out of state and the sale is investigated you will almost certainly be going to jail/prison.

[TZucchini]

Actually there is if you're making a business out of it, whether that law is enforced is another issue.

And if you're not making a business out of it, there is no federal law. That's the "loophole" people are upset about.

[ellieg]

And if you're not making a business out of it, there is no federal law. That's the "loophole" people are upset about.

Im ok with this. If my friend has a gun that he no longer wants, and I do, I should just be able to hand him money and get the gun. It should be as simple as that.

[Ornerybear]

why did we need proof of this? I'm pretty sure we all knew this was happening, you just have a group of people who think its their right to subvert laws.

[Citizen T]

And if you're not making a business out of it, there is no federal law. That's the "loophole" people are upset about.

The law states " a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms." So if they have truly sold 600 firearms in a week, then they are breaking the law and can be prosecuted. Guess what? Criminals break laws.....

[TZucchini]

Im ok with this. If my friend has a gun that he no longer wants, and I do, I should just be able to hand him money and get the gun. It should be as simple as that.

And other people (the vast majority actually) believe that deadly weapons should be regulated to a greater extent than that. Especially considering the significant association between permissive laws and firearm deaths.

[ellieg]

And other people (the vast majority actually) believe that deadly weapons should be regulated to a greater extent than that. Especially considering the significant association between permissive laws and firearm deaths.

That's fine. Idk if id agree with vast majority though. Im still going to campaign against that. The law we have now seems to be fine to me. But just like that 600 gun sale guy, criminals seem to break this law anyway. Not sure what a law stopping this one thing is going to accomplish if people are ignoring it anyway and its not being enforced.

[fengosa]

I didnt see any of the vendors selling ice cream either. The only logical conclusion is theres no such thing as ice cream in the US.

[Deathcries]

And other people (the vast majority actually) believe that deadly weapons should be regulated to a greater extent than that. Especially considering the significant association between permissive laws and firearm deaths.

Do you even 2nd amendment bro? A well regulated (in the Oxford dictionary in that time meant skilled or proficient Edward Gibbon's said a well regulated legion was most successful) militia (citizen) being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

There is no buts after shall not be infringed. Pro gun control/anti gunners can suck my left but and make the right one jealous. If you want them dont be a fucking beta/coward and stop putting others lives in danger for your ideology. Be a man and Molan Labe mother fucker.

[Roostercogburn]

To all the people moving the goal posts and talking about private sales.

How you gonna enforce that? How you gonna look into someone's home and see whether they are selling a gun illegally or gifting it legally?

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why did we need proof of this? I'm pretty sure we all knew this was happening, you just have a group of people who think its their right to subvert laws.

Another who did not watch video.

No wonder it's so easy to get gun grabbers to believe shit. Just pander to their bias and they don't even need evidence.

[Deathcries]

To all the people moving the goal posts and talking about private sales.

How you gonna enforce that? How you gonna look into someone's home and see whether they are selling a gun illegally or gifting it legally?

How do you prevent our own government from selling to the Mexican cartel, and basically doing the same thing?

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To all the people moving the goal posts and talking about private sales.

How you gonna enforce that? How you gonna look into someone's home and see whether they are selling a gun illegally or gifting it legally?

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Another who did not watch video.

No wonder it's so easy to get gun grabbers to believe shit. Just pander to their bias and they don't even need evidence.

Reminds me of that song. Feelings.

[Roostercogburn]

How do you prevent our own government from selling to the Mexican cartel, and basically doing the same thing?

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Reminds me of that song. Feelings.

1. You answer first. Shouldn't answer a question with a question. Especially if it's an irrelevant question.
2. I honestly don't care. I'm talking about lies gun grabbers tell to try and restrict guns from law abiding citizens. What the government does with guns is a relevant as what England does with toilet paper.

It's not even the same topic and a horrid attempt at deflecting.

[Deathcries]

1. You answer first. Shouldn't answer a question with a question. Especially if it's an irrelevant question.
2. I honestly don't care. I'm talking about lies gun grabbers tell to try and restrict guns from law abiding citizens. What the government does with guns is a relevant as what England does with toilet paper.

It's not even the same topic and a horrid attempt at deflecting.

I'm not a gun grabber. I'm probably the most pro gun rights advocate you'll see on this board. Here in America I believe if you can afford it, you should be able to buy it. If that happened I would have an m1abhrams sitting in my drive way.

[Ghostpanther]

That's fine. Idk if id agree with vast majority though. Im still going to campaign against that. The law we have now seems to be fine to me. But just like that 600 gun sale guy, criminals seem to break this law anyway. Not sure what a law stopping this one thing is going to accomplish if people are ignoring it anyway and its not being enforced.

It is not a vast majority. But it is a majority want stronger background checks to become law. However it also depends on the question and the mood of the country when such polls are taken. Not too long ago however, the polls showed most wanted the gun control laws to stay as they are. But I venture to say most Americans at the present want gun background check loopholes eliminated and better mental health checks.