Shadowburn owns Chaos Bolt in Legion

[Felpacino]

Edit 2: I did PvP calculations in the #14th post and PvE calculations in the #72nd post.

If you don't know about the new Shadowburn's potential, let me tell you:


-1 Shadowburn costs 1 Soul Shard, 1 Chaos Bolt costs 2 Soul Shards. We'll start combat with only 1 Soul Shard in Legion, in Alpha at least. Max Soul Shards will be 5.


-2 Shadowburns hit for %680 spell dmg and 1 Chaos Bolt hits for %275 spell dmg with a guaranteed crit. Since we don't have "Dark Soul" anymore, CB won't be overpowered as much as before. Btw, CB is getting buffed by %20.


-Chaos Bolt's cast time will be 3 secs, but a PvP talent will make CB's cast time 2.5 secs. With "Backdraft" talent and "Improved Backdraft" talent, the cast time will be reduced by half, it means 1.25 secs cast time. With your base Haste(Averagely %7 right now for Destro in WoD) and the haste PvP talent(Increases %7 by %15=8,05), the cast time will be 1,15 secs. Pretty slick. However, you may want to pick the crit talent instead of haste, because %1,05 haste sucks.


-Average Crit chance for Destro is %17. The crit damage will probably stay %150 in PvP. So, 1 Chaos Bolt's dmg will be %482 spell dmg, without any buffs.


-2 Shadowburns without critting hits for %680, 1 Chaos Bolt hits for %482. Note that SB is instant. %198 more dmg with SB.


-Even if CB's cast time will be 1,15 secs, the GCD won't be that low. When you finish casting your CB, you gotta wait for the gap between 1,15 secs and GCD. So, the only moment CB hits more is at the first CB hit and before the 2nd SB comes. What I mean is, when you land 1 Chaos Bolt, it hits for %482 dmg. 1 SB hits for %340. Even if CB wins at the first hit, 1 SB would already hit the target before CB hits. By the time you start the casting your 2nd Chaos Bolt, already 1 SB would be landed and the other SB would be on the way. When you finish the 2nd CB, 2nd SB hit already and the 3rd SB will be on the way. SB costs lower than CB and a SB goes faster than a Chaos Bolt. Shadowburn wins here.


-The only time you can freecast will be with Mortal Coil, since Shadowfury is dead, you would wanna spend that time with Channel Demonfire. If you wanna cast CB at that moment, you would land max 2 CBs + 1 Conf in 3 secs = %1454,06 spell dmg with Mana Tap and Eradication. 1 Channel Demonfire with Mana Tap and without Eradication hits for = %1,725. Btw, you keep all of your Soul Shards with Channel Demonfire.


-With Shadowburn, you won't need Incinerate too. Incinerate won't give you any Soul Shards. Since you didn't pick Backdraft, the cast time will be higher. I'll give you an example of an opener in Legion = Mana Tap + Havoc + Conf + Immolate + Mortal Coil + Channel Demonfire + Havoc + SB + SB + SB + Conf + SB + SB. There is no guarantee that you'll do this opening, because of the CCs. After this, if you couldn't kill them, you'll cast Soul Harvest and continue spamming SB. Your filler will be Drain Life, not Incinerate, because you probably won't be at %100 all the time. If you want, cast Incinerate, but Incinerate is so worthless in Legion. I'd prefer Immolate and Channel Demonfire as fillers if you don't need heals. Havoc, Immo, CD, Fear and SB will surely keep you busy while you wait for Conf's cooldown to end.


-If you pick Eradication talent and decide to spam SBs after you land 1 CB, it's still not worth to cast 1 CB. You will be able to cast 3 SBs+1 Conf in 6 secs or 1 more SB if we add GCD reduction with haste. 4 SBs with %20 buff = 4,8 SBs. In the same period of time, you would cast 6 SBs+1 Conf.

Without SB crits and buffs

1 CB+4,8 SBs > 6 SBs
(%2114 spell dmg) (%2040 spell dmg)

It means you would sacrifice Soul Harvest or Cataclysm for %74 spell dmg. Shadowburn just destroys CB in both PvP and PvE.




TL : DR = You won't need Chaos Bolt in Legion. Read above to see how.



Edit: I was talking about PvP, but I think SB will even hit more than CB in raids too, because of the fewer Soul Shard cost. Only in the long run tho, since crit dmg is %200 in PvE. This will work in Instances too, due to 1 Soul Shard to cast and refunds 2 Soul Shards. Spamming SBs, gg.

[Soisoisoi]

Nothing is anywhere close to being balanced yet, especially numbers. Also, Shadowburn is an "execute", so it should act as one since it should only be used at certain points. You also have to remember Blizz want Warriors to be the execute-class, so I doubt the damage will be high either way.

[Felpacino]

Nothing is anywhere close to being balanced yet, especially numbers. Also, Shadowburn is an "execute", so it should act as one since it should only be used at certain points. You also have to remember Blizz want Warriors to be the execute-class, so I doubt the damage will be high either way.

Shadowburn isn't execute anymore: http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#wn

Warriors' "Execute" is execute: http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/5308

Numbers look pretty nice actually, yet we still need more mobility or Howl of Terror as a baseline or smth.

[Soisoisoi]

Shadowburn isn't execute anymore: http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#wn

Warriors' "Execute" is execute: http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/5308

Numbers look pretty nice actually, yet we still need more mobility or Howl of Terror as a baseline or smth.

I know it isn't a requirement for SB to be used below x% but it will be intended to be used like that, or rather like Soul Reaper for the Shards. Outside of heavy movement I doubt it will take the place of CB, since like I said, they want Warrior's to have the only super high damage execute. Was a blue post about it a while ago when they removed stuff like Kill Shot, Hammer of Wrath, etc.

[Felpacino]

I know it isn't a requirement for SB to be used below x% but it will be intended to be used like that, or rather like Soul Reaper for the Shards. Outside of heavy movement I doubt it will take the place of CB, since like I said, they want Warrior's to have the only super high damage execute. Was a blue post about it a while ago when they removed stuff like Kill Shot, Hammer of Wrath, etc.

As I know, Shadowburn wasn't an execute in Vanilla. It had a CD tho. Correct me if I'm wrong. If will they give SB a CD in Legion, like they did with Haunt, R.I.P. Destro. Every single Warlock will be either play Demo or reroll, since Demo has more dots than Aff, lol. Demo has Corruption, Doom, more pets(I see them as dots), Shadowflame if picked. Aff has 4 dots, including Seed of Corruption, but who the hell uses that in duels or in 2v2, 3v3 arenas?

Warriors' Execute and Spriests' Shadow Word: Death are baselines, while Shadowburn is a talent. The other executes are getting removed.

SB will take the place of CB, if not nerfed, probably will be.

[Xandy]

Demo has Corruption

Incorrect, Doom will be Demo's DoT

[Felpacino]

Incorrect, Doom will be Demo's DoT

Any source?

[Harsesis]

Please keep in mind that your are relying on tooltips for specs that haven't even been implemented yet.

[Felpacino]

Please keep in mind that your are relying on tooltips for specs that haven't even been implemented yet.

Warriors' Execute has %20 health thingy in it, Shadowburn has not. I'm both relying and hoping on that. If it is an execute, then making it a talent doesn't make sense. Well, the other abilities made into talents too, but Shadowburn was an execute. Since only Warrs and Spriests keep their executes, Shadowburn can be exceptional in this situation.

[Kirroth]

Please keep in mind that your are relying on tooltips for specs that haven't even been implemented yet.

Nothing is anywhere close to being balanced yet, especially numbers.

What they said. The Devs do the numbers pass at the end of the Beta when they're mostly sure they have a finalized rotation to balance around. Until then you have too many abilities being redesigned or scrapped entirely to make numbers balancing worthwhile. So making an issue of the numbers for a spec that hasn't even been officially enabled for Alpha testing is kind of silly.

[Fallensaint]

Yes, the baseline Chaos Bolt is weaker than Shadow Burn, but that largely ignores the synergy available to Chaos Bolt. Backdraft, Reverse Entropy, Eradication, and artifact traits push Chaos Bolt well ahead of Shadowburn.

Shadowburn's main benefits are that it is uninterruptible, can be used while moving, allows for finer resource control, and has a shard refund on execute.

[bio347]

Even ignoring the part where the spec isn't done (or even playable), the artifact has two talents that affect Chaos Bolt (Chaotic Instability and Soulsnatcher) and so does the talent tree (Reverse Entropy and Eradication). As Shadowburn doesn't currently replace CB, you can't assume that those affects would also modify it. CB also benefits massively from the new version of Backdraft, talent though it may be.

[Bryntrollian]

I think you're going a little too far on a spec that isn't even available for testing yet

[Felpacino]

Even ignoring the part where the spec isn't done (or even playable), the artifact has two talents that affect Chaos Bolt (Chaotic Instability and Soulsnatcher) and so does the talent tree (Reverse Entropy and Eradication). As Shadowburn doesn't currently replace CB, you can't assume that those affects would also modify it. CB also benefits massively from the new version of Backdraft, talent though it may be.

Yes, the baseline Chaos Bolt is weaker than Shadow Burn, but that largely ignores the synergy available to Chaos Bolt. Backdraft, Reverse Entropy, Eradication, and artifact traits push Chaos Bolt well ahead of Shadowburn.

Shadowburn's main benefits are that it is uninterruptible, can be used while moving, allows for finer resource control, and has a shard refund on execute.

Even with those talents, 1 CB's dmg will increase to %665,16 from %482. Also, Confs dmg will increase by %20 too, which is nice.

1 CB = %665,16 spell dmg (After a CB hit)
1 Conf = %367,2 spell dmg (After a CB hit)
2 SBs = %680 spell dmg without crits
1 Channel Demonfire = %1500 spell dmg

You'll probably spend the time with your 3 secs Mortal Coil with Channel Demonfire, because it hits more. Also, you keep your Soul Shards. In the same time you can land 2 CBs. 1500>1330.

However, with Reverse Entropy your mana won't run out. If you pick that, then you sacrifice Mana Tap. %15 dmg buff for 20 secs is better, yet it's situational.

You can land 3 CBs+2 Confs while bursting and the 1st Conf and CB wouldn't get buffed by Eradication. If 2 SSs get refunded, you would be able to cast the 4th CB. That makes 4 CBs+2 Confs. No one can guarantee that you can land CBs without Mortal Coil. If you can't kill them after this, you'll have to wait for Conf CD to end and Immolate SS procs.

In the same time, you can land 1 CDF+4 SBs. You'll cast CDF on the MC'd targets and enjoy the insta SBs. CB wins here if the SB rotation's user is extremely unlucky.

%3395,04 spell dmg > %2860 spell dmg(Without crits)

We are talking about 15 hits of CDF and 4 SBs. Considering the average crit chance is %17 in WoD of Destro, you'll get crits and SB's rotation will pass CB's rotation's dmg. It will be almost equal with crits, SB will even pass CB.

Although, these are without Havocs. CB's burst will pass SB dmg, but with Havoc, you'll be able to cast much more SBs, while your additional Soul Shard won't be enough for an additional CB. Test it out. 5 SSs-2 CBs=1 SS+2 SS-1 CB=1 SS. Since you'd use a Conf in the beginning for the Backdraft and CB costs 2 SSs, your 1 SS will be useless without another Soul Shard. Unless you get a SS proc from Immolate.

Btw, you'll keep spamming Shadowburns, because you'll pick Soul Harvest talent over Eradication. Which makes you can cast 13 Shadowburns and 2 Confs+Soul Harvest in between, without adding CDF and Immo. Sounds so cool.

[Unknowndiv]

Why don't you multiply Chaosbolt's damage by 2 (always crits)?

[bio347]

Protip: If you're talking about PvP, you should probably say so somewhere within the title or first couple lines of your post. Because a lot of us here don't care about PvP at all, and are going to argue from a raid boss perspective which is completely different.

Yes, this is me admitting I didn't read the whole thing.

[Xandy]

Any source?

It's been in the Class Preview section of the official website for a while now, as well as the stickies on this forum.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/199...ock-11-10-2015

[Livevil]

Protip: If you're talking about PvP, you should probably say so somewhere within the title or first couple lines of your post. Because a lot of us here don't care about PvP at all, and are going to argue from a raid boss perspective which is completely different.

Yes, this is me admitting I didn't read the whole thing.

His 3rd paragraph mentions pvp talents, his 4th paragraph calculates dmg based off of pvp crit dmg.

[gez]

Protip: If you're talking about PvP, you should probably say so somewhere within the title or first couple lines of your post. Because a lot of us here don't care about PvP at all, and are going to argue from a raid boss perspective which is completely different.

Yes, this is me admitting I didn't read the whole thing.

pro tip, it does not matte where the fuck u test those spells the fact is that SB>CB by far #genius

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

And the warlock owns both of them.
Its really all a matter of perspective. Its important to keep that in mind in an Alpha.