Keep LFR out of Legion!

[Eapoe]

The game is not a fucking self-improvement class. Video games are considered by many to be bad habits by themselves. Especially for anyone who seems over-involved with them. It's a pointless argument since it presumes the game is supposed to be something which it is clearly not and never has been.

Not really where he was going with that. It's just like any episode on a sitcom teaching people that you can slack off and still come out okay in the end with no real consequence as long as you feel bad about it. We watch TV to be entertained, but that doesn't mean the values and idealogies do not run off while doing so. LFR while not a teaching mechanic, still puts in people's minds the idea that doing mechanics wrong is no big deal and offers little incentive to improve as a player.
Now, you can say you aren't playing to improve as a player, and that's okay. Maybe you log in and just like hitting buttons while fighting the big bads of the dungeon. That's fine, however, if you are someone interested in playing better and wanting to improve and enhance your playstyle, LFR does very little to help with that and in fact does quite the opposite. It gives people a false mentality that they are playing well and k ow what they are doing because things die.
As far as the phrases being made for it, let's face it, "looking for retards" could easily have been made up by a casual as much as a mythic raider. It got that term because you don't really have to have any idea how the fight works or even really pay attention to kill anything. Just look at LFR in Cata with Spine or Garalon, Amber Shaper, and Garrosh in MoP, fights where Blizzard decided to let players have some control over the fight and if done wrong would wipe the raid. LFR actually had some boss fights where 1 person could wipe everyone because they didn't know or care how the fight worked. These things (in addition to others) caused Blizzard to nerf LFR even more to make it even more accessible and easier for people to see content that it is a running joke among hardcore and casual players alike.

[Seefer]

Not really where he was going with that. It's just like any episode on a sitcom teaching people that you can slack off and still come out okay in the end with no real consequence as long as you feel bad about it. We watch TV to be entertained, but that doesn't mean the values and idealogies do not run off while doing so. LFR while not a teaching mechanic, still puts in people's minds the idea that doing mechanics wrong is no big deal and offers little incentive to improve as a player.
Now, you can say you aren't playing to improve as a player, and that's okay. Maybe you log in and just like hitting buttons while fighting the big bads of the dungeon. That's fine, however, if you are someone interested in playing better and wanting to improve and enhance your playstyle, LFR does very little to help with that and in fact does quite the opposite. It gives people a false mentality that they are playing well and k ow what they are doing because things die.
As far as the phrases being made for it, let's face it, "looking for retards" could easily have been made up by a casual as much as a mythic raider. It got that term because you don't really have to have any idea how the fight works or even really pay attention to kill anything. Just look at LFR in Cata with Spine or Garalon, Amber Shaper, and Garrosh in MoP, fights where Blizzard decided to let players have some control over the fight and if done wrong would wipe the raid. LFR actually had some boss fights where 1 person could wipe everyone because they didn't know or care how the fight worked. These things (in addition to others) caused Blizzard to nerf LFR even more to make it even more accessible and easier for people to see content that it is a running joke among hardcore and casual players alike.

This guy gets it, and video games are just like any other game in the world, if you want to go farther you have to get better! I am currently playing The Witcher 3.......do you think I can beat the game by just button mashing? Nope!

[grandgato]

This guy gets it, and video games are just like any other game in the world, if you want to go farther you have to get better! I am currently playing The Witcher 3.......do you think I can beat the game by just button mashing.

There is a super easy story mode that pretty much let's you do just that in witcher 3.

[Deadite]

This guy gets it, and video games are just like any other game in the world, if you want to go farther you have to get better! I am currently playing The Witcher 3.......do you think I can beat the game by just button mashing? Nope!

Yeah but if people do beat the game by button mashing would you want to stop them playing that game the way they want to? That is what this LFR hate boils down to. People are playing a video game differently from me!! GRRRRR!!

[Deleted]

Yeah but if people do beat the game by button mashing would you want to stop them playing that game the way they want to? That is what this LFR hate boils down to. People are playing a video game differently from me!! GRRRRR!!

look at it like this, you are playing a game, the difficulty is too much for you, you will turn it down, now you did it, are you going to turn it back up again? not really... Then, you beat the game! congrats, it was a fun game, now lets do it again on the hard setting i couldn't do before? Hmmm nah, *just stop here*

[Deadite]

look at it like this, you are playing a game, the difficulty is too much for you, you will turn it down, now you did it, are you going to turn it back up again? not really... Then, you beat the game! congrats, it was a fun game, now lets do it again on the hard setting i couldn't do before? Hmmm nah, *just stop here*

Traditionally organized raiding has never been popular. The vast majority of people who run LFR will never move up to the harder setting. Some guy running LFR isn't a lost raider. The whole reason they added LFR to the game was no bugger was seeing the raids they made. That is what people don't seem to grasp. They don't want to do normal raiding. Calling for the removal of LFR won't make them all run to your raiding guilds. They just won't raid again. Blizzard will be right back where they started.

[Deleted]

Traditionally organized raiding has never been popular. The vast majority of people who run LFR will never move up to the harder setting. Some guy running LFR isn't a lost raider. The whole reason they added LFR to the game was no bugger was seeing the raids they made. That is what people don't seem to grasp. They don't want to do normal raiding. Calling for the removal of LFR won't make them all run to your raiding guilds. They just won't raid again. Blizzard will be right back where they started.

you can't say traditional raiding did not work, the game had 12 million subs before LFR, there was much less people in them yes, but that was mostly due to restrictions set by other players trying to make pugs, the only other way was to get a guild and improve yourself. If you did not have time for it, you could do other fun things like farm for crafting or do Wintergrasp, some daileys, world pvp. It was pretty easy to get into an OS raid because it was so easy, but you did have to be a little bit social and ask for invites.

25 man raiding pugs was great fun because it offered higher loot than the 10 man, this was a little unfair because large guilds would be ontop, yet somehow it was working well.
The struggle to do well in the game ans actually see the raid using your own effort was very appealing to players

[Derpling]

I may re-sub after 5 years if LFR is removed.

Please explain, in detail, what removing LFR would do to improve your play experience that simply leaving the option there and not using it would not.

Any explanation that boils down to "I don't like other people getting to play in my sandbox" and "I get my life validation from having purple-colored items and being better than blue-clad plebes" doesn't count.

[MoanaLisa]

look at it like this, you are playing a game, the difficulty is too much for you, you will turn it down, now you did it, are you going to turn it back up again? not really... Then, you beat the game! congrats, it was a fun game, now lets do it again on the hard setting i couldn't do before? Hmmm nah, *just stop here*

What precisely is wrong with that?

[Deleted]

What precisely is wrong with that?

Nothing, for a single player RPG game

[Kallisto]

Nothing, for a single player RPG game

But logically and without emotional attachment answer why it is bad for an MMORPG

[Seefer]

Nothing, for a single player RPG game

Exactly what he said, but for an MMORPG? A lot, if you "beat the game" you are more likely to just leave which is bad for the company and bad for guilds who are looking for people, even if it isn't to raid.

[Glorious Leader]

There is a super easy story mode that pretty much let's you do just that in witcher 3.

And as far as I'm aware you don't get better rewards for higher difficulties

[Seefer]

And as far as I'm aware you don't get better rewards for higher difficulties

There will always be better rewards for more difficult things in an MMORPG, not in a single player game.

[Deleted]

But logically and without emotional attachment answer why it is bad for an MMORPG

WoD 'should' be the answer as to why its bad for the game, it just affect the community and the 'illusion' on your mind to continue playing, to get further

[Tuesdays]

I also hear they cause school shootings

A game is supposed to get harder and more challenging the further you get in it. Imagine how dull it would be otherwise! It would be like lfr. A argument or point isn't invalid when you simply can't argue against...

A game is supposed to be fun, challenge is subjective.

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There will always be better rewards for more difficult things in an MMORPG, not in a single player game.

Only reason the better rewards are there, is to keep the money flowing.

[Seefer]

Only reason the better rewards are there, is to keep the money flowing.

Yes but also to reward more difficult content.

[Deleted]

Only reason the better rewards are there, is to keep the money flowing.

Yes but also to reward more difficult content.

This used to be called "something to aspire to"

[Tuesdays]

Yes but also to reward more difficult content.

Difficult is subjective, there is always going to be someone who thinks 'x' difficulty is too easy, extra treadmill, better loot, more money. Blizzard makes more money giving people more options for endgame. Otherwise game is too easy/hard I quit.

However if Blizzard isn't careful and only makes heroic/mythic worth doing, the bottom 99% will drop out. Not everyone wants to be #1, some people just enjoy playing the game, but if they are ignored an shunned for it, it's bad for everyone.

I agree LFR is bad for the game, because at the very least it doesn't teach players anything, just allows them to loot, but it still has its place for people who may have limitation.

Just like any game, sooner, or later, if you keep trying you will win.

[Seefer]

Difficult is subjective, there is always going to be someone who thinks 'x' difficulty is too easy, extra treadmill, better loot, more money. Blizzard makes more money giving people more options for endgame. Otherwise game is too easy/hard I quit.

However if Blizzard isn't careful and only makes heroic/mythic worth doing, the bottom 99% will drop out. Not everyone wants to be #1, some people just enjoy playing the game, but if they are ignored an shunned for it, it's bad for everyone.

I agree LFR is bad for the game, because at the very least it doesn't teach players anything, just allows them to loot, but it still has its place for people who may have limitation.

Just like any game, sooner, or later, if you keep trying you will win.

Kinda the point, most people with LFR will not keep trying...........they "beat the game"