Keep LFR out of Legion!

[kary]

My post was in response to the OP, who didn't mention the issues with tuning but rather wanted LFR gone because he or she did not enjoy it, calling it toxic, unchallenging, and unenjoyable, and my point is essentially that who gives a shit if the OP doesen't enjoy LFR, if others do then that's absolutely fine.

The issues with the rewards are an entirely different thing however, it has to do with game balance and not removing a part of a game you don't enjoy that others do enjoy.

If the rewards from Raid Finder make all other content irelevant then that is something that needs to be fixed, I agree.

Which is why people want MoP lfr back. MoP lfr rewarded you way too well.

[mysticx]

Now change the rewards to be.. 620 and 625 from hfc lfr and it would be fine. This has always been the problem with lfr. Unlike the solo player games you linked in your video what lfr does is impact the entire community. It even goes so far as to effect the development of the game we were told no dungeons in mop because of lfr making them pointless...

Again people are not talking about removing a game mode but rather fitting it into its proper place in the progression path. Trying to dismiss arguments you can't refute doesn't actually prove them wrong. If you are playing for a story you are better served by a movie or a book regardless to the fact you purchased the product or not..

So you want to place LfR loot between normal and heroic 5-mans, but still claim that removing LfR isn't the intent? Don't make me laugh...

Difficulty (or lack thereof) aside, LfR has a week-long lockout, while heroics can be run once a day (more if you chain-spam LfD), making LfR-loot even worse (Tanaan and Ashran already have it beat, hence the queue-issues) would kill it off outright, but you said that killing LfR off wasn't your intention, so that's alright then. :P

[Deleted]

So you want to place LfR loot between normal and heroic 5-mans, but still claim that removing LfR isn't the intent? Don't make me laugh...

Difficulty (or lack thereof) aside, LfR has a week-long lockout, while heroics can be run once a day (more if you chain-spam LfD), making LfR-loot even worse (Tanaan and Ashran already have it beat, hence the queue-issues) would kill it off outright, but you said that killing LfR off wasn't your intention, so that's alright then. :P

Thats another issue, jumping into 3or 4 different difficulties in the same week. Loot is aweful in this expac

[Tuesdays]

Which is why people want MoP lfr back. MoP lfr rewarded you way too well.

So let me get this straight, you demand challenge right? Why do you care if someone else has good gear? How exactly does this change the game for you?

[Deleted]

I only use LFR if I want to, no matter if they are VP in there or not. Get yourself some self esteem and strength of will and you will see, it will not bother you anymore.

[Deleted]

Even Final Fantasy XIV is adding Raid Finder in the next patch. They already had Party Finder for 4 and 8 man groups, but not for 24 man raids.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...xxviii_summary

[Deleted]

Even Final Fantasy XIV is adding Raid Finder in the next patch. They already had Party Finder for 4 and 8 man groups, but not for 24 man raids.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...xxviii_summary

What? they already had LFR easy modes, they are doing it for savage/extreme as-well?
Maybe it will show the way to how blizz should do theirs, otherwise, more hate

[Osmeric]

When uludar came out I'm pretty sure that's all they released with that patch so people running out of things to do. It was only when TOC came there was things to do although I did not like them that much.
The drop of subs in cata was again most likely due to patches taking too long while lore was all dark and gloomy

Greg Street has pointed out that uptake of Ulduar was lousy. People didn't run out of things to do; people just didn't like Ulduar and its tuning. It was the least successful raid tier of Wrath.

This is why ToC was released so soon thereafter, and why it was easier.

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It really sounds like the person you are describing would be far better served by a book or a movie...

Blizzard would not be better served by that person reading a book or seeing a movie, however.

The chronic fear you are likely experiencing is that Blizzard will finally clue in that that sort of player is their primary audience, not you, and that bending over backwards to try to please players like Redtower has been a billion dollar mistake.

[Deleted]

So you want to place LfR loot between normal and heroic 5-mans, but still claim that removing LfR isn't the intent? Don't make me laugh...

Difficulty (or lack thereof) aside, LfR has a week-long lockout, while heroics can be run once a day (more if you chain-spam LfD), making LfR-loot even worse (Tanaan and Ashran already have it beat, hence the queue-issues) would kill it off outright, but you said that killing LfR off wasn't your intention, so that's alright then. :P

Take the loot lock off it then.. Tanaan isn't a good loot model either and I would like it changed as well. PvP is already being changed in legion. So yeah currently lfris the part that sticks out the most.

[Glorious Leader]

Which is why people want MoP lfr back. MoP lfr rewarded you way too well.

Its embracing stupidity like this which drove away millions. Here's a tip for Blizzard. People don't like being told they had it too good and they don't like having things taken away from them. They don't need wow and if you screw them over they will leave. MoP lfr did not reward too well. The rest of the game needed to reward a little bit better and jackass min max terribads who whined about being forced needed tk be ignored.

[manypillars]

When uludar came out I'm pretty sure that's all they released with that patch so people running out of things to do. It was only when TOC came there was things to do although I did not like them that much.

It wasn't. The ToC started in the Ulduar patch, providing a new daily quest hub where players began championing their factions and building the Colosseum. The dungeon and raid were added a patch later. You might remember having to go to Crystalsong Forest to gather wood and stone for the construction, quests that were removed when it was completed and the dungeon and raid opened. Goblins were in charge, so you were of course saving money by scavenging stone from the Night Elf ruins rather than quarrying it.

[thealmightymoo]

i think hardcore raiders just want to feel like special snowflakes. god forbid someone else does a raid amirite?

i do think, however that LFR has potential, it just doesnt have to be so omgfaceroll easy

[Eapoe]

i think hardcore raiders just want to feel like special snowflakes. god forbid someone else does a raid amirite?

i do think, however that LFR has potential, it just doesnt have to be so omgfaceroll easy

Lol...I love how this thread is already back to hardcore raiders feeling like special snowflakes. Not that many people care whether you do LFR or not, the raiding community just doesn't want to be forced into your content thru rewards like VP. The people complaining about LFR the most are actually the casuals who do it in the vein of "omg this is too easy" or "omg Blizz nerf this crap, it's taken us more than 10 attempts to kill a boss."
The people who make fun on LFR the most are in fact the people who do it more. I see more casuals and non-raiders in game complaining about it and calling it its oh so fun derogatory nicknames.
Casuals are wanting easier content and the same rewards for doing it, trying to state in horrible reasons why that should happen. Most hardcore posting in this thread are simply stating "rewards per content." The longer this thread goes the more it seems like casuals have issues with their own content being too easy or hard and bashing on hardcore raiders.

[Deleted]

I found this old post by GhostCrawler concerning raiding: http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/18/g...d-progression/

I was trying to find one when he said stuff mentioning something about LFR, and elitists etc, I'm sure it was during MoP. Anyway, if you look at these parts here, he says about:

• We think progression is the key to players having fun. When groups stop making progress, the members get frustrated.
• I don't think it strictly has to do with the flow of loot being shut off.
• If you complete the raid content very quickly and have Sinestra on farm and everyone has acquired their best in slot items, then you're probably ready to take a break from raiding.
• Raid encounters, to some extent, nerf themselves. This is because every week, the raid members acquire more and more gear.

So most the hate i think is coming from:

1. The difficulty
2. Speed of gear/progression
3. Being "finished" with the raid and having it on farm, thus feeling the need to take a break
4. The gear coming LFR nerfs the raid every week once release.
5. Just the fact there's nothing interesting to grind in WoD

Every player want progression and epics, once you feel you have the best you feel you can achieve, you will most likely stop playing, so essentially, its not a battle between raiders and casuals at all, its just a way to help the game prevent players getting bored and leaving, while also preventing the feeling of playing a single-player game, when it becomes too difficult, the community toxic players all show their colours.
Players who want to enjoy raiding, want to do so without putting up with assholes, if they are not kept under control, pugging and raiding in general becomes a real bad experience.

[Seefer]

i think hardcore raiders just want to feel like special snowflakes. god forbid someone else does a raid amirite?

i do think, however that LFR has potential, it just doesnt have to be so omgfaceroll easy

Yes it does, or people will cry their little eyes out............Look at MoP LFR.

[judgementofantonidas]

I see you missed the point of the video entirely.

The point was options, male on male action, in no way changes the way you enjoy the game, because it is an option that you do not have to use. You don't want anyone else to enjoy the game, unless they play the way you see fit.

Which is why they should remove gear from mythic, your goal is challenge, you only need gear to progress, they could simply buff you after every boss, just enough to make the next boss possible. Challenge is your reward.

A permanent character buff after the completion of each Mythic Raid Boss would actually be a very good idea. Rather than shinier gear, the hero, your character is made stronger in a way that those who have not risen to that level of challenge will not see. Very good suggestion.

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Then why the constant discussion regarding the removal of LFR or the removal of rewards from LFR or degrade it to the point that is useless to anyone running?

Seriously, you seems unable to discuss anything with anyone who disagree with you without throwing insults around.

It is already useless to anyone "running" it. The gear that it drops in no way competes with what you can get from Mythic dungeons, and Tanaan Jungle drops. The only thing LFR does convey is that warm fuzzy feeling of "look ma I is a raider too".

[Tuesdays]

A permanent character buff after the completion of each Mythic Raid Boss would actually be a very good idea. Rather than shinier gear, the hero, your character is made stronger in a way that those who have not risen to that level of challenge will not see. Very good suggestion.

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It is already useless to anyone "running" it. The gear that it drops in no way competes with what you can get from Mythic dungeons, and Tanaan Jungle drops. The only thing LFR does convey is that warm fuzzy feeling of "look ma I is a raider too".

I mean a buff to beat the next boss, not a buff that permanently makes your "hero" stronger than everyone else in all other aspects of the game. Though a portrait, since that is a thing now, it could be elitist bling fluff with some worthy information baked in.

I much rather gear be sort of a long drawn out journey, a little RNG, a little work, a little crafting ect.. Nothing that can be bought with a carry, just something that all players have to do, if they want gear.

[Sansnom]

Here is the issue as I see it
WoW is a rpg that uses gear as a progression system at level cap. The problem with lfr is that for is difficulty of 0.1 it gives rewards that are about a 6.

People like care way too much what others people are doing. The problem with LFR is that people like you cannot leave it alone and feels that you have a right to dictate how others should progress in the game.

This in turn quickly butchers most other content while at the same time over gearing players for content designed with them in mind. WoD is the best example of this actually... Invasions,treasure hunting, rares, dungeons, cm dailies, summoned bosses, and more all of them made irreverent with lfr. It is the only mode in the game that actively harms the rest of it by existing in its current state.

No. There were made irrelevant with raiding. People do stuff for gear and rewards.

Now change the rewards to be.. 620 and 625 from hfc lfr and it would be fine.

No. You know that if there are no meaningful rewards in the content, people would run it once and stop. This is true with any content. If the rewards is meaningless, people would not be interested.

Read what you said yourself, WoW is gear progression game. You are basically wanting to remove LFR as part of that progression, and thereby removing as of use.

That is the problem most players have with current lfr it isn't the mode itself it is how it warps the game around itself.

No. The problem is yours alone. If LFR is too low, which it is, the solution is to raise it. If LFR feels mandatory, then the solution is to have it share loot lock out. But it seems neither solution occurred to you or acceptable.

WoW is a mmo not a single player game. There is a right and wrong way to play it. How fun is soccer if someone picks up a ball and then a stick and start hitting people with it while screaming its my 15$?

People can play how they want. There is not a right way or a wrong way. That is just conceited arrogance.

Again people are not talking about removing a game mode but rather fitting it into its proper place in the progression path. Trying to dismiss arguments you can't refute doesn't actually prove them wrong. If you are playing for a story you are better served by a movie or a book regardless to the fact you purchased the product or not..

It has a place. It just not in the place you like.

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It is already useless to anyone "running" it. The gear that it drops in no way competes with what you can get from Mythic dungeons, and Tanaan Jungle drops. The only thing LFR does convey is that warm fuzzy feeling of "look ma I is a raider too".

Then leave it alone.

[Jtbrig7390]

Seems like you're ignoring all opinions that are opposite of yours which is non constructively debating.

Pot meet kettle.

[Deleted]

People like care way too much what others people are doing. The problem with LFR is that people like you cannot leave it alone and feels that you have a right to dictate how others should progress in the game.



No. There were made irrelevant with raiding. People do stuff for gear and rewards.



No. You know that if there are no meaningful rewards in the content, people would run it once and stop. This is true with any content. If the rewards is meaningless, people would not be interested.

Read what you said yourself, WoW is gear progression game. You are basically wanting to remove LFR as part of that progression, and thereby removing as of use.



No. The problem is yours alone. If LFR is too low, which it is, the solution is to raise it. If LFR feels mandatory, then the solution is to have it share loot lock out. But it seems neither solution occurred to you or acceptable.



People can play how they want. There is not a right way or a wrong way. That is just conceited arrogance.



It has a place. It just not in the place you like.

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Then leave it alone.

The rewards are not good because you get better for free with lfr. That single fact obliterates your entire... I want to call it argument.

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Greg Street has pointed out that uptake of Ulduar was lousy. People didn't run out of things to do; people just didn't like Ulduar and its tuning. It was the least successful raid tier of Wrath.

This is why ToC was released so soon thereafter, and why it was easier.

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Blizzard would not be better served by that person reading a book or seeing a movie, however.

The chronic fear you are likely experiencing is that Blizzard will finally clue in that that sort of player is their primary audience, not you, and that bending over backwards to try to please players like Redtower has been a billion dollar mistake.

Look at the realms. Show me a non raid realm that isn't low pop...

Its funny but you do realize the raiders are all that is left now no? You are alone child.