Hybrid Tax Confirmed

[deadmau]

It's funny reading Paladins still saying "don't worry it's just alpha/beta, it's not tuned" LMAO

Fuck Blizzard

[Deleted]

good, that's what these classes/specs have always been about

[moveth]

The Hybrid tax makes sense if they want class fantasy to be a real thing. For a long time (From wrath til now) they cared more about balance of everything which leads to a ton of homogenization. IMO It's better to have class fantasy and make the gameplay engaging than worrying if everyone is within 4 DPS of each other.

[Schattenlied]

good, that's what these classes/specs have always been about

No sorry, we don't need hybrid tax, this isn't 2004. Hybrid tax hasn't been a thing since Wotlk at least.

The blessing system is garbage anyways, it will be nothing but trouble, with people in raid fighting over who gets what buff, we don't need that drama, the old Arcane mage buff and whatever the warlock thing was that only got put on 1 other person were removed for this exact reason, this shit needs to be scrapped for that alone... Let's not also forget that no class should have to depend on 2-3 other people's competence for their own class to preform optimally.

[Deleted]

No sorry, we don't need hybrid tax, this isn't 2004. Hybrid tax hasn't been a thing since Wotlk at least.

The blessing system is garbage anyways, it will be nothing but trouble, with people in raid fighting over who gets what buff, we don't need that drama, the old Arcane mage buff and whatever the warlock thing was that only got put on 1 other person were removed for this exact reason, this shit needs to be scrapped for that alone... Let's not also forget that no class should have to depend on 2-3 other people's competence for their own class to preform optimally.

sorry, we do

[mhdoe]

Good hybrids should not be the best at one or the other but should be a support class with a good middle ground like they used to be.

[Isheria]

The system is fine, if there's one change that's actually needed is removing the ability of putting 3 of the same blessing on people and instead make 1 of each and that's because you can't buff might on yourself 3 times when not in a group. Ret damage is most likely tuned with the assumption that you have 1 blessing of might up all the time not 3.

[Tradu]

Good hybrids should not be the best at one or the other but should be a support class with a good middle ground like they used to be.

No, they shouldn't. Picking a DPS spec(regardless of whether it's on a hunter or a druid) should mean you're just as useful in terms of DPS as any other DPS spec, with some slight niches(read: not as extreme as stuff like Enhancement this expansion). Especially considering pures bring just as much utility as hybrids nowadays(or more in some cases, like how every pure brings more utility than WW)

[Deleted]

Hybrids should of always been like this. The only reason they never worked like this before was because Blizzard is retarded at balancing Hybrids and gave them poor damage AND poor utility (See Ret pre WOTLK).

[TheMeat420]

It's funny reading Paladins still saying "don't worry it's just alpha/beta, it's not tuned" LMAO

Fuck Blizzard

Why? Ret Paladins and Enhance Shamans may finally be brought to raids now. Stop being upset. Both classes are very unrepresented in world firsts. We may finally see some now.

[deadmau]

You guys bring up some interesting and compelling reasons, still funky to me, but I've already given up hope for Ret Paladins. Just can't hang on to false hope from Blizzard anymore, some user named Requital used to harp on this, "quit believing Blizzard is finally gonna get it right, they won't." Especially not with Ret's history from Beta onward.

Hybrids should of always been like this. The only reason they never worked like this before was because Blizzard is retarded at balancing Hybrids and gave them poor damage AND poor utility (See Ret pre WOTLK).

And then they swung the pendulum too far in Ret 3.0 WotLK, it's Ret's history most of the veterans understand it.

Why? Ret Paladins and Enhance Shamans may finally be brought to raids now. Stop being upset. Both classes are very unrepresented in world firsts. We may finally see some now.

Yea I hope it turns out well this time, at last, I really do. I'll stick with repeated history and gut-instinct this time, they're not gonna finally get it all right in this patch. Not close.

[Aqua]

Good hybrids should not be the best at one or the other but should be a support class with a good middle ground like they used to be.

Yeah but guess what guild leaders and raid leaders recruit off of? Numbers. Pure, goddamn numbers. No one needs to be sitting around doing under par damage to buff someone else when you can have 13 raiders all pulling maximum output while the hybrids heal and give the same effects.

The class fantasy is correct, but really it pigeon-holes the hybrids with healing specs into those specs for high end play. I remember when It was like that, I don't care to go back to it.

A compromise needs to be met here.

Wow alot of naivete in here too, why would you bring a Ret paladin when holy paladin can perform the same task, heal, and free up a dps spot to a pure? This was the issue back in the day. And I assure you if we slip too far down this road, it will be again. Ret and Enchance will be even more scarce than they are now.

[Redfingers]

That's not a "hybrid tax," however they are clearly saying that your damage is going to be reduced based on the amount those two specs give out in raid buffs.

I wonder how they're going to track that and what kind of butthurt it will all generate. New devs, same as the old devs.

[Isheria]

In the same way they used to track judgement of light healing, all healing generated from judgement of light is credited to the paladin casting it and in similar fashion all damage generated from blessing of might is credited to the paladin who provided the buff.

[Table]

Yeah but guess what guild leaders and raid leaders recruit off of? Numbers. Pure, goddamn numbers. No one needs to be sitting around doing under par damage to buff someone else when you can have 13 raiders all pulling maximum output while the hybrids heal and give the same effects.

The class fantasy is correct, but really it pigeon-holes the hybrids with healing specs into those specs for high end play. I remember when It was like that, I don't care to go back to it.

A compromise needs to be met here.

Wow alot of naivete in here too, why would you bring a Ret paladin when holy paladin can perform the same task, heal, and free up a dps spot to a pure? This was the issue back in the day. And I assure you if we slip too far down this road, it will be again. Ret and Enchance will be even more scarce than they are now.

Did you read the post? It says combat logs will now reflect the extra damage from these buffs. This means that the damage that the buffs give to the raid would be attributed to the hybrid class, boosting their damage output and numbers. So, they will have higher "pure, goddamn numbers" than they did when, for example, BOM's mastery buff was being counted into the damage that the hunter is doing, rather than the ret pally. This will help hybrids get raid spots as it will be easier to quantify the utility they are bringing to a raid in straight damage numbers. Will it be balanced? Who knows, probably not IMO. But I believe it will be an improvement and lay the groundwork for hybrids in the future.

[SL1200]

As it should be, and always has been.

[Deleted]

Hybrids should of always been like this. The only reason they never worked like this before was because Blizzard is retarded at balancing Hybrids and gave them poor damage AND poor utility (See Ret pre WOTLK).

The only thing retarded is your reasoning.

Well, if more people like you are around I guess I'll start to tank mediocre, too. Since I can't perform well as DPS even if I play well why should I tank properly for some retarded ingrate pures?

[Hottage]

Hybrid tax = you have good offheal and group utility, therefore you do (100-x)% the damage of a Y.
Hybrid tax =/= you have a buff which increases a Ys DPS by x% (but is attributed to you) so you still contribute (100)% the damage of a Y.

The new Greater Blessing of Might is actually a damage BUFF to paladins, because they will always be reserved for whichever players in your group does the most DPS, so as a result the paladins will also get damage buffed by the other player.

In solo play you get the x% damage buff anyway (doing 100% the damage of a Y) and in group play you can stack it 3 times, so you could potentially do 100 + (2x)% the damage of a Y.

[Floopa]

The worst part about the blessing of might buff is having to sacrifice parts of your own DPS to juggle the buffs on raid members who have CDs up. Boomkins popped CA+incarnation? Better switch buff to him. Frost Mage used Icy Veins? Better juggle to him. The most optimal way of playing with these buffs is going to mean Weakauras is a mandatory addon to track the CDs of each raid member.

[Arayaa]

Calling this a hybrid tax is very misleading.

The hybrid tax was previously a DPS penalty for classes which could perform other roles. In some cases, this came at certain utility benefits - but not always. It was meant to be an incentive to pure DPS classes to ensure that they were always desirable in raids.

What is being described here isn't even a DPS penalty. The overall damage of the raid would likely either remain the same, or improve as a result of bringing one of these classes. This is not a hybrid tax. You aren't going to lose your raid spot because of it. You just don't like the idea of part of your damage coming from other people.