Wrath of Gul'dan question

[WarcraftMages]

Am I right to assume mages and paladins can drop it but hunters can't so only hunters have to be replaced as soakers if they get it, or do they all have to be replaced as soakers if they get it?

[Nitros14]

Ice block and divine shield don't remove the debuff if that's what you're asking.

You can immune the damage from ticks though.

[Summer]

Uhm think you need to reread how the debuff works, as the poster above said.

The problem with one of your soakers getting the debuff isn't that that they can't soak someone else's debuff then, it's that while they're soaking they'll be zapping their own Wrath into the closest target and if that guy doesn't also have an immunity they'll die.

But yeah using the square tactic, as a mage, I've done the IB soak thing even though I had Wrath on me on some attempts where we just ran out people to soak, the other Wrath targets need to watch out that one person doesn't take too much and it's a bit risky. sometimes had two mages IB in the middle at the same time when we both had Wrath as well, that works quite well.

[WarcraftMages]

think you need to reread how the debuff works

Nowhere does it say if Mages or Palas drop Wrath completely or not.

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Ice block and divine shield don't remove the debuff

OK thanks. We'll replace them and consider them regular debuffed players unless it's an emergency.

[Icuren]

When one of our soakers gets marked we just "move down the list" and have hunters pop an extra deter or 2.

If we can't soak it all then people just spread the remaining stacks across the raid. Only time it's an issue is if someone isn't paying attention and just eats too many stacks instead of moving away while spreading it.

[Summer]

Nowhere does it say if Mages or Palas drop Wrath completely or not.

There's two separate debuffs:

Wrath of Gul'Dan makes you zap the closest target for the next 30 seconds

Getting zapped means you start stacking a debuff called Gripping Shadows that increases the damage you take from the Wrath

Neither debuff can be immuned away, however, the damage from getting zapped by the Wrath target can.

Special note: if you're still there when your immunity ends you'll get oneshot as you do keep stacking Gripping Shadows while immuned. Mages get around this with Glyph of Iceblock though.

Also, this kind of stuff is really easy to check from other guilds' logs

[Nitros14]

We don't bother with assigned soakers for wrath mostly. The melee and healers get it taken off by the tanks and the ranged dps just slowly lose a few stacks at a time when there's nothing else going in phase 2. It's almost always gone by phase 3.

Like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzZlIe89MA0 don't overthink the debuff. Worked for us.

[Icuren]

Special note: if you're still there when your immunity ends you'll get oneshot as you do keep stacking Gripping Shadows while immuned. Mages get around this with Glyph of Iceblock though.

You can get by without the glyph (just blink at the end). The glyph is nice though because it gives you a couple extra seconds of soaking. (JS as general info. Don't have room as a frost mage to take the glyph if that's what a mage is playing).

[WarcraftMages]

You can get by without the glyph (just blink at the end). The glyph is nice though because it gives you a couple extra seconds of soaking. (JS as general info. Don't have room as a frost mage to take the glyph if that's what a mage is playing).

Do you mean the pet glyph? That's mostly useless in PvE. Only in trash it can be out of range and lose DPS.

[Icuren]

Do you mean the pet glyph? That's mostly useless in PvE. Only in trash it can be out of range and lose DPS.

No...?

Splitting ice, IV and double blink (which is pretty much mandatory for a fight like manny). You can still VERY easily get out of wrath w/o the glyph by blinking. In all the attempts and kills on the boss, I think I've died maybe once to standing in wraths? (and that was user error or lag)

[WarcraftMages]

No...?

Splitting ice, IV and double blink (which is pretty much mandatory for a fight like manny). You can still VERY easily get out of wrath w/o the glyph by blinking. In all the attempts and kills on the boss, I think I've died maybe once to standing in wraths? (and that was user error or lag)

I see. For that fight on Frost I would find more benefit on the 3 extra immunity seconds than the double blink. Double blink can be very useful on Arcane which should be able to use Ice Floes properly to some extend even if it's not easy, but Frost can avoid Ice Floes more easily because it can move a lot during the Global Cooldowns.

[Icuren]

I see. For that fight on Frost I would find more benefit on the 3 extra immunity seconds than the double blink. Double blink can be very useful on Arcane which should be able to use Ice Floes properly to some extend even if it's not easy, but Frost can avoid Ice Floes more easily because it can move a lot during the Global Cooldowns.

Sorry but no. 3 sec immunity isn't more benefit than an extra blink. Blinking out for fel surges, shadow forces, catching loose gazes, moving in for imps, moving out of AoEs, baiting the fel surges, blinking into and out of position for soaking, and just overall extra movement.

Unless you're like, AIR TIGHT on soakers and need those extra 3 seconds, I guess? But even then, spreading 2-3 stacks into the raid isn't a huge issue.

And I honestly have no idea where you got that idea about ice floes, or why you're even talking about it. Ice floes is mandatory for any fight as arcane or frost (unless you're soaking fel lord or xhul). Wtf else are you going to take? Blazing speed? Those little twitches between GCDs aren't even close to making up for ice floes when you gain nothing from dropping the talent on mannoroth.

You sound like you don't know what you're talking about.

[Summer]

Sorry but no. 3 sec immunity isn't more benefit than an extra blink. Blinking out for fel surges, shadow forces, catching loose gazes, moving in for imps, moving out of AoEs, baiting the fel surges, blinking into and out of position for soaking, and just overall extra movement.

Depends on tactic. We do it like Paragon does and there's no baiting Felseekers, Shadowforces go against the pillar until last phase etc., a single blink would be plenty enough. Very little movement with the tact tbh, just reposition for each Felseeker and do the Shadowforce in P3, that's it.

[WarcraftMages]

We also do it like Paragon. I find Method's tactic a total mess. I hinted there for frosts to take Blazing Speed anyway since Ice Floes has a much lower value for them. Their global cooldown downtimes are huge and they can move all the time during them, while arcane can use Ice Floes much more potently, even if it's harder to do so, but there is no other way to avoid interruption for them.

[Icuren]

There is 0 reason to take blazing speed over ice floes regardless of blink glyph or not. There's no reason. none.

We also do paragon strat, but we bait felseekers out manually at times (othertimes just stackign and taking lock portals). Shadowforce still happens in final phase. Again, I'm not saying it's a hard "never can do it" but the 3 seconds is like an extra stack or two of wrath? and depending on the # of soakers, you might not even need it.

As arcane, obv, take the glyph.

[WarcraftMages]

There is 0 reason to take blazing speed over ice floes regardless of blink glyph or not. There's no reason. none.

You are insisting that you require an extra Blink. How is there no reason to get a strong help from Blazing Speed in that reality? Ice Floes has a very low value compared to arcane since frost instant casts all the time.

[Icuren]

You are protesting that you require an extra blink. How is there no reason? Ice Floes has a very low value for frost compared to arcane since it instant casts all the time.

So what, just spam ice lance all day instead of taking floes so you can keep up weaving?

I made my case on how i think an extra blink COULD be more useful than 3 seconds. People can decide if they think their strat or play needs more immunity time or more movement. I prefer double blink given the 500 hunters in our guild, and that the strat we use needs a bit of movement.

Ice floes is so critical to keeping up weaving and keeping up proccing, any minor movement you need to do if you have a waterjet rolling (yeah, lets waste a ton of GCDs moving and casting instants while trying to generate procs, sounds goood).

[AgilityTank]

we just have soakers call 'soaking with stacks' and have the four ppl move in and out to not die until their turn is over. easy fix

[Wilderness]

You are insisting that you require an extra Blink. How is there no reason to get a strong help from Blazing Speed in that reality? Ice Floes has a very low value compared to arcane since frost instant casts all the time.

Frost is less mobile this tier than in the past since you need to weave and can't just save a few procs to use on the move. Its more mobile than Arcane, but I had plenty of pulls as Frost on progression and I absolutely ran out of ice floes charges at times. Ice Floes and double blink are more useful than the other options.