Log analysis. Sub vs Sub

[Kazzai]

Hey all.
Been back raiding for about a month now since a brief hiatus and am in a new guild who has a fairly decent sub rogue.

I'm around the same ilvl as this guy now yet some fights he will still pull up above me by like 10%

As far as my log analysis, I can't see why I'm so far behind. Most fights I'll have a 15% fw advantage over him aswell as more energy through relentless strikes and ambushes.

He does however have a 795 ring opposed to my 759(? Think thats correct)
Some obvious areas of improvement are visible, like better cp management and using big cds alongside others (ring/2nd pot)

So yeah have a suss and let me know what you guys think. Be as harsh as you like.

Swapped to belf recently so only 1 parse so far.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YDw1KxfbNGhtnvqZ

Here are some previous ones from when I was undead but I'm a lot less proud of these as it was my first time raiding again in 5 months and I was being carried through 7 or so bosses I'd never encountered

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...2/8/#boss=1777

I'm Marew/Kazzai

Ill let you guys be the judge tho
Huge thanks in advance to anyone providing feedback

[maddnesskhaz]

Compare this (you) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&end=179445470

to this (Aimm) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&end=179445660

There's a significant difference between the number of Ambushes used during the Maalus window, and thus the amount of damage pushed in to the ring. ~4.1m vs ~5.4m

Because of the way Soul Cap and Maalus stack together, Find Weakness uptime itself isn't necessarily the best measure of potential DPS, it's moreso about pushing as much damage in to that Maalus window as possible. Rylix's guide has a great step-by-step video of how he does his opener if you haven't seen it yet.

[Kazzai]

Compare this (you) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&end=179445470

to this (Aimm) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&end=179445660

There's a significant difference between the number of Ambushes used during the Maalus window, and thus the amount of damage pushed in to the ring. ~4.1m vs ~5.4m

Because of the way Soul Cap and Maalus stack together, Find Weakness uptime itself isn't necessarily the best measure of potential DPS, it's moreso about pushing as much damage in to that Maalus window as possible. Rylix's guide has a great step-by-step video of how he does his opener if you haven't seen it yet.

Cheers for getting back to me man. Interesting find.
I've watched his guide religiously and read the written version moreso.

I really struggle to spend combo points in the first 15 seconds, aswell as trying not to waste any combo points with the 2nd vanish. But I see where I can focus more on now

[Osetian]

Hey fellas,

I was also checking out forums to try figure out what is that I am doing wrong as subs. I see u guys analyzing the logs. snap !
Mostly i am not happy with my dps output. Main problem is to maintain my dps through out the fight. I know it is normal that I can't keep the opener burst but I feel like I am dropping down my dps more then it should be. So I made some readings about rotation, opener and etc seems like im doing what all other subs rogues are doing.

SO I find another subs rogue on Zakuun Mythic with same length of fight, same ilvl and hero at last %30.
( Me with 94.7k ) warcraftlogs.com/reports/wHdrma4ntzN9QATk#fight=58&type=damage-done&source=365
( compared rogue with 109.2k ) warcraftlogs.com/reports/X8L1AqFPJzRDcWvC#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=318

Although I analyzed these logs I couldn't come up with a solid answer to my question except I am soaking with first group and getting the Disembodied realm. I also see some other rogues are doing around 120k dps under more or less conditions. (Also Kazzzai's logs are comparable with me)

It is really appropriated if u guys can take a look and make comments. I just need to solve this problem or I'll roll a hunter and start spamming barrage

You need to put www before the links above.. SORRY but its not allowing me to post a link cuz im a new member ...

[Deleted]

Well i am not a pro on logs. But your rupture is a bit low, 92% is to low. Even tho he jumps away and seeds and everything.
And your opener is way below the other dude. 200k in opener is alot. And i noticed u had only 1million in your ring. Did u manage to get ur heavy CD with the ring?

Take care

Hey fellas,

I was also checking out forums to try figure out what is that I am doing wrong as subs. I see u guys analyzing the logs. snap !
Mostly i am not happy with my dps output. Main problem is to maintain my dps through out the fight. I know it is normal that I can't keep the opener burst but I feel like I am dropping down my dps more then it should be. So I made some readings about rotation, opener and etc seems like im doing what all other subs rogues are doing.

SO I find another subs rogue on Zakuun Mythic with same length of fight, same ilvl and hero at last %30.
( Me with 94.7k ) warcraftlogs.com/reports/wHdrma4ntzN9QATk#fight=58&type=damage-done&source=365
( compared rogue with 109.2k ) warcraftlogs.com/reports/X8L1AqFPJzRDcWvC#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=318

Although I analyzed these logs I couldn't come up with a solid answer to my question except I am soaking with first group and getting the Disembodied realm. I also see some other rogues are doing around 120k dps under more or less conditions. (Also Kazzzai's logs are comparable with me)

It is really appropriated if u guys can take a look and make comments. I just need to solve this problem or I'll roll a hunter and start spamming barrage

You need to put www before the links above.. SORRY but its not allowing me to post a link cuz im a new member ...

[Seaintothesky]

Be as harsh as you like.

Ur opener rotation is crap, u need to keep in mind 1 thing, on zakuun ur opener matters alot!

Here are some magic numbers u should stick with -

1) On every opener u must do 8-9 ambushes +1-2 evic into the ring and 6-7 ambushes
+ 2eviceration into the capacitor.

2) u cast ur preparation on 5 to 10 sec window and not on 20 sec of fight like u did,
and u activate second vanish 3-4 seconds before maalus explode to add these 2 additional ambushes and 1-2 evics.

Its a baseline for good dps.
By the way ur rogue mate crap aswell, but at least he is better than u, maybe coz of 795 ring actually, coz his rotation
bad too =)

Once again u have 15 sec . first 10 sec its 7 ambushes +2 evics next 5 seconds its 2 ambushes +2 evics.
Try it in random pugs til u start getting these numbers. overall in first 20 seconds u can do 9-10 ambushes depending on bl on pull. All this assuming u get capacitor on first hit and maalus activated on
second 0-1 of the fight

[PessimiStick]

You can't get 7 Ambushes and 2 Eviscs inside soul cap without losing Sanguinary Veins. (Unless you just have terrible, terrible luck, in which case your opener is tanked anyway)

[Osetian]

Well i am not a pro on logs. But your rupture is a bit low, 92% is to low. Even tho he jumps away and seeds and everything.
And your opener is way below the other dude. 200k in opener is alot. And i noticed u had only 1million in your ring. Did u manage to get ur heavy CD with the ring?

Take care

I see rupture uptime should be %100 especially on a fight like zakuun.
Yeah Im in the first soaking group so I run out to soak pillar and get ported in to realm at last bit of ring. But I cant push more than 650-700k at end of ring on pulls (im not ring user btw) I also see equivalent ilvl rogues around 750-850k openers at the end of the ring. Any thing about the rotation?

[Kazzai]

Ur opener rotation is crap, u need to keep in mind 1 thing, on zakuun ur opener matters alot!

Here are some magic numbers u should stick with -

1) On every opener u must do 8-9 ambushes +1-2 evic into the ring and 6-7 ambushes
+ 2eviceration into the capacitor.

2) u cast ur preparation on 5 to 10 sec window and not on 20 sec of fight like u did,
and u activate second vanish 3-4 seconds before maalus explode to add these 2 additional ambushes and 1-2 evics.

Its a baseline for good dps.
By the way ur rogue mate crap aswell, but at least he is better than u, maybe coz of 795 ring actually, coz his rotation
bad too =)

Once again u have 15 sec . first 10 sec its 7 ambushes +2 evics next 5 seconds its 2 ambushes +2 evics.
Try it in random pugs til u start getting these numbers. overall in first 20 seconds u can do 9-10 ambushes depending on bl on pull. All this assuming u get capacitor on first hit and maalus activated on
second 0-1 of the fight

Ahahah you a savage bro. Much appreciated though, realised I had a lot of flaws in my opener.

Although I did a mythic reaver last night and did considerably better imo. Let us know what you think.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[maddnesskhaz]

Your opener is definitely awkward; see here.

Some quick comments;

• No pre-pot?
• The ring was used late (3s in to fight means you've missed at least 1 Ambush cast into the ring as you can see).
• You didn't use Premed during your opener.
• You used your 2nd SR at the wrong time also; you should always use it alongside Dance whereas at 2:19 you used Dance and no SR until 2:22. As much as possible you want to maintain the same ability priority order with SR as you use on the opener; SR > Rupture > Dance > Ambush and so on.
• Sub is extremely reliant on these cooldown windows, a few small mistakes in each one can make a huge difference to the outcome. Make sure you have a plan in your head for what you'll do each time you're within 5-10s of Dance; refresh your SnD slightly early if necessary so you won't need to do it during Dance, refresh Rupture if you don't have SR up with Dance.

Also, using the Ring at 2:49 is an exceedingly awkward time since pretty much no one has anything off cooldown, and whoever is controlling your Ring / CD's needs to sort that out. Use it when the raid has cooldowns up, so that should be either 2m (or soon after) or 3m (or later). Using it when he did was a massive waste, either people with 90s or 3m CDs got nothing out of it, or people with 2m CDs were sitting on them for 50 seconds.

- - - Updated - - -

Ahahah you a savage bro. Much appreciated though, realised I had a lot of flaws in my opener.

Although I did a mythic reaver last night and did considerably better imo. Let us know what you think.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

My earlier comment was to Osetian, for this one take a look at the following:

• No SR + Rupture on Pull it appears; therefore your first two Ambushes got nothing from the SV damage bonus.
• Your Prep > Vanish missed the Ring window (I highly recommend having a WeakAura to track Ring duration if you don't have one).
• No Premed in your opener.
• No 2nd AGI Potion.

[Kazzai]

Your opener is definitely awkward; see here.

Some quick comments;

• No pre-pot?
• The ring was used late (3s in to fight means you've missed at least 1 Ambush cast into the ring as you can see).
• You didn't use Premed during your opener.
• You used your 2nd SR at the wrong time also; you should always use it alongside Dance whereas at 2:19 you used Dance and no SR until 2:22. As much as possible you want to maintain the same ability priority order with SR as you use on the opener; SR > Rupture > Dance > Ambush and so on.
• Sub is extremely reliant on these cooldown windows, a few small mistakes in each one can make a huge difference to the outcome. Make sure you have a plan in your head for what you'll do each time you're within 5-10s of Dance; refresh your SnD slightly early if necessary so you won't need to do it during Dance, refresh Rupture if you don't have SR up with Dance.

Also, using the Ring at 2:49 is an exceedingly awkward time since pretty much no one has anything off cooldown, and whoever is controlling your Ring / CD's needs to sort that out. Use it when the raid has cooldowns up, so that should be either 2m (or soon after) or 3m (or later). Using it when he did was a massive waste, either people with 90s or 3m CDs got nothing out of it, or people with 2m CDs were sitting on them for 50 seconds.

- - - Updated - - -



My earlier comment was to Osetian, for this one take a look at the following:

• No SR + Rupture on Pull it appears; therefore your first two Ambushes got nothing from the SV damage bonus.
• Your Prep > Vanish missed the Ring window (I highly recommend having a WeakAura to track Ring duration if you don't have one).
• No Premed in your opener.
• No 2nd AGI Potion.

You sure you're addressing the right person? I'm confused, I'm Marew

[Seaintothesky]

He just showing what the second rogue awful too)

[maddnesskhaz]

He just showing what the second rogue awful too)

He is right though, I completely looked at the wrong Rogue >_>

[Kazzai]

He just showing what the second rogue awful too)

I think it's well and truly been established that both rogues are awful, hence me asking for advice in a public forum.

How about providing some useful feedback instead that isn't "9 ambushes in 15 seconds"