Demonhunters, Feedback and an Alternative idea.

[Aerowyn]

Hi everyone,

First of all a disclaimer to start things off, I do not have access to the alpha of the game and have not been able to test the Demonhunter personally. Yet I have been keeping myself up to date with the mechanics and the general feeling of various personalities that do have access as well as the people posting on this very forum.

From what I can tell the consensus seems to be that currently the Demonhunter DPS spec, Havoc (which this post is about specifically), is missing something. It is not always clear what most people mean by this as the comments range from needing more active abilities to needing more depth and I have even seen others clamoring for a different resource system.

This post is meant to explore my own personal feelings on this, to provide some early feedback and a possible alternative which would appeal to me myself and I when it comes to the Demonhunter. If you are interested please do criticize my opinions/ideas as I am putting this out there from only one viewpoint, my own, and I want to know what everyone else thinks of this.

Let's start off with my thoughts on the current, early and unfinished, ability set available to the Havoc Demonhunter. At it's core we have a basic resource bar, very akin to Rage though it is built purely* with active abilities. (*Unless talented). The core rotation seems to consist of only a basic Builder->Spender combination which, to me, is not very appealing and lacking in options. On top of this Havoc seems to posses fairly strong burst AoE in the form of Eye Beam and Chaos Nova which, in addition to damage, provides reliable AoE CC. This is more interesting to me and I can see the Demonhunter excelling on a small scale CC/AoE role which can be very satisfying. Finally they have access to Metamorphosis which, untalented, provides another form of AoE CC and enhancing your basic rotational abilities, this is however not an interesting cooldown as it doesn't change the function of these abilities it only provides a damage boost.

Overall I feel as though there is potential here, even with this basic ability set however it has not yet been explored or fleshed out in any way shape or form and I feel this is actually a good sign, considering that it is still early in development and other classes are being worked on far more actively at the moment I feel as though Blizzard can make this interesting with the solid but boring foundation they have set so far. Please note that I am not yet factoring in talents as these are quite all over the place as it stands and definitely require some more work and iteration, therefore I am only focusing on the basic ability set for the sake of simplicity.

My prediction at this point in time is that Havoc will have a solid rotation based on managing CD's and Crits to avoid wasting any (or as little as possible) of the class resource. Although I mentioned above that there is potential to be found here this is not what I am hoping for as we already see this playstyle with existing classes, Frost Deathknights need to manage Runic Power and Artificial Crits with Killing Machine ontop of Runes, Warriors need to manage Rage and Crits (Fury especially, to ensure a high uptime on Enrage), Fire Mage focuses on Crits and Procs. Now I admit this is very simplified and the class can definitely do in a different direction alltogether, I still feel as though this specific design space, resource bar+Crits already has strong representation and it doesn't align with the Demonhunter very well. This is why I want to present my alternative idea for how the Demonhunter could play.

Ever since Illidan in Warcraft 3 I have seen the Demonhunter as a character that seek power/a means to an end no matter the cost. Going so far as to put their very life and soul on the line by containing demonic essence in their bodies that could corrupt them at any moment. It's a dance requiring incredible balance and determination, take enough power to defeat the enemy but not enough to lose yourself in the process. I would reflect this in the Demonhunter playstyle. As such I would remove the static resource bar in favor of something that provides a little more flavor to this idea, for example a 4 stage corruption process that would work something like this:

At the start of a fight the Demonhunter would be without corruption, the demonic powers still sealed within them, however as the fight goes on the Demonhunters basic abilities would tap into the demonic forces and the Demonhunter would lose themselves to this fury more and more. Mechanically speaking it could work similarly to Arcane Charges, having a UI element consisting of 4 segments. Each Demon's Bite cast would fill up one segment, corrupting the Demonhunter further but also increasing their power. For each filled segment the Demonhunter would be visually affected (Tattoos glowing, demonic features appearing etc.) and spender abilities would be empowered. For example, Chaos Strike could simply gain damage for consuming a Segment of this corruption, Eye beam could gain 1 second of duration for each active segment (using them up in the process) and Chaos Nova could gain 0.5 second stun duration for each segment consumed.

On a basic level this is fairly similar to combo points or Chi, however it is not limited by an influx of energy (which aligns more with the Demonhunters theme, being able to tap into this power anytime they want and providing a fast and furious gameplay) and the spenders should differentiate this further from combo points/Chi in that there is varying costs/benefits. I also feel that this specific design space has a lot more room to provide a unique feel than the resource+Crit playstyle we can see from the Demonhunter at the moment. On top of this it could provide nice avenues for Metamorphosis, going from a static DPS increase to changing your playstyle while it is active. Possibly by surrendering to corruption your segments would immediately fill up and could not be consumed. Allowing you to spam finishers/use Eye Beam or Chaos Nova to their full effect providing Chain CC and immense Burst AoE. Though this specific idea is very close to Serenity of the Windwalker Monk, I would definitely like to see other ideas from people on this forum on how this could be done differently.

In conclusion, I feel that the Demonhunter has potential but I personally do not like the way it currently seems to be going from a design perspective. I would prefer a playstyle that expresses the "edge of madness" ideology the Demonhunters embody so well lorewise. Thank you for reading this ridiculous wall of text :P You're free to rip my post to pieces now <3

[Sangomah]

As someone who has access to the Alpha I can tell you that the new build made a small step in the right direction.

Fury gain is better (Felblade) and the rotation is more engaging (Felblade, Fel eruption and Chaos Blades in dungeons due to having access to the 110 row)

In dungeons we gained 3 new abilities through talents.
They changed Fury of the Illidari to a aoe talent.
Verus Proc is better and feels more rewarding, but the 3 crits still clip 2/3 charges on your first use, meaning you still only get 2 "free" Chaos Strikes even with 3 charges.

What they havent fixed is the synergy between abilities on a basic level. Momentum and Prepared still have synergy which is good, but Momentum isn't that good in dungeons still simply because Nemesis is still 10% and Momentum is only 15% still. THey also removed Blade Dance off the talent meaning only Fel Rush and Vengeful Retreat gives the buff. it does last for 6 seconds now though and Vengeful retreat doesnt put you that far fromthe boss so you loose maybe 1-2 seconds of the buff. Fel Rush cancelation doesnt seem to work anymore (rip)

Momentum seems like a talent that people like simply for the added complexity of the spec, which isnt very complex right now.

As someone mentioned, it might not even be worth casting Blade Dance outside Meta in the current build due to it being Phsyical Damage and not Chaos damage. Will have to do some more testing on that.

For the alternate system, I still think the only thing that Havoc needs now in that regard is the removal of the RNG on Demons Bite. Remove the 20-30 Fury and set it to a set number, it will be more or less "fixed". Others might not agree.

So to recap:

Demons Bite rng Fury Gain needs to change.
Synergy between abilities really need to go up.

[Deleted]

For the alternate system, I still think the only thing that Havoc needs now in that regard is the removal of the RNG on Demons Bite. Remove the 20-30 Fury and set it to a set number, it will be more or less "fixed". Others might not agree.
.

Random Fury generation is something that I'm not at all keen on. As you say, the random amount from Demon's Bite is particularly annoying.

[Sangomah]

Random Fury generation is something that I'm not at all keen on. As you say, the random amount from Demon's Bite is particularly annoying.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but its only Demons Bite right now, and I have no idea why they insist on keeping that.

[Vanyali]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but its only Demons Bite right now, and I have no idea why they insist on keeping that.

Probably a flavor thing. An annoying flavor thing.

[Sangomah]

Probably a flavor thing. An annoying flavor thing.

Should be my signature this quote lol