[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Rothex]

I think the main point of Phoenix Reborn is that it reduces the recharge time of the phoenixes. The fact that it does damage ala Conflagration-style, IMO, is inconsequential to why it was designed.

But I do agree with the lack of creativity.

[Synadrasa]

The ONLY reason I would ever pick firestarter is if there is a lot of adds but then again why wouldn't I just take conflagration? Such a dumb talent.

[Deleted]

found something between his ears.

Huh? How can you say versatility and mastery are identical on single target? Not only it doesn't follow mechanically, it doesn't even follow in strength.

[Deleted]

I think the main point of Phoenix Reborn is that it reduces the recharge time of the phoenixes. The fact that it does damage ala Conflagration-style, IMO, is inconsequential to why it was designed.

But I do agree with the lack of creativity.

You are right with the main design of Phoenix Reborn but the prior half of the spell description just hit me in the face anyways.

[whisperingsage]

Firestarter seems to be just a leveling talent, and that's it. Unless there's also a boss that stays above 90% health for a long time, Combustion will overwrite it like you said.

While leveling, though, Firestarter is a much more reliable and consistent benefit than the other two, and you'll usually have a charge or two of IB to benefit from the 90% crit Fireball.

[DeiVias]

Fireball Throws a fiery ball that causes [ 1 + 160% 170% of Spell Power ] Fire damage. Mage - Fire Spec. 2% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2.2 sec cast.

Pyroblast Hurls an immense fiery boulder that causes [ 1 + 330% 400% of Spell Power ] Fire damage. Mage - Fire Spec. 2.5% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 4.5 sec cast.

[pyrostorm9001]

Well its always nice to get some single target increases in Fireball and Pyroblast. However this just makes Flame Patch and Living Bomb less desirable than the patch before this one.
I still don't find Firestarter exciting, but the buff to 85% hp rather than 90% makes it slightly more useful.

[Rothex]

I still don't see how the Firestarter change will make any sort of impact. Only fight where it's actually good now is Odyn as the entire fight is at 85%+HP but outside of that, maybe leveling? They're probably be better off just making the talent give a crit % chance increase over a greater health bracket than a guaranteed crit in a small health bracket that isn't usually relatively important.

A few classes got nerfed this patch. Not many specs got buffs so hopefully that will push Fire up dpswise considering so many have been saying Fire's dps has been shitty recently.

Blast Furnace still not touched. Must whine more until it is.

[Profal]

I still don't see how the Firestarter change will make any sort of impact. Only fight where it's actually good now is Odyn as the entire fight is at 85%+HP but outside of that, maybe leveling? They're probably be better off just making the talent give a crit % chance increase over a greater health bracket than a guaranteed crit in a small health bracket that isn't usually relatively important.

A few classes got nerfed this patch. Not many specs got buffs so hopefully that will push Fire up dpswise considering so many have been saying Fire's dps has been shitty recently.

Blast Furnace still not touched. Must whine more until it is.

I'm banking on them keeping to trying to balance all of the specs to be nearly similar, if not just slightly off of one another, rather than a clear front runner like Arcane was doing until the nerfs this pass.

And I agree, Firestarter still seems pointless.

[whisperingsage]

The nerf to 85% might either guarantee a HS with two casts, or guarantee two HS if you use IB charges. So even more solidly a leveling talent.

[Deleted]

The 85% change is important when it gets to multiple relatively-high-HP targets. The common boss add will often drop below 90% early. But, getting the talent lower than that may make it more common for the mage to fish for that proc on fights with multiple moderately-high-HP adds.

[Rothex]

I think that type of fishing gameplay is problematic and is poorly designed. The more they reduce the health bracket the crits proc from the more problematic it can become. I doubt when creating this they intended for Mages to try and fish for procs on other high HP mobs that weren't the actual intended focus target of the encounter. Imagine this on Paragons. I don't want to be forced to weave Fireballs to irrelevant Klaxxi just to fish for guaranteed crits to Hot Streak zerg the actually intended target, for example.

The talent needs changing nonetheless, or at least altering to avoid potentially silly weaving gameplay on multi-add fights.

[Deleted]

My thoughts, having played all previous versions of fire, is that the spec is in a very healthy place. There are things to work on but it plays out alot better than I thought it would (got into beta just this weekend). Fire was always a spec of "big crits" until it took a major detour into semi-dot spec land from Cata and onwards. With things like new inferno blast and new(old) combustion we're back to dealing most damage upfront and that's something I appreciate for multiple reasons. Pyretic incantaiton has the potential to add some interesting gameplay to it, or it may prove to be a stacking buff you barely notice, but the potential is there.

I like the cleaving from phoenix flames and the subsequent interaction between phoenix flames/phoenix reborn (the cleave from phoenix flames seems to be both some damage upfront and it applies ignite to all targets thus proccing phoenix reborn).

I also think the pvp talents of the fire tree are in a good place, they interact with each other and the spec in interesting ways and has the potential to alter/complement your playstyle. I dislike the fact that mages share 4/6 rows when there are classes that share 3/6. I think this should have been standardized to 3/6 or 4/6 for all classes.

The artifact tree is mostly fine. I would let scorched earth to stack to 3 for 25 % movement speed as barely anyone would scorch five times in pvp or pve. Not a fan of the fact that we have two talents solely increasing damage on inferno blast. Transmits a lack of creativity to me.

The talent tree has some issues and those issues, imo, are pretty much what people here and in other places keep pointing out. Firestarter is meh, controlled burn is 100% lack of creativity, flame patch is just bad (remove it and put world in flames in its place), unstable magic and conflag are the same ability but it feels alot better at lvl 15 tier so I'd love a rework of unstable magic. Pvpers could use an alternative to living bomb on this tier. Neither flame patch or unstable magic has much benefit to pvpers.

As for aoe, when all aoe abilities are on cd, and you still have mobs to aoe, you're left with 4.5s cast flamestrike and that doesn't feel good. So you stand there thinking "Should I just single target and fish for hot streak or should I cast this damn eternal spell?"

Overall I think the spec is heading in the right direction again.

And as always, they need to add a minor glyph of anything-but-ice barrier.

[Deleted]

Yes Ice Barrier is annyoing as a fire mage, but Ice Flows is even worse since this one makes our casting animations ugly

[Deleted]

As for aoe, when all aoe abilities are on cd, and you still have mobs to aoe, you're left with 4.5s cast flamestrike and that doesn't feel good. So you stand there thinking "Should I just single target and fish for hot streak or should I cast this damn eternal spell?"

Aah heck, I'll just cast this damn eternal spell.

Tank: Not if I move these mobs you don't *evil laugh*

[MrExcelion]

I think that type of fishing gameplay is problematic and is poorly designed. The more they reduce the health bracket the crits proc from the more problematic it can become. I doubt when creating this they intended for Mages to try and fish for procs on other high HP mobs that weren't the actual intended focus target of the encounter. Imagine this on Paragons. I don't want to be forced to weave Fireballs to irrelevant Klaxxi just to fish for guaranteed crits to Hot Streak zerg the actually intended target, for example.

The talent needs changing nonetheless, or at least altering to avoid potentially silly weaving gameplay on multi-add fights.

Definitely agree, not looking forward to this

[Deleted]

Eh, Blizz will just say that 'some people find weaving Fireballs on different mobs to be exciting' and leave it at that.

[Deleted]

fishing gameplay is problematic

It can be fun if the spell is instant or fast casting. Hunters use it all the time for the void stars in archimonde for example (aimed shot?). Fireball is kinda slow though.

[Dizzeeyooo]

It can be fun if the spell is instant or fast casting. Hunters use it all the time for the void stars in archimonde for example (aimed shot?). Fireball is kinda slow though.

not sure you can compare hunters tab target sniping priority adds (which have to die one way or another as soon as possible) to mages tab targeting irrelevant cleave targets in order to take advantage of a poorly designed talent - apples vs oranges and all that

[The Archmage]

Well its always nice to get some single target increases in Fireball and Pyroblast. However this just makes Flame Patch and Living Bomb less desirable than the patch before this one.
I still don't find Firestarter exciting, but the buff to 85% hp rather than 90% makes it slightly more useful.

The single target increase in Pyroblast expecially is rather massive, 17% more damage is pretty impressive, even more so when considering that it boosts Ignite aswell.