[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Biomega]

Is 40% considered a good starting number? What was the average requirements for crit rating pre 7.0 in raiding before fire became optimal?

Thanks!

Pointless question, because so many mechanics have changed.

40% is totally fine. Fire will be ahead of the other specs by a good margin as Legion gets underway. Maybe towards the end of the tier or in the tier after the other specs may pick up in terms of scaling, who knows.

[Erolian]

Is 40% considered a good starting number? What was the average requirements for crit rating pre 7.0 in raiding before fire became optimal?

Thanks!

Once upon a time people would throw around 35% as a number where they would feel comfortable playing fire but frankly there isn't and never was a magic number to where you just said "Okay fire is viable now!" but yes 40% is more than enough for it to feel good to play on beta/live

[whisperingsage]

If it's faster or not doesn't really matter. The game checks for crits inside a window, if you fireball + HS Pyro, they both land withing 0,x seconds. If 1 crits you always get HU, if both crit you get HS. Thus if you have HU while casting a new FB, you can press it instantly after the Fireball to gain HS. I don't think it matters if the fireball crits or not.

But Phoenix Flames always crits, and Fireball doesn't. If you already have HU, you want PF to hit first to guarantee HS. If Fireball hits first and doesn't crit, you've lost the HU and wasted the guaranteed HS. Getting a guaranteed HU doesn't really matter, since it could be lost with the next Fireball.

That doesn't matter with Fireball+Pyro because you only need either one of them to crit to then use FB, and if both crit then that's just a bonus. You can't use PF during the gcd, so it doesn't work the same.

[Deleted]

Is 40% considered a good starting number? What was the average requirements for crit rating pre 7.0 in raiding before fire became optimal?

Thanks!

Its playing very differently now, there are so many mechanics to enable forcing procs that it will play fine from the start, even at very high crit levels later on in the expac, crit does not ever stop being good because of its synergy with combustion and talents like kindling.

Some would argue that they went too far(eat a dick preacher ), but not me i am perfectly fine having more control back instead of being first on the meters on one pull and dead last on the next because RNGsus decided to not play dice.

[Hashcrypt]

How big of a learning curve does Fire have? I've almost convinced myself to boost a mage just so I can play fire in pvp and pve.

This will be my first caster main as I've Been melee since vanilla, so I know I'm in for a pretty large change in gameplay already.

Can I be raid ready skill wise by the time raids release in Legion?

[Deleted]

The elitist problems of Mages......

Other casters cant even play properly, and youre discussing about micro-managing proccs that other caster only can dream off.

[The Archmage]

What really worries me is the spec's popularity. On Beta, the other 2 specs are barely represented, which will eventually lead to either a massive and hasty boost to those 2 specs (and, like every Blizzard's hasty thing, is broken) or to a massive and hasty nerf to Fire (same rule apply).

Having a single spec SO strong before the launch of an expansion is not a good thing. Trust me.

[Summer]

What really worries me is the spec's popularity. On Beta, the other 2 specs are barely represented, which will eventually lead to either a massive and hasty boost to those 2 specs (and, like every Blizzard's hasty thing, is broken) or to a massive and hasty nerf to Fire (same rule apply).

Having a single spec SO strong before the launch of an expansion is not a good thing. Trust me.

Normally I'd agree but right now with the Artifact Weapon situation I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that they're playing it safe and making one spec an obvious choice. Fire makes a good choice because it's the spec that plays the best at the moment (though some will of course disagree).

[Deleted]

8/1/2016 Hotfix:
- Flame Patch: 60% -> 25% SP per tick.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ne...ixes-august-1v


Welp, was fun while it lasted I guess. I wonder if ToSW will still be good on live :/

[Wenoxar]

8/1/2016 Hotfix:
- Flame Patch: 60% -> 25% SP per tick.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ne...ixes-august-1v


Welp, was fun while it lasted I guess. I wonder if ToSW will still be good on live :/

Is it Beta or Live nerf?

[Deleted]

But Phoenix Flames always crits, and Fireball doesn't. If you already have HU, you want PF to hit first to guarantee HS. If Fireball hits first and doesn't crit, you've lost the HU and wasted the guaranteed HS. Getting a guaranteed HU doesn't really matter, since it could be lost with the next Fireball.

That doesn't matter with Fireball+Pyro because you only need either one of them to crit to then use FB, and if both crit then that's just a bonus. You can't use PF during the gcd, so it doesn't work the same.

How have you been playing fire all these years? It works like I said for a while now.

When in WoD we have HS + HU, we would cast Fireball + Insta Pyro and get at least a HS back if either FB or Pyro crits. WoW counts any crit in a window of 0,x seconds as a crit for HU/HS, doesn't matter if fireball hits first and doesn't crit and Pyro crits 0,1s later.

So if you have HU and you are casting Fireball, you can freely PF after it and they both hit close enough together to make the HU in HS no matter if fireball crits or not. Unless they changed this mechanic in Legion ofc.

[Statix]

I'm not sure if this has any impactfor Fire, but I saw a video of someone explaining the following change:

Prior to Legion, having your target in Frost Nova on release of Ice Lance would make Ice Lance still deal extra damage, regardless if the target is out of Frost Nova by the time Ice Lance actually hits.
In Legion, your target has to to be in Frost Nova when Ice Lance hits, otherwise Ice Lance will not deal its extra damage.

Meaning, that using your trinket to break Frost Nova, now saves you from the increased Ice Lance damage when Ice Lance is already flying towards you, but prior to Legion, it would still have dealt extra damage.

I remember watching the video, but I'm not sure if this is actually true. If it is, does this change when we cast Phoenix Flames?

[The Archmage]

I'm not sure if this has any impactfor Fire, but I saw a video of someone explaining the following change:

Prior to Legion, having your target in Frost Nova on release of Ice Lance would make Ice Lance still deal extra damage, regardless if the target is out of Frost Nova by the time Ice Lance actually hits.
In Legion, your target has to to be in Frost Nova when Ice Lance hits, otherwise Ice Lance will not deal its extra damage.

Meaning, that using your trinket to break Frost Nova, now saves you from the increased Ice Lance damage when Ice Lance is already flying towards you, but prior to Legion, it would still have dealt extra damage.

I remember watching the video, but I'm not sure if this is actually true. If it is, does this change when we cast Phoenix Flames?

It is true, but it only majorly impacts PvP.

The video was from Cartoonz, a rather known Youtuber and PvPer.

[Imaskar]

It was said to impact only Frost.

[pyrostorm9001]

8/1/2016 Hotfix:
- Flame Patch: 60% -> 25% SP per tick.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ne...ixes-august-1v


Welp, was fun while it lasted I guess. I wonder if ToSW will still be good on live :/

I was expecting this tbh and their reasoning is sound.
"(Work in progress) Flame Patch damage has been significantly reduced. A previous hotfix to solve a bug with Flame Patch not dealing damage while the Mage was casting effectively increased its performance, and today’s change returns it to approximately the intended performance level."

60% ticks mean that taking flamepatch would do more damage than a pyroblast (provided the mob(s) would stand still) at both 100 and 110.

[Versy]

I know its prepatch but that nerf to flamepatch is huge..dropped 60k on the same parse from last week..flamepatch damage went from 17.8m to 8.3m..163k dps to 103k on same boss.was fun while it lasted!

[Deleted]

What really worries me is the spec's popularity. On Beta, the other 2 specs are barely represented, which will eventually lead to either a massive and hasty boost to those 2 specs (and, like every Blizzard's hasty thing, is broken) or to a massive and hasty nerf to Fire (same rule apply).

Having a single spec SO strong before the launch of an expansion is not a good thing. Trust me.

Fire has generally been the most popular mage spec in terms of pure fun factor IMO, i found arcane mind numbingly boring during mists and cata, frost was fun to play, just no where near the enjoyment i get from playing fire. Mists fire was the dogs bollocks in PvE(with gear) and my favourite spec of all time in PvP, after they gutted it in cata i mainly played my SP as that was the closest thing i could come to emulating the playstyle in terms of burst setup and utility.

Legion fire feels so much like mists with the new combustion, which i think is why so many people are gravitating back to the spec. The other two specs sure are underperforming and probably need a buff. One thing to remember though is raid testing on beta is happening with full artifact talents, something that significantly affects fire more so than a lot of other specs. Fire has good traits as all specs should have, its just for once blizzard have actually done such a good job with fire, it highlights their short comings with the other specs, frost mainly but fire is without a shadow currently the best spec in terms of talent synergy, artifact synergy/coolness and fun gameplay.

The gulf will be far closer in early gear and not fully talented artifacts, which is something they can address over the course of the expac rather than blanket nerfs based on end game data that is not really relevant for a few months.

[Zamasu]

Is it Beta or Live nerf?

Definitely live. Just ran Xhul, Fel Lord, and a few mythic dungeons. The reduced damage is very noticeable.

[Sturmcantor]

It should be somewhere between ~6% less damage (single target) and ~18% less damage (Iskar) based on my logs.

[Biomega]

It's fine, it really was way too powerful. Not all nerfs are bad.