Is Aysa Cloudsinger... colossal bitch?

[emilylorange]

TLDR- sometimes you have to make tough choices and accept the consequences. Risk takers always either go very far in life or go completely broke. People who always takes safe choices generally plateaus at a medium point. Point in case - Steve Jobs. Went from bankrupting Apple to making it the no 1 company (revenue wise) in the world all in the span of 30 odd years. Never shied away form doing things his way even when the world told him not to.

You're comparing surgery with dynamite to strategic business decisions.

You are hilarious

10/10

[ZweiHandler]

Are you comparing something designed to fall out to be replaced by an adult tooth to arterial bleed out?



I'm officially concerned for the well being of several heavily misinformed MMO-C members.

I am really concerned that you are this upset over a turtle in a video game.....

I hope you know the turtle ended up having millions of ships blown out his side, he survived. Its probably happening right now. It was only ment to show a side of hasty reaction to a slowly more thought out process. Or just to add some "drama" to what side you pick lol.

[Tom Anderson]

The turtle is fine guys.

But what about Bossy a cow in booty bay that we sever her head, place it in a bag and kick it around to mess it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkcvkI4DJaI&t=13m25s

Much more brutal lol

There was something about that cow that was just bad news.
Had it coming imo.

[emilylorange]

I am really concerned that you are this upset over a turtle in a video game.....

If you didn't want to discuss it in depth I'm not sure why you clicked on the thread tbh.

[rasako]

it took less than one page for sexist accusations to start flying about a virtual world of imaginary people! amazing how ignorant human beings can be

[Lupinemancer]

Of course, that's why she goes to alliance.

True, she symbolizes all the Alliance stands for, kindness, caring about others and wanting to find alternate ways to solve things rather then ways that can be fatal.
Where Ji is so Horde, careless, stupid, doesn't care about consequences and doing things in a way that can proov fatal to others!

I admit that Aysa overracts, and I really hate those cry-baby girls, but Ji is too reckless!

After all, would you just cut off the hand of someone who had a thorn in his hand? No you'd just pull out the thorn, and find away to do so, without removing the hand!
Ji's action was like removing the hand, while Aysa's was like trying to find out how to remove the thorn without having to cut of the hand. And we don't even know whether Aysa's action could have worked, cuz Mr. Reckless Panda was too hasty!

[Fayenoor]

True, she symbolizes all the Alliance stands for, kindness, caring about others and wanting to find alternate ways to solve things rather then ways that can be fatal.
Where Ji is so Horde, careless, stupid, doesn't care about consequences and doing things in a way that can proov fatal to others!

I could swear that Arthas was alliance.

[Thage]

For those of you who have played the Pandaren starting area, what do you think of Aysa Cloudsinger when it comes to removing the "thorn" from Shen-zin Su's side? Ji Firepaw said they had to use the explosives to blast the airship out of the wound so it could be healed and Aysa didn't want to do it, but didn't have an alternative. Ji's plan worked and the airship was removed, allowing healers to fix the wound... but Aysa guilt tripped Ji in a cinematic ("I hope you can forgive yourself for what you have done to him.") Is she not a significant bitch for doing so?

The entire point was that both philosophies had glaring flaws (your character's ability to merge both is why you became Shang Xi's star pupil in record time). Aysa sought to find a solution that wouldn't risk killing Shen-Zin Su; Ji figured he'd blow the 'thorn' out and figure out how to deal with the fallout from there. Planning versus winging it is the central clash between Tushui and Huojin philosophies.

That the plan worked doesn't change the fact that neither of them knew if it would work at the time; Ji was taking a huge risk while Aysa wanted to use the time they still had before the Wandering Isle careened into the Maelstrom or whatever to find a safer course of action. She's not a bitch, she's a thinker whereas Ji is a doer. Retroactive justification is easy; justifying a huge risk that could have killed the turtle your people live on isn't so easy when you don't have the player's omniscient point of view. And there was no guarantee the druids and priests would have been able to heal Shen-Zin Su; he was dying, which is why she guilt-tripped him in the first place. Again, difficult to justify without the player's omniscient point-of-view and doubly so from the viewpoint of someone whose philosophy centers around meditation and careful planning to find the course of action with the surest chance of success with minimal fallout.

Even after the fact, she finds it hard to forgive him because what he did had a very real chance of killing Shen-Zin Su, and almost did at that. It's that he was willing to gamble the lives of every man, woman, and child on the Isle for a very big "maybe."

[Lupinemancer]

I could swear that Arthas was alliance.

I could swear that he got corrutted by a sword made by Demons. But you are right, and before he got corrupted, he was indeed a man who cared about others and was desperate to save his kingdom, so he was a good example of Alliance, before the sword turned him evil.
This is something everyone knows so what's your point?

[Fayenoor]

I could swear that he got corrutted by a sword made by Demons. But you are right, and before he got corrupted, he was indeed a man who cared about others and was desperate to save his kingdom, so he was a good example of Alliance, before the sword turned him evil.
This is something everyone knows so what's your point?

The Culling of Stratholme was before Arthas got Frostmourne. There was nothing caring or remotely heroic about the Culling.

[DeadmanWalking]

They didn't even know if druid healing would fix the turtle, they never had to heal something that had mountains on its back before. They were guessing and hoping. They also 'probably' could of healed the wound and forced the ship out of the wound while it healed, no reason to blow a bigger hole in the turtle.

[Cooper]

I could swear that he got corrutted by a sword made by Demons. But you are right, and before he got corrupted, he was indeed a man who cared about others and was desperate to save his kingdom, so he was a good example of Alliance, before the sword turned him evil.
This is something everyone knows so what's your point?

Arthas was corrupted by his own hubris long before he acquired Frostmourne. Taking the sword was simply the point of no return for him. S'why Muradin is there to voice the option to turn away in the story.

[Dasani]

Think of a situation where someone is choking to death.

You have a chick that says "I dont know what to do!" and the guy says "Well, i think i'll try the heimlich even though I don't know exactly how it works"
Then the chick freaks out and says "NO! You might kill him! Or seriously injure him because you dont know what you're doing!"
and the guy is like "Well he is going to die anyway if we dont do anything at all" so he goes for it and gives it his best shot and succeeds in saving the guy although it caused him a great deal of pain and discomfort.

Then instead of being thankful that the guy is alright or proud of her friend for what he accomplished, she's like "Wow... I cant believe you did that. You really hurt that guy, I hope you can forgive yourself." then walks off bitch-style.

So yeah. She is a super bitch.

There are times you can stand around debating and planning but sometimes when time is short, decisions have to be made and you have to do the best you can with the knowledge and resources you have. You don't always have all the time in the world to think about it. She was frozen by inaction and lack of confidence and initiative. His idea was a little nuts but they couldn't think of anything better at the time. And ultimately, it all worked out in the end and everything was fine. The dumb turtle was even healed through magic, it's not like he had to contend with the pain for long or risk infection or anything like that.

Ji was the fireman who was willing to run into a burning building to save someone and Aysa was just frozen in terror and had no clue what to do so decided to do nothing. I mean most people are like that, but it is what makes the difference between an ordinary person, like Aysa, and a Hero, like Ji.

[Yamuri]

Think of a situation where someone is choking to death.

You have a chick that says "I dont know what to do!" and the guy says "Well, i think i'll try the heimlich even though I don't know exactly how it works"
Then the chick freaks out and says "NO! You might kill him! Or seriously injure him because you dont know what you're doing!"
and the guy is like "Well he is going to die anyway if we dont do anything at all" so he goes for it and gives it his best shot and succeeds in saving the guy although it caused him a great deal of pain and discomfort.

It's more like saying "They are choking! I'm going to punch them in the throat so it frees the airway!"

[Kaleredar]

Well Ji probably ended up regretting his decision to join the horde come SoO time...

[TirielWoW]

I personally feel it was bad writing and rather out of character for her.

[Hiricine]

As for the "there could have been another solution" people, the proof really doesn't exist that there was any other solution. The turtle got saved by the man with the plan, and the entire island full of people who waited didn't get the glory. It wasn't like the plan was to wait with the explosives until the last minute and then blow up the ship as a last resort, it was simply cowardice and laziness if anything.

[Yamuri]

I personally feel it was bad writing and rather out of character for her.

This more than anything, they just used it as a way to separate them and players based on morals... though people didn't really see that since it was pretty much pre-determined which faction most people were joining by the person at character creation.

[Raiju]

Oh, please, do tell me more about these surgical procedures involving explosives. I'm just so ignorant.

I don't even... are you intentionally ignoring the fact this things skin is far too thick for us to cut? The explosives are the only way to actually make a dent. There were also yknow, HEALERS. If you're not going to act when you have healers then when are you? You can't just leave a giant bleeding wound. This is before you even consider infections...

To even suggest Ji's decision was any worse than Aysa's shows a lack of understanding for the situation. That goes for both sides since BOTH had risks. Aysa had no solution - Ji did but it was risky.

In the real world we call that surgery.

[SidFwuff]

The entire point was that both philosophies had glaring flaws (your character's ability to merge both is why you became Shang Xi's star pupil in record time). Aysa sought to find a solution that wouldn't risk killing Shen-Zin Su; Ji figured he'd blow the 'thorn' out and figure out how to deal with the fallout from there. Planning versus winging it is the central clash between Tushui and Huojin philosophies.

That the plan worked doesn't change the fact that neither of them knew if it would work at the time; Ji was taking a huge risk while Aysa wanted to use the time they still had before the Wandering Isle careened into the Maelstrom or whatever to find a safer course of action. She's not a bitch, she's a thinker whereas Ji is a doer. Retroactive justification is easy; justifying a huge risk that could have killed the turtle your people live on isn't so easy when you don't have the player's omniscient point of view. And there was no guarantee the druids and priests would have been able to heal Shen-Zin Su; he was dying, which is why she guilt-tripped him in the first place. Again, difficult to justify without the player's omniscient point-of-view and doubly so from the viewpoint of someone whose philosophy centers around meditation and careful planning to find the course of action with the surest chance of success with minimal fallout.

Even after the fact, she finds it hard to forgive him because what he did had a very real chance of killing Shen-Zin Su, and almost did at that. It's that he was willing to gamble the lives of every man, woman, and child on the Isle for a very big "maybe."

Indeed. This is the central point to Shakespeare's Hamlet. There are three characters that all must avenge their fathers, and probably sound familiar:

Hamlet- Possesses "too much mind" and "not enough heart". His indecisiveness and inability to act gets him killed.
Laertes- Complete opposite of Hamlet and has "too much heart" and "not enough mind". His impulsiveness and inability to sit back and think things through gets him killed.
Fortinbras- Blessed with the right mixture of "heart" and "mind", his restraint at the beginning and then acting at the end sees his father avenged, Fortinbras alive and made king no less.

Those preoccupied with which one was right- Ji or Aysa are missing the point. Neither were right.

- Ji, being Laertes, would have done exactly as he did even if Aysa, the player, and the Horde/Alliance healers weren't there. He'd have blown the wreckage out with the goblin and then watched as the turtle died, wishing he has thought things through first.
- Aysa, being Hamlet, would have waited too long. Even if she found another solution, she'd have delayed- she'd have debated which option was best, and not acted until it was too late (if at all). As the turtle plunged into the Maelstrom, Aysa would have been wishing she had done something sooner.

As you said, Thage, the "player" is the character that balances out Ji and Aysa. As Fortinbras, we were able to act when needed- but also show restraint when required as well. It's the ability to walk down the path between both ideologies that saved the turtle and everyone on board.