The censorship of conservatives on FB and Twitter got me thinking

[Incredibale]

It's an Incredibale thread; thoughtful discussion was pretty much ruled out at the beginning. I'm just upping my post count here.

Funny you say that because 99% of the responses I get are cute little insults like yours which attack me and don't address the point.

Because their reasons are detrminetal to natural order of things such as truth or reality.

Your own constructed reality you mean. When I posed this same topic/question on a certain imageboard some idiot asked me for citations when I mentioned marxism and communism being responsible for the death of tens of millions, as if I was just making it up.

I don't think I should be diplomatic with people like you.

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Spread hate and lies, get banned, cry about censorship. Rinse repeat.

For bonus points, accuse those people telling you to stop spreading hate of hating your hate.

But you label truth as lies and hate, usually without offering ANY sort of argument.

[Garnier Fructis]

If you think "misinformation" should be deleted, you don't want to live in a free society.

To be fair, there are certainly contexts where misinformation should be deleted. Like wikipedia. Not so much social networks though.

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Funny you say that because 99% of the responses I get are cute little insults like yours which attack me and don't address the point.

Well your point almost always boils down to 'liberals are evil' or 'liberals hate freedom' or some such nonsense, so there's not much of a point to address at all.

[spinner981]

To be fair, there are certainly contexts where misinformation should be deleted. Like wikipedia. Not so much social networks though.

The problem is that a lot of the time when things are deemed misinformation or lies it is actually a discussion of interpretation or opinions. People act like other people are 'lying' just because they don't accept the 'truth' of their own personal opinions or interpretations.

[Daerio]

If you think "misinformation" should be deleted, you don't want to live in a free society.

Free society does not mean free to harm others through dissemination of mis-information.

Free speech does in fact have limits, and the conservation propaganda circulating around is not only total bullshit, but it is in fact harmful; and usually slanderous as well.

[Incredibale]

To be fair, there are certainly contexts where misinformation should be deleted. Like wikipedia. Not so much social networks though.

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Well your point almost always boils down to 'liberals are evil' or 'liberals hate freedom' or some such nonsense, so there's not much of a point to address at all.

No, I make you people uncomfortable as I'm about as diplomatic and indirect as you liberals are, which is to say, not very.


If you get to tell me how to run my business I should be able to use the power of the state to coerce Twitter into bringing in MRA and conservative groups so they aren't staffing their watchdog branch with only radical feminist and socialists and other anti-free-speech dirtbags.

edit: see Twitter's “Trust and Safety council” members if you've been living in a cave and want to call it a conspiracy theory.

[TexasRules]

Funny you say that because 99% of the responses I get are cute little insults like yours which attack me and don't address the point.

.

Most of the people posting here are taking a break from posting on the huffington post. Why are you surprised?

[Garnier Fructis]

The problem is that a lot of the time when things are deemed misinformation or lies it is actually a discussion of interpretation or opinions. People act like other people are 'lying' just because they don't accept the 'truth' of their own personal opinions.

I was talking about things like natural science or math. And I'm not in the mood to debate the alternatives to evolution or cosmology (yes, they are separate) or decay or w/e.

[spinner981]

Free society does not mean free to harm others through dissemination of mis-information.

Free speech does in fact have limits, and the conservation propaganda circulating around is not only total bullshit, but it is in fact harmful; and usually slanderous as well.

First off, there is a difference between telling something that isn't true and lying. Lying means you know you are saying something that you know isn't the truth. People can say wrong things without lying.

That said, simply saying wrong things isn't illegal under any circumstance unless you are also lying, and in that case it's only illegal in certain legal areas such as court where it would be deemed perjury.

Furthermore, just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are 'harming' other people with misinformation. The idea that people who merely disagree with you should be silenced is ridiculous.

[Dendrek]

Why are you so against the rights of those two companies to set their own policies?

Incredibale is obviously a pretty hardcore liberal.

He does talk a lot of crap on "leftists" but to be honest I'm pretty sure that's because he doesn't actually know the difference between left and right. (If you're ever on a road trip with him, don't let him drive or you're going to get lost.)

Anyways, Incredibale, I whole heartedly support your anti-capitalist leanings. *fist bump*

[Daerio]

Furthermore, just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are 'harming' other people with misinformation. The idea that people who merely disagree with you should be silenced is ridiculous.

I haven't given any examples of people disagreeing with me. Are you saying people don't share propaganda that is proven false on social media?

[Deleted]

I have to ask, what cases have you particularly annoyed? I find it extremely likely that they were "censored" because of reasons other than their political leanings. You're also not doing yourself any favors politicizing an issue without giving any supporting evidence aside from opinion.

Well, there are also reasons like Ideological leanings of course, although some put them in the same boat.
And, ofc the amount Vitamin C (connections) is rather high there, too.

This is a problem, and it's why stocks are taking a nosedive.
Yet, the companies reaction mirrors that of the "this is fine" dog.

[Garnier Fructis]

No, I make you people uncomfortable as I'm about as diplomatic and indirect as you liberals are, which is to say, not very.


If you get to tell me how to run my business I should be able to use the power of the state to coerce Twitter into bringing in MRA and conservative groups so they aren't staffing their watchdog branch with only radical feminist and socialists and other anti-free-speech dirtbags.

edit: see Twitter's “Trust and Safety council” members if you've been living in a cave and what to call it a conspiracy theory.

Oh yes, if we tell you how to run your business because your business actually affects environment, health, safety, commerce, etc. then you should have the ability to tell FB how to run the social media aspect of their business, which affect none of those things.

Like, have you ever actually sat down and asked yourself why we have a lot of the business regulations we do? And if you have done so, have you considered that there are answers other than 'we want to control you for the sake of controlling you?'

[spinner981]

I was talking about things like natural science or math. And I'm not in the mood to debate the alternatives to evolution or cosmology (yes, they are separate) or decay or w/e.

Still not really a reason to silence beliefs or opinions.

Ya, the evolution page of Wikipedia probably shouldn't be changed to having creationist theories on it, but the vice versa is true for the creationist page. Because those pages represent the leading worldviews, theories, ideologies, etc. of those belief systems. It's not really a place for an open discussion on the truths of the universe but rather a source of information concerning, well, basically anything, and when those pages are about beliefs/worldviews/etc. it doesn't really matter if you think evolution or creationism is wrong, deleting the pages describes each one's theories still shouldn't happen.

I haven't given any examples of people disagreeing with me. Are you saying people don't share propaganda that is proven false on social media?

No, but it happens on both sides, not just one side. If you want to claim that misinformation does harm to somebody, please explain the definition, nuances and outliers to describe exactly what it means to be 'harmed'. Because I don't believe that people are actually physically 'harmed' simply by thinking wrong things.

[Garnier Fructis]

Still not really a reason to silence beliefs or opinions.

Ya, the evolution page of Wikipedia probably shouldn't be changed to having creationist theories on it, but the vice versa is true for the creationist page. Because those pages represent the leading worldviews, theories, ideologies, etc. of those belief systems. It's not really a place for an open discussion on the truths of the universe but rather a source of information concerning, well, basically anything, and when those pages are about beliefs/worldviews/etc. it doesn't really matter if you think evolution or creationism is wrong, deleting the pages describes each one's theories still shouldn't happen.

Those pages are pretty clearly labeled as religion, so there's no misinformation to delete. They're fine as is.

[Incredibale]

I was talking about things like natural science or math. And I'm not in the mood to debate the alternatives to evolution or cosmology (yes, they are separate) or decay or w/e.

Nice backpedal after you got called out. I see this all the time from you people - calling everything misinformation that should be subject to deletion.

Incredibale is obviously a pretty hardcore liberal.

He does talk a lot of crap on "leftists" but to be honest I'm pretty sure that's because he doesn't actually know the difference between left and right. (If you're ever on a road trip with him, don't let him drive or you're going to get lost.)

Anyways, Incredibale, I whole heartedly support your anti-capitalist leanings. *fist bump*

Another post which addresses no points. I can tell you have absolutely nothing on me.

Typical that garbage posts like this don't get infracted.

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For the uninitiated watching this - this is the typical routine here - I make a legitimate post about some issue, I get nearly nothing from the left but sarcasm and posts that don't address the point, it goes into a back and forth, then I'm the troll or whatever.

[Dendrek]

Another post which addresses no points. I can tell you have absolutely nothing on me.

Typical that garbage posts like this don't get infracted.

You start the thread off with this:

Why is it that leftists are virulently anti-property rights and against freedom of association EXCEPT when they own and control various means of communication like FB, Twitter, message boards, etc?

"Freedom for me but not for thee" seems to be the leftist motto these days.

And expect to be taken seriously?

[spinner981]

Those pages are pretty clearly labeled as religion, so there's no misinformation to delete. They're fine as is.

The point is that worldviews, ideas, beliefs, etc. that you don't personally accept shouldn't be deleted just because you (or even society) don't accept them.

Furthermore, being labeled as 'religion' doesn't mean a page is inherently less capable of holding truths or falsities. The truth value of something is determined by whether or not it is true, not simply what people label it as.

[Dendrek]

For the uninitiated watching this - this is the typical routine here - I make a legitimate post about some issue, I get nearly nothing from the left but sarcasm and posts that don't address the point, it goes into a back and forth, then I'm the troll or whatever.

This is a joke, right?

[Incredibale]

You start the thread off with this:



And expect to be taken seriously?

Name one thing wrong with that statement or GTFO.

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This is a joke, right?

This is your third post in this thread which doesn't make an argument.

[Garnier Fructis]

Nice backpedal after you got called out. I see this all the time from you people - calling everything misinformation that should be subject to deletion.

People generally don't backpedal by offering up examples of things where misinformation should be deleted.

But sure, I'll respond in general to Spinner's post because I can. People will call things misinformation for a variety of reasons, legitimate or not. So in the context of wikipedia, we can appeal to experts in the field to determine what is and is not misinformation: we don't look to Ken Ham when writing the Evolution page, and we don't look to Sam Harris for the religion pages.

History pages are also subject to this. People want to make changes to some history because they don't remember it happening that way. But if it conflicts with primary and secondary sources, then we can pretty safely classify it as misinformation. So, sure. There's issues to be had with sorting out accusations of misinformation, but there are heuristic guidelines we use to sort it out.

So no, Incredibale, I didn't packpedal when I got called out. I responded the way I did because that's exactly what I had in mind when I wrote it. I wrote this more general response here just for you.