The Ebon Blade's new Four Horsemen (massive spoilers)

[AlmightyGerkin]

Is Darion being the fourth horseman confirmed?

No hes not. http://wow.gamepedia.com/Four_Horsemen

[Ethenil]

No hes not. http://wow.gamepedia.com/Four_Horsemen

That page doesn't list any sources for the "Tirion" information though. What about this: http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=2257...arion-mograine

[Gabronthe]

Maybe it's the horses.

[Maleific]

Maybe the attempt to raise Tirion fails? And Darion takes his place.

[Zandalariprelate]

Make senses, because raise tyrion would make a war between the ebon blade and all the paladin orden also kill a buch of crusader who are very good fighting demons dont make senses.

[Maxilian]

Yeah, for what? Saving a murderer, a Soldier of the Horde just because of his own self-centered feeling of honor? Attacking man who never did somethign wrong, to save one fel-corrupted brute who only left the Horde because invading a foreign world and attacking a race that never harmed his people was not glorious enough when it happens under a Warlock?

A Self-Sacrifice is only worth something, if it happens for some greater good. Tirion tossed every duty he had away, just because of his own personal honor, that's heroic in your opinion? And I'm wrong, because of what? Because I think in more dimensions than Chris Metzen? Because I just don't think "oooohhhh, pure Eitrigg, he saved Tirion", but also a Soldier of the Horde who had no problems with following the Horde in their conquest against a world that never harmed his people? Because I see a man who participated in both wars, which means he was also one of the soldiers who destroyed stormwind, killing everyone who couldn't flee? Because I don't see some innocent victim of racism, but a man who helped in building up this hatred of the humans against the Orcs? An Murderer and Soldier of a army of criminals and monsters, who never apologized for his crimes, never faced the consequences for his doing? Eitrigg deserved death and the fact that the humans had the mercy not to commit a genocide against a race that consisted of demonic corrupted Monsters, that doesn't change the fact that they have every right to kill a enemy soldier who fled justice. So, how this makes Tirions act a noble act of justice, a worthy self-sacrifice? All I see is a man who saves a criminal, only because he saved him, a Paladin who puts his life over everyone who has suffered under the crimes of the Orcs. Would you call a police-officer who helps a murderer escape, just because he likes him a hero?

What makes it a self sacrifice is not for who he save, what makes it self-sacrifice is that he did it in the conviction that there was an injustice being made and he, as a paladin, had the obligation to stop it (he could be wrong, it doesn't really matter)

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That page doesn't list any sources for the "Tirion" information though. What about this: http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=2257...arion-mograine

That's interesting, it would be nice to see the Ebon Blade failing somehow (Its holy ground in the end, so it makes sense)

[Traveler Voltin]

I will laugh.
Attacks ally and plan fails.

[Nathreim]

So...why are they stronger?

Its a special ritual its not completely known what is required but a person of strong faith is one requirement. As a result the Four Horsemen are stronger when together I guess you could say they buff each other.

[Rhymor]

First, Tirion as a Paladin is already boring as shit and turning him into a Death Knight takes everything away that defined his character without really adding something.

That doesn't really take anything away from Tirion, considering Tirion showcased a desire to do what was necessary to ensure that Azeroth continued to survive and was literally two seconds from donning the Helm of Damnation. Furthermore, Tirion Fordring has absolutely nothing left but his duty to Azeroth, and the guy literally dies at the very beginning of things going to hell. I, for one, don't think the guy would miss the chance to not only redeem his failure, but fight with increased vigor, without the frailty of his own aging, and play a prominent role in ensuring that tomorrow is not a burning ball of burning felfire and instead a better day.

Not to mention, M-RA, but Metzen stepped aside as the head of the lore and writing department for Afrasiabi. So...

[Deleted]

Its a special ritual its not completely known what is required but a person of strong faith is one requirement. As a result the Four Horsemen are stronger when together I guess you could say they buff each other.

The burning Legion will need not one, not two but 8 Tanks in one Raid to fight them

[Zulkhan]

Yeah, for what?

Your opinion about the worthiness of his motivations is absolutely irrelevant in regards of this.

Since you purposely refuse to get it, I'll say it again: your views on the matter are fucking irrelevant (also because there's no point in debating them, you constantly twist them to your convenience) personal sacrifice is personal sacrifice. If a decision of yours causes you to lose the things you care for and gain nothing in return that's the textbook definition of self-sacrifice. Tirion didn't simply face a Scourge apocalypse and lost everything, that's not "self-sacrifice", that's simply losing things in the manner every survivor of Lordaeron endured: self-sacrifice means consciously make the decision to sacrifice the comfort of all those things you care for and make your life whole, gaining nothing in return, in name of what you believe is right. On this regard, not a single Paladin in the world sacrificed more than what Tirion sacrificed.

Besides, I already proved in this very thread that your opinions are built over bias and personal convenience, using dishonest double standards to absolve a character while bashing another. Or the fact that you conveniently forget that Tirion lost everything not for saving Eitrigg but for refusing to forsake an oath.

Have at least the decency to not pretend to possess any reasonability in your absurd crusade.

[Deleted]

Since you purposely refuse to get it, I'll say it again: your views on the matter are fucking irrelevant (also because there's no point in debating them, you constantly twist them to your convenience) personal sacrifice is personal sacrifice. If a decision of yours causes you to lose the things you care for and gain nothing in return that's the textbook definition of self-sacrifice. Tirion didn't simply face a Scourge apocalypse and lost everything, that's not "self-sacrifice", that's simply losing things in the manner every survivor of Lordaeron endured: self-sacrifice means consciously make the decision to sacrifice the comfort of all those things you care for and make your life whole, gaining nothing in return, in name of what you believe is right. On this regard, not a single Paladin in the world sacrificed more than what Tirion sacrificed.

Besides, I already proved in this very thread that your opinions are built over bias and personal convenience, using dishonest double standards to absolve a character while bashing another. Or the fact that you conveniently forget that Tirion lost everything not for saving Eitrigg but for refusing to forsake an oath.

Have at least the decency to not pretend to possess any reasonability in your absurd crusade.

You say not a single Paladin sacrificed more than Tirion sacrificed? He sacrificed a shit. He betrayed, just because of his personal ego. Betrayal is not a personal sacrifice and especially in Wotlk he sacrificed a shit. Ashbringer was purged by the Light of the Dawn, that's even stated in a quest by a Argent Crusade and all Tirion did was letting others die all the time. He let Alliance, Horde and Argent Crusade fight in a stupid tournament, just for his personal amusement. All he did in the end against Arthas was backstabbing him, something a good rogue could have done far earlier and better. And instead of honoring all those Paladins who really have sacrificed something to defeat the Lichking, he let build himself not one, not two but three statues, just to praise his own glory.

[Chipskunk]

You say not a single Paladin sacrificed more than Tirion sacrificed? He sacrificed a shit. He betrayed, just because of his personal ego. Betrayal is not a personal sacrifice and especially in Wotlk he sacrificed a shit. Ashbringer was purged by the Light of the Dawn, that's even stated in a quest by a Argent Crusade and all Tirion did was letting others die all the time. He let Alliance, Horde and Argent Crusade fight in a stupid tournament, just for his personal amusement. All he did in the end against Arthas was backstabbing him, something a good rogue could have done far earlier and better. And instead of honoring all those Paladins who really have sacrificed something to defeat the Lichking, he let build himself not one, not two but three statues, just to praise his own glory.

did it say anywhere tirion commisioned those statues? the tournament was to get people to northrend and get stronger. The only fight where alliance soldiers die is faction champs and that's because they stupidly rushed into a fight against the horde just because garrosh and varian had hardons for each other. Well i suppose that gnome warlock that summons jaraxus was a needless death. ICC was more faction BS.

Ashbringer was cleansed because Mograine threw it to Tirion, it could have stayed corrupted had mograine kept it. That weapon (and Tirion's supersaiyen prayer) saved us all from Arthas as he had clearly won both at light's hope chapel and the frozen throne.

Tirion organized the assault against arthas because he helped form a unified front (argent crusade). That right there is more than any other paladin has done since they decided to wear plate and not be clothy priests.

[AlmightyGerkin]

That page doesn't list any sources for the "Tirion" information though. What about this: http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=2257...arion-mograine

Oh well than that makes my link obsolete. I was sure it was going to be Tirion since the page but guess its Darion now. Although I would like to see Tirion just to piss off Paladins and Lights Hope Chapel.

[Zulkhan]

He betrayed, just because of his personal ego. Betrayal is not a personal sacrifice

Or the fact that you conveniently forget that Tirion lost everything not for saving Eitrigg but for refusing to forsake an oath.

I wonder how many times I'll have to play this game. Arguing logic with someone so invested in bashing a character who keeps telling to herself her own narrative to deny it is the epitome of futility.

[Enthralled]

I wonder how many times I'll have to play this game. Arguing logic with someone so invested in bashing a character who keeps telling to herself her own narrative to deny it is the epitome of futility.

You know, there's an ignore feature available on this forum. This may be the perfect opportunity to use it.

[Zulkhan]

You know, there's an ignore feature available on this forum. This may be the perfect opportunity to use it.

*shrugs* I consider that quite a precious tool to be reserved for very special occasions. Right now I have just one dude in ignore and trust me, you can't even begin to imagine how damn he deserves it.

[Traveler Voltin]

ghost Tirion. "you attack lights hope, cause deaths, just to raise me. what makes you different than arthas?"
Darion: "...."
Ghost Tirion: "now leave"

my wish with this new info.

[Ethenil]

I personally really like Tirion

(as a character not a dk)

[Deleted]

First, Tirion as a Paladin is already boring as shit and turning him into a Death Knight takes everything away that defined his character without really adding something.

Tirion on the other Hand...yeah, what could he add to the Ebon Blade? We all know, a faction conflict between Paladins and Death Knights would be really really awesome, that's why there will probably no consequences for the invading of Light's Hope and the Paladins will eat it.

Well first of all, the orginal horsemens where paladins. And tirion can atleast fight on for this, he have always been a man that was willing to sacrifise himself for the greater good and for honor. ( Warcraft book" of blood and honor" ) And many big paladins have been turned into DK so is quit normal and fitting.