Should forced sterilizations be used as a form of Punishment?

[obdigore]

First you say this

see I'm not this evil monster many try to paint me as

Then you say this:

but would like to add I wouldn't be against forced birth control as term of a probation till the x-con proves he or she would be a responsible parent and the kids they have would be raised as productive law abiding citizens

And you just ruined it.

[Dextroden]

The temperamental traits of sociopathy and psychopathy are genetic.

Those alone make the offspring of sociopaths and psychopaths have an additional risk of committing crimes of a similar vein if they inherit those traits.

Of course, there are various other factors involved....

Does that mean we should lock up or kill the children of criminals preemptively?

[Vyxn]

The temperamental traits of sociopathy and psychopathy are genetic.

Those alone make the offspring of sociopaths and psychopaths have an additional risk of committing crimes of a similar vein if they inherit those traits.

Of course, there are various other factors involved....

I don't believe in that until they locate a gene that causes it I don't feel it is genetic. Have they fond the gene that does? it is about culture how the kid is raised
unless they have done studies with many subjects of kids born from sociopaths and psychopaths removed at birth raised in a different culture and become sociopaths and psychopaths them selves you might have a valid argument

[PosPosPos]

Does that mean we should lock up or kill the children of criminals preemptively?

No, I was just simply pointing out established scientific facts. If people want to justify culling those genetically vulnerable, it's their choice, not mine. I am neither for or against something like this.

[Dextroden]

No, I was just simply pointing out established scientific facts. If people want to justify culling those genetically vulnerable, it's their choice, not mine. I am neither for or against something like this.

I'm just saying. If we're playing the genetics game, then jailing the children of criminals can only reduce the rate of crime, right?

Everyone likes to complain justice is too reactive. Now, it can be ahead of the curve until we get the precrime labs ready.

[PosPosPos]

I don't believe in that until they locate a gene that causes it I don't feel it is genetic. Have they fond the gene that does? it is about culture how the kid is raised
unless they have done studies with many subjects of kids born from sociopaths and psychopaths removed at birth raised in a different culture and become sociopaths and psychopaths them selves you might have a valid argument

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...06322302018310

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjourn...223&mobileUi=0

Just because you are too lazy to google it, doesn't mean they don't exist as established facts already.

This is merely aggression and anger control too.

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I'm just saying. If we're playing the genetics game, then jailing the children of criminals can only reduce the rate of crime, right?

Everyone likes to complain justice is too reactive. Now, it can be ahead of the curve until we get the precrime labs ready.

Like the scenario in Psycho Pass? I don't really mind if something like that came to pass.

[Dextroden]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...06322302018310

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjourn...223&mobileUi=0

Just because you are too lazy to google it, doesn't mean they don't exist as established facts already.

This is merely aggression and anger control too.

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Like the scenario in Psycho Pass? I don't really mind if something like that came to pass.

I was going for minority report, where seers see you commit the crime and send cops to arrest you before hand.

Is there just an anime for every possible scenario under the sun? (OT: Sounds interesting)

[obdigore]

its got nothing to do with revenge its the criminals choice to commit a crime

so if he is sterilized it was 100% his choice for it to happen

but this could only happen for crimes after the new laws have been set in place

But it is revenge. What function does the sterilization do to prevent the crime from happening again?

[PosPosPos]

I was going for minority report, where seers see you commit the crime and send cops to arrest you before hand.

Is there just an anime for every possible scenario under the sun? (OT: Sounds interesting)

Don't really know, but Psycho Pass is probably a must watch if you are interested in a believable system that criminalizes people purely based on their predispositions.

[Vyxn]

First you say this

Then you say this:


And you just ruined it.

why is that wrong? we give a lot of restrictions and conditions as terms of probation from not allowing them to associate with others on probation to prohibited entering bars. so why is requiring them to be on birth control till they can prove their children wont grow up being criminals them selves wrong? why would you want a child being born from a parent if that parent isn't responsible enough to raise that kid so that kid wont grow up to be a criminal them selves? it is no different then criminals losing custody of their children and cant get them back till they prove they have become law abiding productive citizens and good parents. once they prove they are law abiding responsible citizens that requirement will be removed

as a side story I knew this women that went to jail for a few years for multiple drug charges to identity theft. lost custody of her two children. got out of jail got pregnant, and was allowed to keep that baby, but couldn't get her two kids that was taken back. because they say she hasn't shown she is responsible enough to get those two back. so if she isn't responsible enough to get those two back how is she responsible enough to keep the one she just had?

[PosPosPos]

But it is revenge. What function does the sterilization do to prevent the crime from happening again?

If the criminal has traits that are inheritable which contribute significantly to crime, sterilization would remove that possibility.

[Dextroden]

If the criminal has traits that are inheritable which contribute significantly to crime, sterilization would remove that possibility.

Except if they spawn kids beforehand or leave a semen/egg sample to be used later.

Then we come back to killing or jailing the kids.

[PosPosPos]

Except if they spawn kids beforehand or leave a semen/egg sample to be used later.

Then we come back to killing or jailing the kids.

Probably, and then my response is "So?"

To me, I only care about the bigger picture(i.e. pros and cons to society), rather than inconsequential details like whether they are kids or adults.

A strong argument can be made that sterilization of serious and violent criminals and restricting the freedoms of potential criminals are beneficial to the greater good(provided we have the technology to support making such judgments), so looking at the bigger picture I won't go out of my way to support such measures, but I won't be opposed to them either.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I'm okay with Sex Offenders volunteering for chemical castration in exchange for lighter sentences.

But sterilization is a different thing. For one, it violates bodily autonomy and for another it punishes the offender even after he/she has paid their debt to society.

[Dextroden]

Probably, and then my response is "So?"

To me, I only care about the bigger picture(i.e. pros and cons to society), rather than inconsequential details like whether they are kids or adults.

A strong argument can be made that sterilization of serious and violent criminals and restricting the freedoms of potential criminals are beneficial to the greater good(provided we have the technology to support making such judgments), so looking at the bigger picture I won't go out of my way to support such measures, but I won't be opposed to them either.

Something something sins of the father.

I don't think we want to open that box.

[araine]

So in our class, we had a debate as for the ethicacy of forcible sterilizations of very serious violent criminals. Some of the arguments were that children born from convicted violent criminals tend to have a much higher risk of becomming a criminal when compared to the general public even when income and education was factored. And the point is if we'd just serialized all serious violent criminals as part of the condition for the possibility of parole, that could dramatically cut down violent crime.

Do you support the notion that ALL seriously violent crime (Rape, Child molestation, serious assault and battery, etc) should carry a mandatory life sentence, and that the possibility of parole will be added IF the criminal agrees to the sterilization?

IMO, if you violate the law, you give up your right to reproduce. I personally do not see the right of reproduction as a fundamental human right if you are a violent individual. Society has the obligation to protect the right of life and safety for everyone. You are not just effecting yourself, you are effecting another person: the person being born. But a counter point is that this would be a slippery slope to potential serious human rights violations...

What are your thoughts on this issue? I'm a bit torn...

It isnt a slippery slope it is a blatant human rights violation but fascism wets there pants over the prospect of having no human rights left

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

"paid debit to society" is a fucking horrible thing to say when dealing with people who take away the rights of other humans

how do you pay for the life of another human
how do you pay for rape and destroying somebody emotionally
how do you pay for disfiguring somebody

Well, the criminal justice system imposes time in prison in accordance with these crimes. If the courts deem it necessary...they can send someone away for the remainder of their natural life and, in some places, they can even have that person put to death.

[Chirri]

The very idea leaves me squeamish, particularly with the way the justice system works in my country.

[PosPosPos]

Something something sins of the father.

I don't think we want to open that box.

/shrug

Change is scary, and the biggest can of worms opened was money anyway so nothing after that should really faze me.

[Vyxn]

But that's the point. It violates the rights of the convicted while serving no established purpose other than imposing another inhumanity on a person some people feel deserves it.

would you disagree with required birth control as terms of probation till they prove they would be responsible and law abiding?
it is no different then criminals losing custody of their children and cant get them back till the prove they are responsible parent