Demonic Servitude

[Duckz0rs]

Agreed Keniwa. Despite all the issues with the talent, as a whole has some inherent design problems which are impossible to balance now that Dark Soul is gone...

- Warlocks feels like the don't have a cooldown
- Doomguard is buffed significantly to compensate
- Doomguard is now so powerful that Demonic Servitude is automatically the go-to talent
- Doomguard is now so powerful that Grimoire of Service is automatically the go-to talent
- Blizzard don't like this so can either:
--- 1) Buff the other 2 100 talents, the 2 other Grimoire talents and then rebalance the spec around these
--- 2) Nerf the Doomguard
- Number 2 is easier to do so Doomguard is nerfed to the ground
- And the cycle starts again

They could also balance the permanent Doomguard and Infernal seperately from the CD version. Although that doesn't seem likely given the latest post they made on it.

[Esinar]

i am VERY up to date, cupcake.

<snip>

You can't? Dawww what a pity!

Oh my, what a child. Hard to get any opinion to stick when you are totally ignorant to other's views and be objective about them. If you have to resort to baby rage, name-calling (if that's what that attempt was supposed to be?) and start wording out noises it's clear you can't be taken seriously in a conversion. Peace my friend, I can't take you seriously on this matter.

[Gaidax]

Oh my, what a child. Hard to get any opinion to stick when you are totally ignorant to other's views and be objective about them. If you have to resort to baby rage, name-calling (if that's what that attempt was supposed to be?) and start wording out noises it's clear you can't be taken seriously in a conversion. Peace my friend, I can't take you seriously on this matter.

Translation: "someone called my bullshit so I have to damage control ASAP."

Is this also a "spec fantasy"?

[Keniwa]

Translation: "someone called my bullshit so I have to damage control ASAP."

Is this also a "spec fantasy"?

Very well. Sorry for using the word "Spec fantasy", I can see that is the only problem you have with anything here. I didn't make this thread to argue with someone who doesn't like the wording spec fantasy. I made it to shine light on some of the problems I see with the talent. So have a nice day.

I still stand by my opinion. I don't feel the talent has any place in legion. Due to all the reason listed earlier in this thread.

[bloodmoth13]

Compromise? put it on the same tier as GoSac, and give it a 3 min CD damage talent to make up for the lost CDs?

[Deleted]

Me saying it works against the spec fantasy is not even wrong. Blizzard did specifically say that each warlock spec will have 1 of the pets feel unique to the spec. As I see it the talent doesn't have a place in the talent system if that is how they want to design each spec. What is the point in having all this uniqueness to each pet to just remove it with a talent.

No one forces you to take that talent (unless Blizzard purposefully makes the other tier talent trash but thats just bad design).

Even if you have the felguard as the unique demon for demonology spec, demonology warlocks have always switched between the other regular pets when needed (succubus, voidwalker, felhound,etc...). So "spec fantasy" would mean that you are forced to play with one unique pet? Thats weird given that the Legion demo spec is actually using many many demons at the same time. You don't have to use only one demon

[Esinar]

Translation: "someone called my bullshit so I have to damage control ASAP."

Is this also a "spec fantasy"?

On the contrary, I just don't wanna spend my Saturday finding a random video from 4 months ago to appease one guy. If you want to go search yourself though go for it. It was during one of those 5-10 minute one-on-one interviews I think when they were at that table.

Incidentally, if you want to discuss why you think Demonic Servitude should absolutely remain in the game without trying to bash every pro-removal comment in this thread then I'd be happy to engage with you.

Like I said before though, I'm not that bothered if Demonic Servitude stays in the game if it has to, I just don't want it to automatically be the most powerful talent rendering the others obsolete. I enjoy interaction in my spec and being forced to take this passive talent for mythic raiding as it yields the best results will suck for those that enjoy that aspect.

[gruxxar]

Seeing the last blizz response regarding demo, i think its starting to look like serv is here to stay. I assume blizz just has a complete different PoV on the matter so Let's just hope it wont be the go to talent and let the plebs have their demon.

[Deleted]

they send mass invitations to mythic raider and wonder why no one plays it. nah its because its undertuned lol. jesus christ, maybe we dont like it because its brainless and boring as shit. how can a class designer be so clueless? the only reason we played DS in BRF is because of demonbolt nerfs. if DS is going to outperform other talents yet again I will of course take it but wont enjoy the class. I want to be rewarded for my skill. someone who is not putting same effort like me but has the same/better results is beyond dumb. im fine with DS as long as its inferior to other talents.

[Gaidax]

they send mass invitations to mythic raider and wonder why no one plays it. nah its because its undertuned lol. jesus christ, maybe we dont like it because its brainless and boring as shit. how can a class designer be so clueless?

We don't play it because it is the only talent there which is virtually the same as live, so there is little interest for me to try it out, because I know how it works anyway.

[Netherspark]

Because it doesn't work with that whole "Spec Fantasy" blizzard is trying to do. They want each spec to have 1 unique pet that fits the spec.

This was something only mentioned in passing, and we've seen no evidence of it happening. And frankly I don't want it to, it's a horrible idea.

They did it before in Wrath & Cataclysm and people hated it.

[Duckz0rs]

No one forces you to take that talent (unless Blizzard purposefully makes the other tier talent trash but thats just bad design).

Yeah, except that eventually it will outscale both Demonbolt for ST and Summon Whateverit'sgoingtobe for AoE/Cleave. That's why it's such a flawed idea; it's the big, and only, dps cooldown. Speaking purely mechanically, imagine if mages had a talent to make Icy Veins a permanent buff. How can any other talent possibly numerically compete with that? Guess we're in for an identical roller coaster ride of nerfs and buffs throughout the expansion if they don't tweak them separately from the CD version. On top of that, if you take GoService you don't lose the cooldown. You get a version with a longer duration and shorter CD.

[Esinar]

This was something only mentioned in passing, and we've seen no evidence of it happening. And frankly I don't want it to, it's a horrible idea.

They did it before in Wrath & Cataclysm and people hated it.

I assumed you meant "some people" and not people in general because there were those on both sides. Some that said they didn't like the removal of choice, but others said it helped make the choice of pet clearer. There will always be people at both ends.

Also the evidence is there on the alpha atm that they're trying to make each spec use one pet. The Felhunter's main attack Shadow Bite deals 50% more damage per DoT on the target making it Affliction's best choice. Felguard is unique in that it is only available for Demonology and it deals definitively more damage than the other base pets making it the pet of choice there. I don't know how Destruction plays out yet, but I'm sure there will be something there also, such as Imp's Firebolts counting as Destruction spells so are affected by the mastery and Havoc.

The idea of one pet per spec is definitely evident.

[Gaidax]

Imp Firebolt does 50% more damage to Immolated targets.

And yes, they said that some demons will be preferred by some specs, it's not some mystery there. Using another demon is okay as utility value.

[Deleted]

Didn´t see this thread at first but there was some discussion in the Demo alpha thread regarding Demonic Servitude and this is my 2 cents on it.

I wouldn´t want it removed as something warlocks can specc into as it fills some kind of fantasy niche.
But I would like it to be a part of grimoire of supremacy instead.
Though the synergy that Demonic servitude has with grimoire of service is nice and all it does kinda make GoServ sort of mandatory if specced into DS.

Since GoSup will loose the alternate forms this talent will loose a bit of flavour and getting flavour back through merging with DS might be good for the talent.
It forces people to give up a dps cd for picking this new GoSup as it is on the same tier as GoServ and could allow GoSup to increase damage of pets even further and still have GoServ, GoSac (GoSyn for demo) be competetive with it.

Don´t even think they need to change the name as Supremacy does sound powerful enought to include binding doomguards and infernals to ones will.
And it unlocks a new level 100 talent options for all speccs.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

I don't know why, if they're insistent on keeping this talent, they don't just make this summon a permanent guardian so that you can keep your original pet too (or sacrifice it). It would allow the player to retain some choice while still having the 'cool' factor. They've shown they have the tech to do it with the beast master artifact pet too.

[scrappybristol]

Why not just make Demonic Servitude have Doomguard last twice as long?

[Gohzerlock]

There is no arguing with the OP, I don't even know why he made a thread if he isn't open to discussion.

I think the only thing in regards to servitude you've said to me that makes sense is it's an entry level passive for new players, honestly you could just make it a different passive... just because most people dislike servitude doesn't mean they want "more buttons" like you keep saying. You strip the talent cosmetically and it might as well be "your pet does x more damage". That's the gripe, I don't know why you don't get it.

Yes we have other level 100 talents, it isn't an excuse for one to be boring flat garbage. Don't forget doomguard / infernal is supposed to be a major cd in legion without dark soul.

[Gaidax]

You strip the talent cosmetically and it might as well be "your pet does x more damage". That's the gripe

But that is just not true?

The talent does provide you with 2 additional demons with unique abilities, it's not the same thing at all as making your whatever demon do more damage. Doomguard is a ranged caster with interrupt and (pretty badass) slow and is the only demon besides Imp that does damage at range and Infernal does give additional AoE stun and as a matter of fact the only demon besides Felguard that can AoE at all. This talent also improves your mobility by offloading more damage to the ranged demon, so you can keep outputting more damage than you otherwise could on the move.

You simply chose not to see that with your blind hatred to this talent for whatever the reason that is - we have plenty talents which are much worse in Legion, but for some reason we have this ridiculous laser sight lock on one single talent that you people are up in arms against for a bunch of ridiculous non-reasons really.

Is it so hard to swallow the fact that plenty people do like this talent and even find use for it besides just damage?

That talent is absolutely fine.

[Swoon]

hey guys, lets complain about the set bonuses being boring too and lets throw around more buzzwords to make it seem like we are actually making valid points

we are also going to ignore that the game is in early alpha and all of the other amazing changes they have made are irrelevant because there's one talent that seems boring in your opinions because summoning two big demons is awful and should be removed from the game completely

let's not talk about how there's plenty of other talents in far worse spots in terms of gameplay and mandatory use, it sucks that warlocks have always been in such a poor spot that a single talent that lets you summon two of your main dps demons is the highlight of the complaining

/s