Please stop trying to take away Mythic Raiding

[Granyala]

Problem: blizzard doesn't want to raise the skill floor to raid, they want every "moron and his mom" to afk through some iteration of the same content so they can show the beancounters how "popular" raiding is.

[Osmeric]

Problem: blizzard doesn't want to raise the skill floor to raid, they want every "moron and his mom" to afk through some iteration of the same content so they can show the beancounters how "popular" raiding is.

Because those darned beancounters are more interested in making money for the shareholders instead of buffing your ego.

It's so unfair, I know.

[Cebel]

Because those darned beancounters are more interested in making money for the shareholders instead of buffing your ego.

It's so unfair, I know.

yea dropping 5 million subs has really calmed those shareholders nerves for WoW.

[kary]

Problem: blizzard doesn't want to raise the skill floor to raid, they want every "moron and his mom" to afk through some iteration of the same content so they can show the beancounters how "popular" raiding is.

More like, Blizzard reduced the skill floor because asking people to participate in queued content wasn't happening.

[Granyala]

Because those darned beancounters are more interested in making money for the shareholders instead of buffing your ego.

It's so unfair, I know.

What Ego? I don't raid anymore. Wrong person to flame, sorry. ^^

On the contrary, I'd welcome a bit more interesting LFR in Legion, so bosses are more than simple animated target dummies for raidbuffed DPS tests.

[Osmeric]

yea dropping 5 million subs has really calmed those shareholders nerves for WoW.

Yea being hardcore would have done better. Totally! Players love being excluded. Maybe Blizzard should buy electric pain collars for WoW players, if they're so into masochism.

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What Ego? I don't raid anymore. Wrong person to flame, sorry. ^^

Sorry too.

[Granyala]

More like, Blizzard reduced the skill floor because asking people to participate in queued content wasn't happening.

Well to be realistic, there are 2 methods to make LFR work:

More challenging LFR with rewards borderline interesting to normal raiders -> raiders carry them completely unskilled players (MoP approach)
Superduper easy w/o any interesting rewards at all -> unskilled players can do it on their own b/c raiders are no longer present. (WoD approach)

[kary]

Well to be realistic, there are 2 methods to make LFR work:

More challenging LFR with rewards borderline interesting to normal raiders -> raiders carry them completely unskilled players (MoP approach)
Superduper easy w/o any interesting rewards at all -> unskilled players can do it on their own b/c raiders are no longer present. (WoD approach)

So you get either
a) runs that take hours and are soul cleaving
or
b) less painful runs without any welfare gear handed to you for participation.

Normal HFC is easy as shit, and you can reliably find a pug for this 24 hours a day. People just choose not to do it.

[Granyala]

Normal HFC is easy as shit, and you can reliably find a pug for this 24 hours a day. People just choose not to do it.

Yep that's the inertia of having to manually group and get past idiots asking for overcooked requirements.

People want to do content. They don't want to pass an armory/achievement audit before doing so. That's why the queue systems are so popular.

[kary]

Yep that's the inertia of having to manually group and get past idiots asking for overcooked requirements.

People want to do content. They don't want to pass an armory/achievement audit before doing so. That's why the queue systems are so popular.

If people really wanted to clear content, they'd make attempts to gear their character past "equip all da purplez"
If I'm running a pug, hell yes I'm going to armory people. Itemlevel isn't really that important, but giving a shit is. If you don't give a shit about anything, find another group to carry you. Enchants in WoD are practically free. You don't even need an enchanter for most of the enchants, like... at least try?

[Granyala]

I don't disagree with you kary. I would do the same (- the ridiculous item level requirements 710+ for normal? yeah right).
I'm merely explaining why so many shy away from manual grouping.

[Cebel]

Yea being hardcore would have done better. Totally! Players love being excluded. Maybe Blizzard should buy electric pain collars for WoW players, if they're so into masochism.

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Sorry too.

Yea.... we're masochists because we want a game to not reward people for logging in, pressing a button, and then going afk for 20 minutes... God forbid. Jesus man give it a rest.

[Granyala]

Yea.... we're masochists because we want a game to not reward people for logging in, pressing a button, and then going afk for 20 minutes... God forbid. Jesus man give it a rest.

To be honest: I wouldn't exactly call the current LFR gear "rewarding".
I mean have you looked at that hideous (design and stat wise) crap?

[kary]

I don't disagree with you kary. I would do the same (- the ridiculous item level requirements 710+ for normal? yeah right).
I'm merely explaining why so many shy away from manual grouping.

High ilvl is usually what's done to compensate the pug derpiness.

I should join a run on my dk and compare pug ilvl to output.

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To be honest: I wouldn't exactly call the current LFR gear "rewarding".
I mean have you looked at that hideous (design and stat wise) crap?

LFR set isn't as awful as people make it out to be.

For instance with the tank/healer sets... they give you bonus armor and spirit as set bonuses. Those are basically flat performance upgrades, low ilvl gear for tanks especially has jack shit for bonus armor. (my alt protadin has 500 bonus armor as I type this, compared to my dk alt's 1800). 4set is a damage shield that scales with resolve. Survivability that works for all plate classes. It's supposed to be a stepping stone, not the be all end all.

[Granyala]

It's supposed to be a stepping stone, not the be all end all.

Yeah. Everything in WoW is a stepping stone into raiding. I think that's part of the problem.

[Osmeric]

Yea.... we're masochists because we want a game to not reward people for logging in, pressing a button, and then going afk for 20 minutes... God forbid. Jesus man give it a rest.

Way to totally misrepresent what I wrote. Good job!

[kary]

Yeah. Everything in WoW is a stepping stone into raiding. I think that's part of the problem.

It's always been the formula though, zzzzzz
You either slayed dragons, or slayed other folks at max level. Literally nothing has ever changed

[Granyala]

It's always been the formula though, zzzzzz
You either slayed dragons, or slayed other folks at max level. Literally nothing has ever changed

Pretty much .. yup.

Except now there is a mode where the Dragons head has already been chopped off and people get to witness the last twitches of it's corpse while beating around on it for a few minutes until it stops twitching.
That is called "LFR raiding".

[cFortyfive]

To be honest: I wouldn't exactly call the current LFR gear "rewarding".
I mean have you looked at that hideous (design and stat wise) crap?

The current iteration isn't but the former certainly was pretty rewarding for standing around afk.

[Granyala]

The current iteration isn't but the former certainly was pretty rewarding for standing around afk.

You mean MoP?

Yup.
Even farmed the Throne of Thunder LFR set for my mage because I really liked the color scheme.