PSA: Do not buy any PC games through the Windows 10 Store.

[Breccia]

I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you. I had no idea there was a Windows 10 store.

[Edge-]

Oh the nostalgia. When Steam, which is an intrusive, greedy DRM tool at heart, was new, we had similar threads by the dozen. All it takes for the lemmings to jump, is one really really hyped game. Five years from now, most of us will be Windows store customers.

Steam was awful back then. But they didn't have any models to look to for guidance on how to not suck and had to figure shit out on their own. Valve has done a pretty great job of building it into a decent service over the years and it's a model that other storefronts have based their own implementations off of.

So when a company, especially a AAA publisher like Microsoft (or Ubisoft, or EA) that absolutely does not lack funding or talent, releases vastly inferior versions people rightfully complain. EA has been making an effort to improve Origin both in terms of offerings and functionality (it's lightyears better now), Ubisoft has made uPlay slightly less obnoxious but it still pointlessly sits there, and you don't hear much in the way of complaints about GoG Galaxy because, well, it works pretty damn well (from what I've read) and isn't mandatory.

After Microsoft screwed up big time with GFWL, they don't really have much goodwill stored up with PC gamers, so them coming right out of the gate with patently ludicrous limitations on games released through their new storefront, limitations which are not seen in any other platform, damn straight people are going to give them shit.

[Deleted]

@Edge-

I fully agree with the OP and you. I just wanted to point out, that his and your and my dies irae is most likely not going to last.

[Paula Deen]

Truly Phil Spencer cares about PC Gaming!

[smackyslap]

Holy smokes that was way to cinematic for me.

[Phurox]

Truly Phil Spencer cares about PC Gaming!

To be fair many games runs like garbage on AMD . This is nothing new.

[paralleluniverse]

Because Microsoft is realizing there's a lot of money to be made on PC and wants back into that market, especially since they're trailing far behind Sony in the console market. They realize if they can have their platform essentially be PC and Xbox One they have a big edge over Sony.

They're already in the market.

PC games run on Windows and Windows is made by Microsoft.

- - - Updated - - -

1. NO Dual GPU support like SLI or Crossfire.
2. NO disabling of Vsync, which can lead to input lag and worse performance.
3. NO dedicated fullscreen, only borderless Windows, which again screws with performance.
4. NO Modding. So no mods, no SweetFX and no 3rd party improvements.
5. NO Exe, so you can't add it to Steam as a non-steam game, and thus no Steam controller support.
6. NO Overlays. You can't do a steam overlay, you can't have a Fraps FPS counter, you can't have Overwolf. This ALSO means that you can't use Fraps or OBS to record the game window. You can still record the full monitor, but not the window itself.
7. NO mouse macros.
8. NO easy way to refund the game. For refunds, you have to chat with a representative, so you're not even sure you could get it refunded.
9. NO cross-platform purchasing. If you decide to rollback to Windows 7 or 8, you won't be able to take your store games with you. Same for Linux, SteamOS and OS X.
10. NO store-based support for the game. If you want to have support for your game, you'll have to go through the Steam forums. There is no easy way for developers to provide support through the Windows store.

All of these issues should be fixed.

But all of these issues also occur on consoles. Yet hypocritically, I don't see anyone complaining about that.

[Mormolyce]

I see MS has kept the unique user experience they've had since GFWL alive.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh the nostalgia. When Steam, which is an intrusive, greedy DRM tool at heart, was new, we had similar threads by the dozen. All it takes for the lemmings to jump, is one really really hyped game. Five years from now, most of us will be Windows store customers.

Mmmm. Like we all became dedicated Origin customers?

And like, this is Microsoft we're talking about here, so...

[Edge-]

They're already in the market.

PC games run on Windows and Windows is made by Microsoft.

But they're not making any money off of those software sales. So while they exist in that market, they're not an active part of it.

All of these issues should be fixed.

But all of these issues also occur on consoles. Yet hypocritically, I don't see anyone complaining about that.

It's almost like we're talking about PC, where these issues don't exist in games released through other platforms, and not consoles. These restrictions are, to my knowledge, not in place for games released through Steam, uPlay, Origin etc.

[paralleluniverse]

But they're not making any money off of those software sales. So while they exist in that market, they're not an active part of it.



It's almost like we're talking about PC, where these issues don't exist in games released through other platforms, and not consoles. These restrictions are, to my knowledge, not in place for games released through Steam, uPlay, Origin etc.

Doesn't matter. Consoles have had these issues since the beginning of time, and yet no one complains about that. If console gamers can suffer through this obviously ATROCIOUS AND INSUFFERABLE experience, then PC gamers will survive too while they fix this up.

Rise of the Tomb Raider is the first and currently only proper game that is using UWP, so understandably, it is not yet perfect. But this is another example of the soft bigotry of low expectations, where other companies get away with crap while Microsoft gets lambasted for the same thing. Like Tim Sweeny blasting UWP as a walled garden which Microsoft is leveraging to control developers. Yet, Apple and Android are exactly the same. In fact, Apple has already perfected having everything completely locked down.

It's only a problem when Microsoft does it.

[zealo]

Doesn't matter. Consoles have had these issues since the beginning of time, and yet no one complains about that. If console gamers can suffer through this obviously ATROCIOUS AND INSUFFERABLE experience, then PC gamers will survive too while they fix this up.

The way a console OS works are also essentially a walled garden in comparison to PC.

Its a bit like comparing apples and oranges, expecting what flies on one platform to be fine for all of them because of that. A PS4 is just a game console with multimedia capabilities. A PC on the other hand, is not just a game station, just something that can be done on it while really being a workstation in its basis as a platform.

People's expectations on what should be doable are different because of this. No one will ever complain about consoles being a locked down environment, because that's what consoles have been for a long time. PC though, its been an open platform for multiple decades now, and thus expectations are set a bit higher.

[Dhrizzle]

Nvidia is an issue with Gsync monitors only. Also it is amusing how you shift the blame completely to M$ while excusing Nvidia and AMD. It is a console port which can end badly for anyone. It is also DirectX 12 which is relatively new and can cause issues itself. Its not like launch problems are a rarity. It happens with every platform and every developer. There is no need to bring out the pitchforks against M$ like you seem to be wanting.

It's absolutely Microsoft's fault in the same way the Batman issue was Warner's fault, the various Ass Creed issues were Ubisoft's fault and a humongous list of technical errors are EA's fault.

Publishers often think they can skimp on QA, and whilst I think it's normal for there to be a few errors on some sytems occasionally we often get situations where games are unplayable on a lot of systems.

[Edge-]

Doesn't matter. Consoles have had these issues since the beginning of time, and yet no one complains about that.

It does matter, actually. Because, as you said, consoles have always had these issues. So there's never been a time where people gaming on console haven't had these issues. PC gamers? These are all new issues that have not been, and are not present on other platforms. If you don't understand the difference, then I don't know what to tell. you.

If console gamers can suffer through this obviously ATROCIOUS AND INSUFFERABLE experience, then PC gamers will survive too while they fix this up.

Or...OR! PC gamers will just continue to primarily use other platforms that don't have these arbitrary and stupid limitations until Microsoft decides to take a look at the current market and get up to speed. So it's Microsoft's choice whether they want to have GFWL 2.0 (which they're on track for) or actually make a serious attempt.

Rise of the Tomb Raider is the first and currently only proper game that is using UWP, so understandably, it is not yet perfect. But this is another example of the soft bigotry of low expectations, where other companies get away with crap while Microsoft gets lambasted for the same thing.

Cool, it's the first big game to use UWP. There are definitely some expectations of bugs etc. But many of these limitations are ludicrous, and people are rightfully complaining about them to Microsoft. "Bigotry" made me laugh though, nice one on that. What other companies get away with it? EA and Ubisoft have both been slammed for their platforms shitdickery over the years and both have improved. GoG launched with a pretty solid platform and a ton of goodwill. Valve have had to fight an uphill battle with Steam for years before finally managing to turn it into something decent, now they've got the goodwill but still get called on shit and criticized.

Like Tim Sweeny blasting UWP as a walled garden which Microsoft is leveraging to control developers. Yet, Apple and Android are exactly the same. In fact, Apple has already perfected having everything completely locked down.

Good thing he doesn't really work on Apple/Android, but rather works on PC. He's not giving either one of them a pass, he doesn't work on them. Not to mention, both have been that way for a very long time now (did Android launch that way? Don't remember, I feel like iOS did) whereas PC absolutely has not.

So again, you're comparing apples to oranges.

It's only a problem when Microsoft does it.

No, this is some victim mentality bullshit. It's a problem when anyone does it, and others have been called on it when applicable (most folks have resigned that Apple platforms are not for PC gaming, hence the constant jokes, and nobody really cares about mobile here).

[paralleluniverse]

It does matter, actually. Because, as you said, consoles have always had these issues. So there's never been a time where people gaming on console haven't had these issues. PC gamers? These are all new issues that have not been, and are not present on other platforms. If you don't understand the difference, then I don't know what to tell. you.



Or...OR! PC gamers will just continue to primarily use other platforms that don't have these arbitrary and stupid limitations until Microsoft decides to take a look at the current market and get up to speed. So it's Microsoft's choice whether they want to have GFWL 2.0 (which they're on track for) or actually make a serious attempt.



Cool, it's the first big game to use UWP. There are definitely some expectations of bugs etc. But many of these limitations are ludicrous, and people are rightfully complaining about them to Microsoft. "Bigotry" made me laugh though, nice one on that. What other companies get away with it? EA and Ubisoft have both been slammed for their platforms shitdickery over the years and both have improved. GoG launched with a pretty solid platform and a ton of goodwill. Valve have had to fight an uphill battle with Steam for years before finally managing to turn it into something decent, now they've got the goodwill but still get called on shit and criticized.



Good thing he doesn't really work on Apple/Android, but rather works on PC. He's not giving either one of them a pass, he doesn't work on them. Not to mention, both have been that way for a very long time now (did Android launch that way? Don't remember, I feel like iOS did) whereas PC absolutely has not.

So again, you're comparing apples to oranges.



No, this is some victim mentality bullshit. It's a problem when anyone does it, and others have been called on it when applicable (most folks have resigned that Apple platforms are not for PC gaming, hence the constant jokes, and nobody really cares about mobile here).

The "it's been that way" argument. So if in 10 years time, these problems don't get fix (and no, this won't kill the Windows Store, almost no one cares about these problem as proved by the fact that console gamers give it zero shits), then it's suddenly not a problem anymore.

[May90]

3. NO dedicated fullscreen, only borderless Windows, which again screws with performance.

Lol, what is this, 1990?

[Orangetai420]

You forgot one: You cannot choose the install location. That alone has kept me far away from that place.

wat.

It's 2016, how is that possible?!

[klogaroth]

wat.

It's 2016, how is that possible?!

You can pick the drive, but that's it.

It's a move away from the traditional folder structure of PCs to the way that phones and tablets organise things. In no small part due to the fact that the windows store is supposed to unify all those devices. The user doesn't really need to do anything with regards to the file structure, and apps come in packages.

The idea is that everything should be as neat and tidy as possible, without any messy user interaction screwing things up. Just press the button and it works.

The problem is that philosophy doesn't really work too well if people want to mod a game that doesn't come with dedicated modding tools designed to work within the new structure.

It also sort of contributes to a growing problem in tech. People don't have the way into coding that they used to. Much is made of how kids grow up surrounded by technology, but they're surrounded by technology that just works. They might be able to use an ipad, but they've never seen a line of code in their life. Even really high level code, never mind low level programming. Like having a car with the whole engine locked away and only accessible by mechanics.