No Point in Voting in Democratic Caucuses?

[Flatspriest]

Think Bernie got the irony of working really hard for something just for it to be redistributed to someone who didn't earn it?

Oh, so he fell victim to socialism? He worked hard for it and it was given to someone else instead.

[Mormolyce]

Not really a capitalist so no. I do vote conservative nut only because the party is closer to what I want. I'm just enjoying the irony.

Votes conservative but isn't capitalist?

That's like taking the shitty part of both ideologies with none of the up side.

[Malachi256]

A vote for Sanders may not get him elected, but it still sends a message. If you really believe in his platform, you should vote for him. If you don't like the delegate system, you should vote for him, just to bring further attention to it.

[Ghostpanther]

Funny, polls say otherwise.

Funny how you leave out the ones which show he does like http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...d-to-head-poll

[Fugus]

Super delegates are about 1/6th the total number of delegates - meaning, 5/6ths of the delegates are awarded based on the vote.

A great deal of it has to do with how they can kill momentum before it starts and how they can be used to basically lie to the public with a half truth about how supported a candidate really is at the beginning. You can witness that when you see places comparing delegates between Hillary and Bernie and how they lump in the Super Delegates with Hillarie's delegates like she earned them in the vote or something.

As for the OP. you have a choice, you can either try and possibly fail, or not try and be guaranteed to fail.

As it stands though, Trump is a foregone conclusion on the republican side if the trend continues unless they commit suicide for their entire party trying to ignore him after winning and watching him run as an independent.

On the Democrat side, you have Bernie actually standing a chance if we can motivate more to vote. After that, the election comes down to this, if Bernie Sanders wins the election, he is pretty well a sure victory in the general as he has the support of his voter base as well as Hillary's base who would vote for him as well most times while the converse is not true. If Hillary wins the general, she is a much closer race and a potential loss as a great deal of Bernie's supporters truly dislike the woman and will stay home rather than vote for her with some who would rather vote in trump out of spite at that point.

So really, Sander's is the sure win for the DNC while Hillary is the toss-up, the DNC is just hoping for her to win with business as usual rather than an anti-establishment candidate who might actually fix things. They would rather lose with Hillary than win with Bernie except this time, if they lose with Hillary, they may end up with a candidate they want even less.

[Silverlock]

Votes conservative but isn't capitalist?

That's like taking the shitty part of both ideologies with none of the up side.

Poor choice of words on my part I'm not anti capitalist but rather anti free trades. I believe in heavy tariffs to protect and rebuild local production over globalization.

[Deleted]

Super delegates are about 1/6th the total number of delegates - meaning, 5/6ths of the delegates are awarded based on the vote.

1/6 ... that's 16-17% or so, is it not? So super delegates hold 16.5% of the power in nominating a presidential candidate? WOW! Considering that afterwards, when people actually vote, the generally difference between the candidates has rarely been that high yet a few people choose for the people before the people get to choose.

[Jaese]

The American government is a lost cause. The only people that have the power to fix it are those in Congress, and that would involve limiting their own power which will never happen.

Sure, the people could replace incumbent candidates (very unlikely in practice) or vote in people that will do it when vacancies appear, but that is such a long term prospect you can't expect the American people to keep it up (because, as a whole, we are dumb). We are talking introducing term limits, reducing their own pay, and making them subject to the very same laws that they pass; this will not happen.

[I Push Buttons]

Funny how you leave out the ones which show he does like http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...d-to-head-poll

Polls for Dem vs Rep are always skewed Republican. Look back at 2012... Literally every poll had Romeny winning, which didn't come to pass.

Pollsters call registered voters who have a record of actually voting in every election, among many other qualifiers... They call those people "likely voters"... Well most of those qualifiers exclude a lot of the Democrats' base, like a strong record of voting...

- - - Updated - - -

What's funny is that these party conventions are entirely unofficial and outside the normal governmental process and despite the super delegate situation are still more democratic than the actual real presidential election process...

At least here, the remaining delegates are split based on what percentage of the vote each candidate gets... In the normal national election, all but a few states are winner takes all... So whether you win a state 50.1% to 49.9% or 99.9% to .1%... You get all the delegates that state has to offer...

It baffles me we haven't changed this system in particular yet, let alone how congressional districts are created and their subsequent election processes.

[Deleted]

How is this democracy?

The democratic party can pick its nominee for president in any way it chooses.
They can let it be a best of 5 Mario kart if they like.

[Fugus]

The democratic party can pick its nominee for president in any way it chooses.
They can let it be a best of 5 Mario kart if they like.

The problem comes when they have a candidate they intentionally sabotage to try and appoint whom they want against the general will of their members. At that point, they need to do away with the entire primary process as it is nothing but a show and a lie at that point.

If would be like if I hosted a contest only to have someone I disliked winning fair and square and instead of giving them the win, I manipulated it so I disqualified them and possibly went as far as cheating to do it. Even if I was the one who owned the event, I still didn't have that right and killed my credibility in the process if I tried to pretend I did.

[Cyberowl]

Poor choice of words on my part I'm not anti capitalist but rather anti free trades. I believe in heavy tariffs to protect and rebuild local production over globalization.

So you are... anti capitalist. For god's sake, pick up a economics book and educate yourself so we don't have to listen to more of your non-sense.

[Stormdash]

The Democrat nomination has been a fait accompli for months, one only needed to be paying attention. To the DNC, those feeling the Bern are useful idiots and nothing more.

[Grummgug]

I feel like there's no point in voting in the Democratic Caucuses, because of the how the party handles the delegates. Most of the delegates aren't given out by the people, but instead are super-delegates given out by Democratic Legislators, and a majority of them are giving their delegates to Hillary Clinton. Bernie Sanders won New Hampshire in a landslide, but still walked away with less delegates, because a majority of the super-delegates went to Clinton. How is this democracy?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...d-results.html

A party primary is NOT a democracy. A party can just pick their candidate in a smoke-filled room if it wants.

The democrat party created a primary system where the voters pick the candidate BUT the party bosses are allowed to influence the choice.

1. Some delegates are decided by votes
2. Superdelegates are picked by the party bosses

In the 2016 example, the party bosses want Hillary. So they gave the order that the superdelegates will go to Hillary. The democrats also control the mainstream press. So they will use the press to promote the idea that Hillary is getting more delegates, in the HOPE that voters begin to rally around Hillary instead of Bernie. So, the press will lie to you for the sake of the party bosses. The press isn't going to make a big deal about delegate shenanigans because the press is a part of the democrat party. In the event that this doesn't work, and voters are overwhelmingly choosing Bernie even after the press repeatedly reports on Hillary's delegate lead, the party bosses may relent and order that the superdelegates be switched to Bernie.

So, your vote counts in the democratic primary, but you must see past false notions of democracy in how a private club picks its leaders, and you must see past the idea that the press doesn't have a enormous leftist bias.

[Felya]

Both are going to lose to Trump you can relax tour vote isn't going to make a difference either way.

Both are going to lose to Trump? That's some cognitive dissonance... Trump winning means republicans win....

[Grummgug]

So you are... anti capitalist. For god's sake, pick up a economics book and educate yourself so we don't have to listen to more of your non-sense.

You can be anti-free trade and capitalist at the same time. In the real world, capitalism is not a text book definition. A person that adopts 90% of things a capitalist believes in, but then 10% isn't capitalist, they would grade out as a capitalist.

[Venant]

Votes conservative but isn't capitalist?

That's like taking the shitty part of both ideologies with none of the up side.

He might be against the crony capitalism pushed by Clinton. This election will be a good opportunity for liberals to cast a protest vote in the general, either voting for Trump or simply refusing to vote for Hillary. People fed up with the democrats and disappointed with Obama are already out spreading this kind of message, in order to guarantee that another Clinton never becomes president.

[breadisfunny]

nope might as well vote trump and laugh as the u.s. burns to the ground.

[Theodarzna]

The unstumpable Trump will swallow us all in the Darkness, for his reign will bring the blood wave and the 1000 independent floating teeth of ShubNoggathak which will was this land in chaos and blood.

[Underverse]

I've seen this shit argument so many times: "Oh, the DNC and RNC are private organizations, they can do whatever they want!"

Yeah. As the law is written, they can. But if you don't have democracy in choosing candidates, you don't have a democracy. It's the state's job to protect the democratic process. The fact that these organizations have gotten away with this utterly corrupt, non-democratic system is an insult to the people's representation in government and indeed an insult to the American concept of freedom. I don't see how or why anyone would make the argument that this is a reasonable or acceptable system.

What we need is a reform. But unfortunately, people aren't informed enough/don't have enough time/don't care enough to push for a reform. Corporate idiocracy at its best.