Unholy DK Alpha Testers, Please Read! (Unholy Legion Discussion)

[Deleted]

Cant have them dks being better at dps then mages.

[Kelonaar]

I've heard over and over again about how mechanically, Unholy is superior to Frost and for the most part, I've seen that hold true. However, there's two possible issues I see with Unholy that are making it hard to narrow down what I want to play in Legion (Between Unholy/Frost or another melee).

1. Target Swapping/Priority target Damage
With Festering Wounds being on target and Unholy having the option of quite a few CDs based around them (Apocalypse, Soul Reaper, etc.) or having to pool for Arbiter. It feels like at times those CDs won't mix well with this type of situation (Ex: having to swap to a priority add right before or as Soul Reaper/Apoc comes off CD so you have no wounds).

It also feels a bit like by the time you set up on the new target with Virulent Plague+a FS for wounds, the thing is down to half health already and you have to wait for your set of three runes to recharge. Though admittedly this could be more of an issue with things getting annihilated since it's literally the end of the expac.

2. Getting the "SEF Treatment"
For those that don't know what I'm talking about, it was assumed that Blizzard was leery about buffing WW ST(and possibly others, but this is the example I know of) due to the fact that their aoe/cleave was based around their single target/rotational abilities. With Clawing Shadows/Scourge Strike+DnD being in a similar boat and epidemic being as strong as it is, are you guys worried Unholy may be less than competitive in terms of pure ST down the road?


Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Necropotence]

I've heard over and over again about how mechanically, Unholy is superior to Frost and for the most part, I've seen that hold true. However, there's two possible issues I see with Unholy that are making it hard to narrow down what I want to play in Legion (Between Unholy/Frost or another melee).

1. Target Swapping/Priority target Damage
With Festering Wounds being on target and Unholy having the option of quite a few CDs based around them (Apocalypse, Soul Reaper, etc.) or having to pool for Arbiter. It feels like at times those CDs won't mix well with this type of situation (Ex: having to swap to a priority add right before or as Soul Reaper/Apoc comes off CD so you have no wounds).

It also feels a bit like by the time you set up on the new target with Virulent Plague+a FS for wounds, the thing is down to half health already and you have to wait for your set of three runes to recharge. Though admittedly this could be more of an issue with things getting annihilated since it's literally the end of the expac.

2. Getting the "SEF Treatment"
For those that don't know what I'm talking about, it was assumed that Blizzard was leery about buffing WW ST(and possibly others, but this is the example I know of) due to the fact that their aoe/cleave was based around their single target/rotational abilities. With Clawing Shadows/Festering Strike+DnD being in a similar boat and epidemic being as strong as it is, are you guys worried Unholy may be less than competitive in terms of pure ST down the road?


Anyone have any thoughts on this?

There is definitely a ramp up element of DoT/Disease classes that comes into play when target swapping, but in most instances once you know the fight and have a plan for how to switch targets, it stops being an issue. If the target is tanked close Virulent should spread on it's own, so you really just have to FS and then scourge strike. In Unholy's case however, I find that any DPS loss is somewhat offset by the ability to deal a lot of damage from range, giving more uptime than your average melee class.

To your second point, I don't think DKs are in the same boat as monks where ST and AoE are tied together. I've read monk guides that suggest maintaining the same ST rotation on up to 4 or even 5 mobs. A number of their hard hitting ST abilities hit all enemies in front of them. By contrast, blizz could neuter or buff Unholy AoE by playing around with Epidemic. SS/CS AoE is great, but only works for 10 every 30 seconds. They could easily make changes to Apocalypse, FS, wound bursting damage, etc if they just wanted to buff ST. That being said I'm not sure Blizzard wants UH Dk to be ST powerhouses...I'm sure they will be competitive, but I think a number of other specs might be better.

[Deleted]

I've heard over and over again about how mechanically, Unholy is superior to Frost and for the most part, I've seen that hold true. However, there's two possible issues I see with Unholy that are making it hard to narrow down what I want to play in Legion (Between Unholy/Frost or another melee).

1. Target Swapping/Priority target Damage
With Festering Wounds being on target and Unholy having the option of quite a few CDs based around them (Apocalypse, Soul Reaper, etc.) or having to pool for Arbiter. It feels like at times those CDs won't mix well with this type of situation (Ex: having to swap to a priority add right before or as Soul Reaper/Apoc comes off CD so you have no wounds).

It also feels a bit like by the time you set up on the new target with Virulent Plague+a FS for wounds, the thing is down to half health already and you have to wait for your set of three runes to recharge. Though admittedly this could be more of an issue with things getting annihilated since it's literally the end of the expac.

2. Getting the "SEF Treatment"
For those that don't know what I'm talking about, it was assumed that Blizzard was leery about buffing WW ST(and possibly others, but this is the example I know of) due to the fact that their aoe/cleave was based around their single target/rotational abilities. With Clawing Shadows/Scourge Strike+DnD being in a similar boat and epidemic being as strong as it is, are you guys worried Unholy may be less than competitive in terms of pure ST down the road?


Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I would not worry about ramp up time as Unholy, your Disease basically had none and wounds are very small portion of our damage and 1 Festering doesn't really set you back to much. If the target is already close to dead by the time you think it takes you to apply VP and Wounds, it's obviously very low health target and you should have spent that time spamming Epidemic anyway.

[Deleted]

Still no source on Bonereaper's Hook?
Makes me wonder how long it'll take live to find it if beta hasn't found it for so long.

"Fed by the steady settling energy of Icecrown Citadel, this crude and brutal weapon could easily be fashioned into an instrument of death."

[uxzuigal]

At live now, sometimes you end up waiting 1-2s for runes, still the case on beta with some gear? It feels abit unnatural. Might just be low gear for me I supose but.

[Maxweii]

Still no source on Bonereaper's Hook?
Makes me wonder how long it'll take live to find it if beta hasn't found it for so long.

"Fed by the steady settling energy of Icecrown Citadel, this crude and brutal weapon could easily be fashioned into an instrument of death."

Still hasn't been even a hint of it anywhere really

At live now, sometimes you end up waiting 1-2s for runes, still the case on beta with some gear? It feels abit unnatural. Might just be low gear for me I supose but.

Apoc gives increased runic generation as well as rune return on SS/CS use, so yes your resources will be a lot different at 110

[Saracens]

Does anyone have recent logs for Beta Raids?

[Teech]

Hi,

wanted to ask, if DK's will scale again poorly in lategame or will it be fine or near other classes with the introduction of the Artifact Weapon?

[Saracens]

Hi,

wanted to ask, if DK's will scale again poorly in lategame or will it be fine or near other classes with the introduction of the Artifact Weapon?

No way to tell, we only have part of the first raid tier available, silly.

[GodEmperor]

Huge buff to Necrotic Strike. With the added nerf to Clawing Shadows in PvP and nerfed Virulent Plague in PvP, I think the direction Blizz wants to go for Unholy PvP is Necrotics after all.

Instead of disease and heavy strike damage class of WOD, we are heavy Necrotic Absorbs + high pet damage class along with good burst from Apocalypse every 1.5 mins. I love it but I think many will be put off since I know a lot played Unholy PvP for Clawing Shadows.

[Deleted]

Huge buff to Necrotic Strike. With the added nerf to Clawing Shadows in PvP and nerfed Virulent Plague in PvP, I think the direction Blizz wants to go for Unholy PvP is Necrotics after all.

Instead of disease and heavy strike damage class of WOD, we are heavy Necrotic Absorbs + high pet damage class along with good burst from Apocalypse every 1.5 mins. I love it but I think many will be put off since I know a lot played Unholy PvP for Clawing Shadows.

Personally i loved clawing shadows for both PvP and PvE. DK's are objectively more boring now with just using Castigator. Castigator feels like a non-talent passive.

[Deleted]

I've been out of the loop for a little while, got a few questions that seem to baffle me.

What are the fixes people are talking about? Not seen any builds or patch notes (other than the live tweaks, which in my understanding are just lvl100 changes, not actually 110?) Secondly, do we have any parses? more specifically what seems to be the top spec pve/pvp? I generally enjoy UH cos you're ranged and don't suffer the current state of melee instangibs, even thoguh frost is more fun cos full throttle after 1 GCD! I don't see Simcraft updated to Legino just yet.

Haven't really had time to beta, other stuff getting in the way.

[Kronik85]

Personally i loved clawing shadows for both PvP and PvE. DK's are objectively more boring now with just using Castigator. Castigator feels like a non-talent passive.

The talent that actually alters your rotation on the tier feels like a passive? Ok then :S.

[Deleted]

I've been out of the loop for a little while, got a few questions that seem to baffle me.

What are the fixes people are talking about? Not seen any builds or patch notes (other than the live tweaks, which in my understanding are just lvl100 changes, not actually 110?) Secondly, do we have any parses? more specifically what seems to be the top spec pve/pvp? I generally enjoy UH cos you're ranged and don't suffer the current state of melee instangibs, even thoguh frost is more fun cos full throttle after 1 GCD! I don't see Simcraft updated to Legino just yet.

Haven't really had time to beta, other stuff getting in the way.

So you think they will just revert every change since prepatch when legion launches? no words

[Saracens]

Double checking again, does anyone have logs for a UHDK that are more recent?

[Deleted]

So you think they will just revert every change since prepatch when legion launches? no words

When the changes hit, as far as I know, they did not effect beta, but only live. Im reasonably certain we'll have a patch between now, and a day into legion launch which could/would fix scaling, or they just have the coefficient different at lower levels, as they have in the game right now, with low lvl abilities scaling differently than at endgame.

[Saracens]

When the changes hit, as far as I know, they did not effect beta, but only live. Im reasonably certain we'll have a patch between now, and a day into legion launch which could/would fix scaling, or they just have the coefficient different at lower levels, as they have in the game right now, with low lvl abilities scaling differently than at endgame.

I think they'll be, at least, another update, but I could not see reversions.

[Deleted]

So Beta related question.

I've just done the part of the Order Campaign where you go to Eye of Azshara, and now the entire order hall campaign has come to a halt. There's no more quests i can pick up, im not on any quests related to the campaign. I've done the world quests part, and as far as i know i've done the bloods part. The only thing i haven't done that i'd expect to be part of it is the Obliterum part but there isnt a quest for it. I have no idea how to progress the story at this point, which is really ass since i need the 3rd relic slot.

Anyone had similar problems and figured out how to continue?

[Kank]

nice, this is what I need