Under performing on sub, looking for feedback with a couple logs inside

[Champloo]

Trying to find some help, was going to try on ravenholdt but it appears the forum is basically dead at this point.

A little background to begin:

I've played nothing but Mage from vanilla up until the first tier of cataclysm. I recently rolled rogue since my friend's guild didn't have one, and resubbed a couple months ago. I've had a ton of issues adjusting to melee, but I've finally gotten to a point where I'm comfortable and ready to nitpick everything about my performance. The guild just started mythic mannoroth progression ~2 weeks ago, and I'd like my performance to increase so we can hopefully kill this thing this week.

I only have a couple logs to list since a lot of what I learned initially about sub was apparently incorrect, but here are two in which I'm up to speed with the boss mechanics:

iron reaver:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings


kilrogg:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings





To explain my understanding as of right now:

Opener is extremely important. I'm following Rylix's guide for the opener, and now trying to not overcap CP by weaving in eviscerates with 5 CP(had initially read just to ambush spam...).

Goal is for 100% rupture and SnD uptime(missed on this goal in those two logs)

Pool energy/CP for soul cap procs and for shadowdance

Use vanish on CD unless there's <6s between it and SD, or <12s for SD+ring(previously under the impression of matching vanish CD with SD cd)

I understand I should be using premed more often, but I feel like every time it's available I end up being CP capped anyway off ambush... help on that would be appreciated.


On the fel reaver attempt, I had an extremely similar kill time to the top ranked rogue for my ilvl, so I looked at our comparison

Biggest discrepancies: He had 21 ambushes vs my 13. Obviously I messed something up here. I may not have pooled energy correctly on my second shadowdance and/or vanish. I also noticed he got a 4th vanish off, seemingly due to more ruptures and eviscerates lowering the CD. This also explains why I have more backstabs, as I was using GCDs on it instead of more eviscerates/rups(although I think his 12 rups was excessive)

Neither of us had 100% rupture uptime, but I believe this is due to not killing the boss before air phase.

Aside from that, the absolute biggest damage discrepancy seems to be that I messed up a trinket proc, not cancelling it correctly for the first ring, resulting in a colossal 3 million damage difference just from the ring, in addition to the likely lost soul cap damage. There was an issue with my cancel aura macro which I have since fixed.



Any tips are appreciated, especially for mythic manny on subtlety- my guild has a ton of aoe so imps are a non-factor, thereby I'm going sub to nuke the doomlords. I've struggled a ton with my DPS on that fight, and I think I may need to swap to a hemo glyph for all the target switching I'm doing on it.


If you want to look through the rest of the logs to assist, feel free. The reason I listed these two is simply because the other fights I'm not particularly clear on positioning due to only having a couple pulls on them(kormrok... let's not talk about that). Positioning and GCD management has been my biggest struggle thus far- compared to my mage, I often felt lost in melee position and unable to discern mechanics from other effects, I also found it hard(and still do to some extent) to realize when an ability has been executed since there are no casts bars and I'm so used to having one.

[Geoffar]

So after taking a quick look it looks like on your opener you are missing a couple Ambush casts. I saw only 5 on your Iron Reaver pull in the first 10-11 seconds of the pull. Usually you can fit about 7 in your opener with lust 6 without, unless you are Belf then you should always be able to fit 7 on your Ring+SD CD. Try doing this after your prepull set up:

Vanish>SR>Rupture>Dance>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Evis>Ambush>Rupture>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush

Also right after your initial opener it is worht using Prep and Vanish again while the ring is still up to fit in an Extra ambush and Evis if you can. You will most likely only be able to get 2 ambushes out of the CD use but since they will be with the ring its worth it. Other than that try to stay around 80 Energy before you BS and pool around 9 CP before you evis or refresh rupture. I did see the canceled Soul cap on the second ring use, I wasnt sure if that was on purpose or not but you can hold it and let it go off into the ring and be fine. Also as a rogue you can ride the second blitz and cloak the debuff to maximize your damage during ring/soulcap.

[Kazzai]

Vanish>SR>Rupture>Dance>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Evis>Ambush>Rupture>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush

Where do you usually fit in your prep?
I use something similar as belf going

Van>SR>Rupture>SD>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>torrent>prep>evis>Rupture>Ambush>Vanish etc

I have tracker for my 2pc buff and hate the idea of doing an ambush during the opener that isn't receiving the buff, but doing so forces me to spend cp's to not waste from vanish gain and aswell as using prep gcd during SD.

Halp

[Champloo]

Where do you usually fit in your prep?
I use something similar as belf going

Van>SR>Rupture>SD>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>torrent>prep>evis>Rupture>Ambush>Vanish etc

I have tracker for my 2pc buff and hate the idea of doing an ambush during the opener that isn't receiving the buff, but doing so forces me to spend cp's to not waste from vanish gain and aswell as using prep gcd during SD.

Halp

Do you use a weak aura for that tracker? That would be pretty useful.



Also, @geoffar I'm not sure what happened on that pull that caused that. My opener is generally a couple macros followed up ambush 3x, prep, evisc/rup and then more ambush as a CP builder and using rup/evisc/SnD appropriately to not overcap CP, and vanish at the end of shadow dance for a little more dmg into the ring.

[elfporn]

7x ambushes with 1 rupture to refresh, after soulcap is over, dump cp, snd, prep vanish and continue

[Kazzai]

7x ambushes with 1 rupture to refresh, after soulcap is over, dump cp, snd, prep vanish and continue

Heres a glimpse at my opener, do you see anything wrong using this? I still manage 7 ambushes during the cap.


And to the dude who wanted the 2pc tracker WA

Spoiler: 

dmdxcaGEQQQDbj2gfAFuvP5kunBjDBcTtjyVODdX(HQ(jf8xQk)wfdwImCf5GcfhJOoNuSyPuTCr9yH8uWYuvpxQMO eAQuzYQ00jDyk9mf1Lv66ezJsuJtv2SiBNQQCAbttHpdfFNI6KsjddknAQY4HKUevvCli11i48qLvku6BuKxlLYuMo cbcTq0nNSrB8wrhKECyARvFGN9Em7lgPS1qQOn3gY27e6e(OiJcwuKBiis4s4shH0brHG)xwW0NWn0NQwCUfvLGFMW hl(yjGZqk1xLLr)AMn((Mg)zbbbH3Jj0JbH8IjCqC4Mwc6IQsqZbmy2mDeYRib5pbeR42PJfKjuCTQxfh(sGN9Em3P siVIgM2Svpzc(LqKuxpI(8c3LGge3lvcMdx1JLFcJMhw55X8BmMf(mHEyKq4saKAhFjN8dFP)ueH0brj8XI9tars0L dyWS5olitavdPuFvwgTXNrSnZYyF)XtWKPhtOhce82agpLLnj008(cJXO53imBKj0dbc1J9shHBiLcrsvfhDeeLQAG oQujKTrlDeeLQAGoQujKp1LocIsvnqhvQeuBDru6iikv1aDuPsizJ0WbHocIsvnqhvQuPsWshHIRv9Q4Wxc8S3J5oH wi6Mt2OnEROdspomT1QpWZEpM9fJu2Aiv0MBdz7DQe8hlip(Yujb

[elfporn]

either way, perfecting that opener is key.

[PessimiStick]

Aside from that, the absolute biggest damage discrepancy seems to be that I messed up a trinket proc, not cancelling it correctly for the first ring, resulting in a colossal 3 million damage difference just from the ring, in addition to the likely lost soul cap damage. There was an issue with my cancel aura macro which I have since fixed.

That's not really how it works. You don't lose that damage unless you whiff the Soul Cap explosion. Spirit Shift will just eat the ring proc and it'll come back out when it goes off.

[Champloo]

That's not really how it works. You don't lose that damage unless you whiff the Soul Cap explosion. Spirit Shift will just eat the ring proc and it'll come back out when it goes off.

If I get a soulcap proc during the ring, all the damage you do during soul cap *does not* go into the ring damage unless it is cancelled/times out *before* the ring explodes, because during soul cap you are doing 0 dmg.


On opener it isn't going to matter much because your first soul cap proc should end roughly ~10-11 seconds into the ring duration, assuming it is being popped on pull. If you get a double proc, I guess you can just let those two ambushes and maybe 1 evisc not go into the ring damage, knowing that when the ring explodes it will roll into your second proc and amplify yet again?

This is my understanding at least.

[elfporn]

If I get a soulcap proc during the ring, all the damage you do during soul cap *does not* go into the ring damage unless it is cancelled/times out *before* the ring explodes, because during soul cap you are doing 0 dmg.


On opener it isn't going to matter much because your first soul cap proc should end roughly ~10-11 seconds into the ring duration, assuming it is being popped on pull. If you get a double proc, I guess you can just let those two ambushes and maybe 1 evisc not go into the ring damage, knowing that when the ring explodes it will roll into your second proc and amplify yet again?

This is my understanding at least.

if you get a double proc on the pull, generally, you leave it alone, let it all roll into each other.

When you get a soulcap with ring up, if there's less than 5 sec on ring, let it roll, if more than 5, cancelaura.

that's an easy on-the-fly rule, doesn't happen too often though - atleast for me.

[Geoffar]

Heres a glimpse at my opener, do you see anything wrong using this? I still manage 7 ambushes during the cap.


And to the dude who wanted the 2pc tracker WA

Spoiler: 

dmdxcaGEQQQDbj2gfAFuvP5kunBjDBcTtjyVODdX(HQ(jf8xQk)wfdwImCf5GcfhJOoNuSyPuTCr9yH8uWYuvpxQMO eAQuzYQ00jDyk9mf1Lv66ezJsuJtv2SiBNQQCAbttHpdfFNI6KsjddknAQY4HKUevvCli11i48qLvku6BuKxlLYuMo cbcTq0nNSrB8wrhKECyARvFGN9Em7lgPS1qQOn3gY27e6e(OiJcwuKBiis4s4shH0brHG)xwW0NWn0NQwCUfvLGFMW hl(yjGZqk1xLLr)AMn((Mg)zbbbH3Jj0JbH8IjCqC4Mwc6IQsqZbmy2mDeYRib5pbeR42PJfKjuCTQxfh(sGN9Em3P siVIgM2Svpzc(LqKuxpI(8c3LGge3lvcMdx1JLFcJMhw55X8BmMf(mHEyKq4saKAhFjN8dFP)ueH0brj8XI9tars0L dyWS5olitavdPuFvwgTXNrSnZYyF)XtWKPhtOhce82agpLLnj008(cJXO53imBKj0dbc1J9shHBiLcrsvfhDeeLQAG oQujKTrlDeeLQAGoQujKp1LocIsvnqhvQeuBDru6iikv1aDuPsizJ0WbHocIsvnqhvQuPsWshHIRv9Q4Wxc8S3J5oH wi6Mt2OnEROdspomT1QpWZEpM9fJu2Aiv0MBdz7DQe8hlip(Yujb

Pretty sure you waste Prep in that opener there. After three ambushes you are gonna be capped on CP and Prep doesn't go over into Anticipation.

- - - Updated - - -

Where do you usually fit in your prep?
I use something similar as belf going

Van>SR>Rupture>SD>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>torrent>prep>evis>Rupture>Ambush>Vanish etc

I have tracker for my 2pc buff and hate the idea of doing an ambush during the opener that isn't receiving the buff, but doing so forces me to spend cp's to not waste from vanish gain and aswell as using prep gcd during SD.

Halp

If anything I would honestly use prep at the end of SD. Also with that opener you miss out on alot of Ambush casts only 4 instead of the 7 you should be getting on pull. Try this instead.

Vanish>SR>Rupture>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush>Evis>Torrent>Ambush>Rupture>Ambush>Ambush>Ambush/Prep/Vanish.

Assuming that when you refresh rupture on that opener you have 7s or less on the current application. And of course alter your use of prep when ever it would be beneficial to line it up with a damage increase or lust.

[Kazzai]

That's with a 25 second pull timer. I premed @23, Snd @13, premed again @3 and Snd @2 and begin opener.
Which in return gives me more seconds with snapshot buff, at the sacrifice of probs missing out on the premed in combat until 2nd vanish/SD timing.

Delaying prep/vanish that late will mean I don't have constant 2pc bonus for all of ring dmg on pull

[Deleted]

Pretty sure you waste Prep in that opener there. After three ambushes you are gonna be capped on CP and Prep doesn't go over into Anticipation.

It's Preparation, not Premeditation.

[Geoffar]

It's Preparation, not Premeditation.

Yeah realized it after posting. Was just to lazy to fix it.

[InfinityRogue]

I noticed that on your logs for the fel reaver 2:06 kill timer that you had 2 shadow dances and that the second wasnt used with shadow reflection. in a 2:06 second kill time you should have 3 shadow dances: on pull, at the 1 minute mark, and at the 2 minute mark, with ring and shadow reflections.

Missing out on shadow dances is a HUGE reason your damage was lacking and not lining up cooldowns will destroy your dps as a sub. Outside of mages we are the most burst heavy class in the game and it is absolutely vital that your burst moments are perfected. On Iron Reaver, you can have your priest and paladin give you a bubble, hand of sacrifice, and eternal flame and feint ride the first blitz. You will survive easily if you feint and healthstone. If you reach a second blitz, cloak and ride for free. If you start killing him fast enough that you only have one blitz, simply cloak first and ride. This will help your boss uptime immensely.

I HAVE TO LEAVE FOR WORK NOW, BUT WILL COME BACK IN AND GIVE MORE FEEDBACK WHEN I HAVE A MOMENT LATER TODAY.

[Evolixe]

If I get a soulcap proc during the ring, all the damage you do during soul cap *does not* go into the ring damage unless it is cancelled/times out *before* the ring explodes, because during soul cap you are doing 0 dmg.

It does indeed not go into the ring explosion, but it very much still benefits from the X% damage increase the ring gives you while it's active.

The way that works is;

D*1.44*1.3887 (=1.999728)

So with Ring+SC you're not just doing 139% damage, but more like 200% damage.
More than double damage if its M WF Soulcap.