Mythic Raiding: Increase rewards = Increased participation.

[Kazgrel]

Don't mean to insult you, but perhaps changing WoW to entertain ageing players with commitments has overall hurt the game, as it no longer appeals to younger people looking for rewarding time sinks? Perhaps those ageing players should have been left to move on to other things?

So you either run mythic and play the game 4+ hours a day, or gtfo. Right.

[Glorious Leader]

You do realise there is a website that tracks raid kills right?

Also you do realise that blizzard has many many times that those who raid in the top diffculity is a super small amount of the WoW playerbase.

As someone who has raided LFR & NM this tier ill say this. There is NOTHING you can put in Heroic or Mythic to get me to raid it. I bought the moose and if I couldn't have bought it then I would have done without and be 40k richer.

More importantly jaylock claimed their was actually an increase in heroic participation but didn't bother to back it up. The mod who called him out on it didn't bother to ask him to show proof and jaylock has subsequently lawyered the discussion in his favor.

We all know what happened when Blizzard announced that there would be a Heroic only special one time drop during this expansion only, that would give you a moose mount for killing Archimonde.

Quite simply: Heroic HFC participation increased greatly.

The mod then said

participation didn't increase

Instead of asking Jaylock for a shred of evidence. Jaylock then turned around and asked him for evidence. Classic.

[Paradyne]

Will we really though? Lose millions of customers? If the argument you and Dars keeps making is true that "people dont want to raid" I dont see how it would matter much removing LFR.

The game existed FINE with the highest growth in subs PRE LFR, I think it would do just fine with it being removed. Thanks.

Yes, it would probably result in losing a lot of players simply because you are now taking away content that people are consuming. Did millions of people continue to play without the existence of LFR in the first place...yes, will they now when you take away...maybe & maybe not. Regardless, removal of content is the last thing Wow needs at the moment given the extreme lack of it in WOD.

And as Darsithis points out, removal of LFR will most likely result in less development resources being spent on raiding. Blizzard's "game health" measurement is now Monthly Active Users so they aren't likely to focus their resources on something that keeps the minimum number of players active each month.

[Sonofajewponer]

In my opinion, the problem with mythic raiding participation is the early burnout with normal/heroic difficulties.. (I am speaking from my own point of view where I have mythic experience but I am not nearly as hardcore as a competitive mythic raider)

By the time my guild finished heroic hfc, which was a group of ~20 people.. people were excited at first to try the new difficulty but when we began wiping on iron reaver to people dying to dumbshit, people stopped showing up because why bang your head on a boss you have had on farm for weeks or months in some people's case.

I think blizzard should reconsider getting rid of a difficulty or two (LFR and/or heroic) or having multiple raid instances for a raid tier.. and I do not think Highmaul and BRF would be considered the same raid tier because once BRF came out highmaul was irrelevant.. a structure like Heart of Fear and ToES was great because the environment was different but they both had gear (Tier/sha weapons) that people were interested in.

EDIT: At one point in the history of WoW, raids had one difficulty and multiple raids to satisfy how challenged a raid group want to be and made raiding interesting because for example, say you had a solid roster for BT(25man) you could do ZA(10man) and have 3 different groups to compete with each other to get the bear.. as the raid was a on a timer.. I feel blizzard lost it's creativity just having a HFC on 4 difficulties and that is your raid tier.

[Deleted]

I think rewards from Mythic raiding are just fine, you have a chance to get a mount and if you clear the tier you get a title. I don't know what else would you need, also the sets look pretty cool for some classes. You can't incentives most people playing the game atm, you try to give too good rewards they will bitch and moan until the content is about as challenging as using an on/off switch.

People doing Mythic often want to be challenged, while also rewarded, but the rewards can't be too great without it attracting the lazy crowd that will never improve, but still claim they are entitled to it all.

[Deleted]

How many of those people downed heroic Archimonde as part of a concerted effort from the beginning, raiding with a guild, and how many were carried or paid to do it? Yeah.

Where are your numbers to back up your ridiculous claims? ohh wait you don't have any. I had multiple friends who don't raid interested getting Archimonde down so they could obtain the limited time mount. These are very casual people who can't throw 50k for a boost, they actually did it through LFG tool, so here is ALREADY proof that the participation increased.

[Adamas102]

Hahaha! Not likely...

Throwing MORE rewards at game modes that most people don't care to try isn't going to make them change their minds. It's just going to frustrate more players, and in turn probably lead to even more canceled subscriptions.

[NatePsy]

OHHH YEAH! I hadn't even thought about that, maybe they can make some of the BEST looking artifact skins from doing Mythic raiding, that would be awesome.

Combined that with some new awesome class specific transmog sets, and now we are in business!

Why do the BEST looking artifact skins have to come from Mythic raiding. Where has this entitlement come from? Surely art assets in the form of "best looking artifacts" can be dedicated to Challenge Modes in Legion too yes? I don't know, something about this quoted statement just reeks of baiting.

[Deleted]

More rewards in a game where you're basically over-conditioned with rewards.

Right man, sure it will work.

[Smauldy]

Rofl at the people thinking removing LFR will somehow nudge people into raiding higher difficulties. They either won't raid at all or quit the game.

[cFortyfive]

I had multiple friends who don't raid interested getting Archimonde down so they could obtain the limited time mount.

Nah nobody ever played particular parts of a game just for rewards. That would be silly . Fuck blizzard's whole portfolio works that way.

[Jaylock]

And this is where the way you play the game differs from others. Showing off.

Achievement? For what? A lucky roll of the dice? Did not realize that was hard.

The hard part was killing the thing guarding your dice roll. Or did you not consider that?

[Aux]

I don't feel adding more to mythic would up the participation. Carries most definitely though.

More than likely people are just going to wait until Legion when HFC becomes faceroll to go after tmog/pets/titles. Anyone who is serious about the mount will buy and arch kill.

Personally I feel mythic gets enough exclusive stuff, this is coming from someone is who 13/13m.

The moose being placed on H Arch was the best choice imo.

[Deleted]

I would feel more incentive to buy one or two boost runs. But that is about it.

[Nahela]

There definitely needs to be something to mix up the formula. An exclusive mount is nice, but it's often simply a minor skin-swap of other mounts in the game. The modified models on Mythic gear is nice, though for whatever reason they really short-changed it for T18 compared to T17. Seemed a bit backwards. T17/Warlords Season 1 had all very different and unique models for Mythic and Elite conquest gear. T18/S2&3 are very minor cosmetic changes and palette swaps, not sure what happened there other than most of the team working on Legion.

That all being said, rewards aren't going to directly correlate to higher participation. There's an enormous skill gap between people clearing Mythic and people clearing Normal/Heroic. Until the power creep of difficulty is changed or the game starts doing dramatically better at teaching people skills outside of raiding, it will probably never change. We're basically at the point in most Mythic encounters where a single mistake = death and a single death = wipe. It's a pretty impossible barrier for the average player to cross. More incentive would certainly generate more interest, but it's a much more significant issue to tackle.

[Jaylock]

How do you YOU know that HEROIC participation went up??? Might have jumped a bit since we're looking at another fucking long ass lull but the rates for mythic guilds are still dirt low.

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they tried it with WoD it didn't work at all. Yes jay we get you have a hard-on against LFR we know. We've endured it with your shit trolling and the fact you're not permaban speak volumes that some one is protecting your shit posting ass.

First of all fix'd that for you. HEROIC participation DID go up as a result of the moose. Myself being a perfect example, and several other people in this very thread who have friends who were not going to participate in heroic raiding who did because of the LIMITED time MOOSE being in game. Even if the participation went up by 1 player, it still went up. Don't try to play dumb and pretend that it didn't either because we all know damn well that it did.

Would you shut up with the jaylock shit posting fucking bull shit? If you don't like the thread then get the fuck out. You are a scourge on the forums only posting bile and toxic shit posts against the game. You have nothing positive to add, so why not leave this site for good?

- - - Updated - - -

I would feel more incentive to buy one or two boost runs. But that is about it.

What about people who either a) don't want to spend 50k on a boost, or b) don't have the money to buy a boost, but still want the mount?

You don't think that there is a demographic of players who rose to the occasion and got themselves geared and progressed through Heroic to get the mount? Because evidence suggests otherwise.

[TheWindWalker]

That all being said, rewards aren't going to directly correlate to higher participation. There's an enormous skill gap between people clearing Mythic and people clearing Normal/Heroic.

Part of that reason is fairly obvious. People who were raiding 10m-heroic prior to 6.0 who also had no interest in the style of raiding that comes with 20+ people did not move onto Mythic. They either got their heroic kill down with whatever group they could find, stopped raiding or simply unsubscribed from the game. "Change or quit" was a fairly intense slogan going into WoD.

Until the power creep of difficulty is changed or the game starts doing dramatically better at teaching people skills outside of raiding, it will probably never change. We're basically at the point in most Mythic encounters where a single mistake = death and a single death = wipe. It's a pretty impossible barrier for the average player to cross.

It's not so much that its impossible so much that it's not always interesting. Mythic is virtually unchanged from 5.4's Heroic 25m. There's a few more mechanics, there's an extreme amount of damage in any avoidable mechanic (void zones, interruptables, etc) and a few bosses in the raid have something a specific class can help with.

More incentive would certainly generate more interest, but it's a much more significant issue to tackle.

It wouldn't, though. Right now if you want the best gear, a unique mount, the prestige of the achievements and a title you can only get from beating the final boss on the highest difficulty, you have to run Mythic. They put an excessive amount of focus on raiding this expansion and no amount of "come get more trinkets!" will gather players who have no interest in being grouped with 19 other people trying to accomplish a single, high-stress goal.

[Molis]

Don't mean to insult you, but perhaps changing WoW to entertain ageing players with commitments has overall hurt the game, as it no longer appeals to younger people looking for rewarding time sinks? Perhaps those ageing players should have been left to move on to other things?

No insult.

You could very well be right. Blizzard has tried so hard to keep their aging audience they forgot about targeting college students again.

Could be why D3 is more enjoyable right now. (Kids fighting...just hit escape and come back)

[Deleted]

No insult.

You could very well be right. Blizzard has tried so hard to keep their aging audience they forgot about targeting college students again.

Could be why D3 is more enjoyable right now. (Kids fighting...just hit escape and come back)

They are focusing casual, its not the age of the player. They just don't seem to notice they are somehow making everything in the game easier, or atleast making it feel that way, all for the sake of not much time to play, these early catch-up mechanisms aka LFR is one example.

People are getting burned out, getting things done that they wanted to do for the day, very fast.
Then you just add in blizzards lack of creativity and content which is becoming more and more apparent in every other large gaming industry like ubisoft, EA games etc, You get WoD, a Lame expansion.

[cFortyfive]

feel

Luckily feelings aren't particularly relevant especially when they don't coincide with the reality that reward oriented play is everywhere.