Lets talk about which Vanilla's problem was OVERBLOWN...

[LairenyX]

Okay, for the sake of this discussion, we're going to assume there is going to be an alternative universe. In this alternative universe, Vanilla started out with the Group Finder and necessary technologies associated with it. However, for this discussion, I'm going to put the Flex Technology to the side. I'm not saying I have any hate on it ATM. I'm just going to put it to the side to keep things as close to the original position has possible. So this means players will still have to get 40 man for raid. This isn't a talk about bringing 40 man back or bringing everything exactly back in a clone version. It's just a hypothetical talk about how WoW would have moved forward and which features...could have been saved.

Okay, so we know that 1% of the people also raided everything back then. I'm going to give it some number to represent this number, 1,000...or maybe 10,000. Lets take these people and put them far away to the side, separated from the general population okay? lets called these people the "don't save them if they don't want to be saved people" or maybe another name you're more familiar with...the "I'm forced to do X raiders"...as these people will put themselves into extremely unpleasant conditions just so they can do their min/max numbers. Lets assume if they were to go to Blizzard to ask for anything, any changes to the game world, all Blizzard would say is: "No, we can't risk changing the world for a small group of people who doesn't want to be saved if this mean changing the experience for everyone else"... lets just say this was the hypothetical scenario, default response Blizzard would give to this small group of people to the side. So then lets analyze WHICH problem was then overblowned in Vanilla, and which truly should be have changed. I don't know all of the problems as I was not one of those "don't save if doesn't want to be be saved" since I wasn't in AQ 40 or Naxx40...so I'll need help becoming familiar with a certain problem. Ok lets start:

Problem 1: Buffing Every 5 Minutes.

My Thoughts: Clearly, this is a complaint of the people who doesn't want to be saved...because they will put themselves in a position where their min/max theorycrafting mythic guild will make their lives extremely hard for maximum gains. For an example, their guild will take just 1 paladin along and force him to buff 40 people every 5 minutes if this mean bringing more higher DPS class. Meanwhile, had the general population used the Group Finder to raid, they will most likely bring 8 Paladins and 1 will be responsible for 5 people each. So each 5 minutes, it's a quick 5 clicks. It feels nice to be able to support your ally and buff them so I don't mind doing this if my responsibilities was only for 5 people. This is my general assumption, most time there could be 10 or more paladin. However, if we learn the average was less, and paladins started being responsible for 10 players then perhaps up the buff time to 10 minutes.

Conclusion: Problem OVERBLOWN; changes nothing depending on the average number of paladin in the general population going to a raid.

-----------
Problem 2: I Hate Spamming Trade For Group for 30 Minutes.

My Thoughts: We have the Group Finder and associated technology, such problem won't exist.

Conclusion: Problem OVERBLOWN; changes nothing.
-----------

Problem 3: It Was Hard Finding People Who Did the Attunement.

My thoughs: We have the Group Finder, everyone will be using it very much to get themselves attuned. If not, and there are late starter, most of the general population will be attuned by the time the late game comes around so they'll be encouraged to go back to help other people, because there are many more in number, and especially if it means to show off mind bending loot.

Conclusion: Problem OVERBLOWN; changes nothing, keep attunement. It will only make the world feel bigger, the fantasy more, the journey more epic, the reward more well earned, and a game that you will play. Lest you want mail-me-epics.
-----------

Problem 4: I Hate 30 Minutes Trash Spawn.

My thoughts: perhaps putting in so much effort to clear trash and then fighting the boss and trying to get loot...only to be made so demoralized that all the trashes spawned soo soon so you have to clear them again and spend less time trying to fight the boss for the phat lewd. This could be too demoralizing and turn off the game's raiding.

Conclusion: Problem NOT overblown; keep spawn time; however, reduce trash spawn to 1-2 packs only, and they will only spawn again if these 1-2 dies.
-----------

Problem 5: I Hated Traveling so far to get into Dungeons.

My thoughts: perhaps going from Loch Modam, through Wetland, through Arathi Highland, through Tauren Mill, through Silverpine Forest, through Lordaeron was a bit unreasonable and wear-me-out.

Conclusion: Problem NOT overblown; add in a local wizard or transportation mechanic that gets you within 1 minute of walking distance to the dungeon, maybe flight paths after a 1 time unlock where you will still need to make the travel initially. The one time travel will make that one experience epic indeed in experiencing the world. This isn't Clash of the Clan.
-----------

Problem 6: Farming for Raid Mats, Soul Shard for Summoning, Potions, Min/max Ingredient What Not.

My Thoughts: Seems like a "don't save if don't want to be save" situation. Most people in the general population would just not do it if it feels too wear-me -out. Or maybe they'll do it for themselves but not forced for 40 other people, like a min/max guild would force people to do. General people will just go and just try to kill the boss without these things and probably can too. Removing these thing will just make the fantasy and world feel smaller. Let those who want to do it for themselves and not required for 40 people do it.

Conclusion: Problem OVERBLOWN; changes nothing.
-----------

Problem 7: Ammo bags, gun/ammo for warrior, libram, totem, idols either take up bag space, were not "interesting", or made life harder.

My Thoughts: Seems like a "don't save if don't want to be save" situation. Class fantasy gear gave plenty of loot immersion and made the loot experience more exciting, add to world immersion. The general people would love these fantasy factors. They wouldn't care about having more bag space for min/maxing through many sets, or mat, because number isn't as fun as the fantasy and a bigger world, and they wouldn't raid 36 hours a day which would have forced them to buy ammo too much. Hell, the general people would love fantasy too much that I wouldn't be surprised if they spent 3/5 of their bag space, aside from their ammo bag, to buy EVEN MORE ammo. More ammo means extra fantasy. How lovely! I remember me buying more ammo and dedicating regular bag space to ammo. What class fantasy gear that aren't "interesting" to mythic raiders were extremely fun and exciting for the general population.

Conclusion: Problem OVERBLOWN; changes nothing.
-----------

Problem 8: I don't like farming for resistant gear.

My Thoughts: I'm not too familiar with this, did it take 21 days to farm 1 piece? Did min maxer forced themselves to get more than necessary?

Conclusion: I DON'T know, adjust according to actual problem presented to general population. However, if not, big deal, keep for big world, fantasy, and immersion factor.
------------

Problem 9: Epic Mounts Cost TOO MUCH Gold.

My Thoughts: Hmmm...my priority would be to raid and get eye-melting loot...and then showing it off. This would be lower in my list of "to get done". I'll only attempt it if I'm done with the more important stuff at the top of the list...just seems lower in priority but added to the big world, game fantasy, and maybe social class, and maybe the feeling of well earned loot.

Conclusion: Maybe reduce to 400 gold.
------------------

Problem 10: Blizzard I don't like big dungeons, give me small hallways and boss rooms.

My Thoughts: ...Are you insane??? IMO, the general people love living in, or feel as if there is a, a big immersive world, full of fantasy, and exploration, and dungeons is no less.

Conclusion: Problem OVERBLOWN; Keep dungeons HUGE yo with as little hallways and "too obvious" boss rooms as possible.


------------------
Feel free to mention other problems that you hate so we can do our analysis.

In conclusion, Blizzard should just fix a problem if it truly threatens the general population. Otherwise, don't change the world for a small group of people who "doesn't want to be saved" at the risk of making the world feel smaller, less epic, have less fantasy, and being less immersive. Or just less IMO. This isn't Clash of the Clan. Please. Put in enough QoL and immersion breaking factors like LFD's TP to dungeon to destroy the immersion, enough of these, and the game will become Clash of Clan and bait the unsub. It's just all about QoL accumulation if the problem weren't that unreasonable in the first place to serve people who don't want to be saved... to destroy the world.

[Eleccybubb]

Sounds more like an I thread than YOU thread. Vanilla wasn't the best quality of life wise such as ammo, pet food and general player ease but for the time it did have a charm. Nowadays though people just want ease.

[Deleted]

half of these are you saying things that were problems in vanilla that have been solved since, werent problems in vanilla because they have been solved since.

[Solarnova]

5 minute buffs in Classic were just a crutch, you didn't 'need' a buff to defeat a boss. Sure it helped, definitely, but you didn't actually need it. A lot of boss fights were orchestrated in such a way that you just had to press buttons at the right time and move at the right time to defeat them.

Ahh Classic... I miss it so much, but mostly, the folks I raided with.

[Cæli]

I think the game can be fine without the listed problems, outside of one, the instant teleport they added to the group finder before the ICC raid which ruined the feeling of a cohesive world, pre dungeon zones and so on. Their mistake, let's just point out their mistake from times to times and wait until they fix it.

[Deleted]

Let's just stop talking about Vanilla. Let's not even mention it.
Oh and if you want to talk about it, there's that 72 page circle jerk just below, on the first page.

[OneSent]

Sigh.

I wish these were still "problems" in the game.

Maybe then, I wouldn't be so damn bored all the time.

[Archon14]

Vanilla wasn't the best quality of life wise such as ammo, pet food and general player ease but for the time it did have a charm. Nowadays though people just want ease.

In these arguments people always debate about the features of the game, and sometimes about what different generations want in a game. But there is more than that in figuring out why a game isn't as popular as it used to be.
And when wow was a new game, people were so excited. Even though some features are obviously total crap compared to what we have now, it was a new and incredible experience for so many of us. Many of us who started playing wow never played a mmo before, never imagined a game could be so vast and so full of stuff, story and exciting moments. For me personally even having so much fun with so much different people was totally amazing, and I did play multiplayer games before wow.
Those feelings had many of us, and that's what triggers the nostalgia when we talk about the "good old days". I'm not saying that blizzard didn't fuck things up multiple times, I'm saying that times are different and there are many factors that affect how popular and good the game is.
The new players now can't be that excited. They werent big fans of warcraft games and then read the gaming guide book in awe while the computer was installing those 6 cds of content. They probably experienced some of the features before or even played mmos before.
If we really want something to become amazing like wow did it years ago, we would need a new game that would provide us with something greater that we have and we are used to. Like releasing a wow2 that makes everything more beautiful and makes all the features seem breathtaking.

Edit: Sorry for the long post.

[Nalorakk]

Shhhh the WotLK babies will hear you can claim to know better or explain how 'authentic' it made the experience even though they never actually played classic

[MoanaLisa]

We're all full up on threads about vanilla right now. There are any number of places to discuss the joys and problems with the vanilla version of the game. Please post in one of those.

Closed.