Repeatedly wiping on H-Arch

[rovingdeath]

Hello good people of MMO-Champ,

My gold has been struggling with heroic archy for a few weeks now, and I'm trying to pin down the x-factor here.

We're making it to infernals usually, and around that time everyone starts dropping. On our last wipe, the infernals lived long enough to start pulsing and wiped us.

General makeup is bear/dk tanks, 4 ranged, 3 healers (tried 4 last night - pally, druid, dpriest, Monk) and 6 melee.

Here's the logs (just started using warcraftlogs last night):

warcraftlogs. DOT
com/reports/
gjWmFaJ2RfkGzybp#type=damage-done

Besides numbers needing to come up across the board, what can we do to make this less painful?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Sorry, had to break up link as I'm not allowed to post them.

[BiggestNoob]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...y=1&source=466

You need to separate the infernals. They pulse a heal to all nearby infernals, and if 2 are stacked together, unless you have insanely high DPS, they become unkillable.

[rovingdeath]

You need to separate the infernals. They pulse a heal to all nearby infernals, and if 2 are stacked together, unless you have insanely high DPS, they become unkillable.

Thanks for the tip; can they be kited? Roots, snares, stuns work?

[EzG]

Thanks for the tip; can they be kited? Roots, snares, stuns work?

You have two hunters, and other means of misdirecting or off-tanking them. Have both the hunters distracting shot their own and problem solved.

[time0ut]

The last phase is about not tunneling the boss more than anything. Adds need to die fast. We have two plate wearers taunt two of the infernals for example and take them to designated spots.

I suspect a big part of your problem is healing in the last phase though. Your resto druid is not playing his class correctly so his throughput is like 60% of what it should be.

[nephzor]

I see that your blood dk is out dpsing half your dps including the UH dk with 99% uptime, your unholy dk is not playing correctly, 31 plague strike when hes playing necrotic plague and spamming festering strike, no blood boil and very low scourge strike casts.

If he's on US server he can add me on bnet my btag is : nephzor#1520 or he can send me a pm on mmo-champion and ill go over what he can do to improve.

[rovingdeath]

Wow, you guys are freaking awesome! Some of our members are a work in progress, and we're working with them on a case by case basis. I'm hoping with current gear levels we can get by with the low numbers. This isn't a hardcore guild by any stretch of the imagination, but I'll be dammed if we come this far and don't finish heroic. This will be the pinnacle for us until Legion.

So we will work on the personal responsibility and find ourselves a solution. You've all been very helpful and we will implement your advice!

Nephzor I will pass your info to our dps dk. He just got back from an extended break and I'm sure he wants to improve.

- - - Updated - - -

The last phase is about not tunneling the boss more than anything. Adds need to die fast. We have two plate wearers taunt two of the infernals for example and take them to designated spots.

I suspect a big part of your problem is healing in the last phase though. Your resto druid is not playing his class correctly so his throughput is like 60% of what it should be.

Hey man, since I know nothing about resto druids, can you please expound on that? They just realized swiftmend was a thing a few days ago, and trying to work that into their rotation. Aside from that, I don't really know what they can do to improve.

[BiggestNoob]

Hey man, since I know nothing about resto druids, can you please expound on that? They just realized swiftmend was a thing a few days ago, and trying to work that into their rotation. Aside from that, I don't really know what they can do to improve.

I wouldn't run Nature's Vigil as a resto. Heart is just really strong, especially given there's only one point in this fight where you need as much healing potency as possible and it's at the end of the fight. He only used NV once anyway.

I also wouldn't run glyph of rejuv, mostly because you don't tend to cast a ton of HTs.

The uptime of Lifebloom was a bit low (there's always at least one active tank taking damage), and Harmony is at a 71% uptime. I don't see any Nature's Swiftness buff uptime. I tend to keep Harmony at 100% by using both Swiftmend and Nature's Swiftness, or using a Clearcasting proc + Regrowth (which you'll have more of with a higher Lifebloom uptime, especially if it's on 2 targets).

I don't see tree form, which is a really strong CD. If he's not running that (I would, I think it's by far the best choice in that tier), the best second option is SotF, but that procs based on Swiftmend and that's not being used on CD.

Short of that, I'd need to pay a lot more attention to see what targets are getting Rejuvs and Regrowths. Wild Growth has a lot of overhealing in that log, and it's a pretty short very powerful AoE heal, unless you have mana to burn and want to keep people topped off, I would try to use it at better times. The biggest thing about Resto though is knowing when damage is going to happen and getting ahead of it. When chains go out, start rejuving people, make sure there's a mushroom under the raid, and WG as soon as the breaks happen, for instance. WG right after the spread-out AoE in the last phase. Tree or Heart for a wave of Infernals because you're going to get that damage + chains + spread out simultaneously, or wait and Tranq when everyone's low after the damage happens.

Near the end of your best pull: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t=39&spell=100

WGs weren't happening and his mana was basically sitting at 100%. That's the part of the fight where you're probably going to go OOM if you don't kill the boss quickly. WG is almost used on CD after the first wave of infernals and 2xLB and plenty of Rejuvs are out constantly, with CDs used when raid damage gets really high.

[Kolvarg]

Thanks for the tip; can they be kited? Roots, snares, stuns work?

They can be kited by hunters for sure - not sure if snares work, roots and stuns I don't think so. Warlorcks Banish works but not adviseable (if they stay alive for long they start pulsing a lot of AoE damage).

Usually what I do (and did in progression) is just assign at least 1 hunter to kiting one of them, and tell the melee they should help with that too (taunting and keeping them away from boss).

1 of the infernals should always be on top of the boss, tanked by your active tank (not on banish).

The idea is to focus dps and burst the infernal near boss, then the tank taunts another one and that one gets focused.

[time0ut]

Hey man, since I know nothing about resto druids, can you please expound on that? They just realized swiftmend was a thing a few days ago, and trying to work that into their rotation. Aside from that, I don't really know what they can do to improve.

Basically what Plastkin said.

His buff uptime and spell usage weren't optimal. His gear and spec looked reasonable though.

Just have him go look through logs of a similar ilvl druid on the same fight and compare them to his. Compare which spells they case and how often. Compare their buff uptimes and cooldown usage. Etc. The differences will be obvious.

[Aktec]

Your druid should be using different talents force of nature is kinda bad and he would probably benefit a lot from tree form also personally i love heart of the wild and on archimonde just save it for the last phase when shit hits the fan.

He should also have more healing from wild growth, its the harder hitting healing spell outside of tranq but its kinda hard to judge that because you are overhealing this fight (you can see it in the logs, 3 of your healers have 50% overhealing one each of your 7min+ pulls) and with a disc and holy pally can be hard for druids to get a word in healing wise. I would suggest going back to 3 healers if possible.

[Zhere]

Depending on your addons (I believe it's either Deadly Boss Mods or Exorsus Raid Tools), infernals will be marked in the order they spawn. The order will be Star (yellow) > Circle (ornage) > Diamond (purple). Basically, just assign specific people to specific infernals, it's less chaotic, and aim to kill them in the order they spawn as that's also the order they will start pulsing damage.

That being said, you still need to work out other things. People die to Living Shadows not being handled correctly, both your hunters are MM so they should be handling thosse. Living Shadow is an add that spawns from nether portals (the area you were in when you entered nether), it will fixate and run to a target, dealing about 250k damage and reduce healing taken by 40% for nearly a minute. This effect stacks, so if you are hit 3 times you can no longer be healed. Doomfire must be handled better, it deals a lot of damage to your raid and stresses your healers for no reason. Communication should be improved on unleashed torment, sometimes 3 chains are popped within 2seconds of each others, that's 250k raid wide damage in 2 seconds, this could kill someone, especially if it were to happen around the time of infernals. Then there is also the obvious people should play their class more efficiently, but if you improve tacts then people will have more room to breathe and think about playing efficiently. I can also point out some minor things which may help if you wish.

Good luck on Archi!

[Deleted]

They can be kited by hunters for sure - not sure if snares work, roots and stuns I don't think so. Warlorcks Banish works but not adviseable (if they stay alive for long they start pulsing a lot of AoE damage).

Usually what I do (and did in progression) is just assign at least 1 hunter to kiting one of them, and tell the melee they should help with that too (taunting and keeping them away from boss).

1 of the infernals should always be on top of the boss, tanked by your active tank (not on banish).

The idea is to focus dps and burst the infernal near boss, then the tank taunts another one and that one gets focused.

They can be stunned even on Mythic

[rovingdeath]

Thanks again, you've all been great!

- - - Updated - - -

Zhere,

All quite sound, thanks. I'm interested in the minor things if you care to share =)

[Speedlance]

If you're EU, I don't mind coming on my hunter and help. I don't need any items or anything but I can help you. Free of charge obviously

[rovingdeath]

If you're EU, I don't mind coming on my hunter and help. I don't need any items or anything but I can help you. Free of charge obviously

Very kind, but I'm NA =)

[Zhere]

People need to get further away from impacts during Rain of Chaos, especially your resto druid standing in positions I can only imagine to be in the center of the impacts. Introduce interrupt rotation for "Felborne Overfiend" (green add), every cast it gets off is 1.5m damage to heal. People need to not get hit by Wrought Chaos, I see a few times 5 people were hit by a beam that should not have been hit. Some people never pick up the protection from shadow damage during p1.5 (85% > 70%), this seems to be minor though based on your healers mana entering p4, except your monk, your monk always have low resources towards p4. But yeah, any healer mana saved in p1-p3 is mana they can use to spam heal in p4.

Also, again, doomfires need a lot of work, it was a lot worse than I thought going over your logs again.

[Rockford]

One little thing to add which helps immensely is that the tanks not AoE while the infernals are out. But it's absolutely vital that the tank who's up only has aggro on Archie, and nothing else. So no BB or Thrash while infernals are out. Kind of obvious, but you get the idea

People use personal cooldowns, hunters to use misdirect and distracting shot. Rogue's can tank infernals for short periods of time.

When we first started on Archie's last phase, we tried to time chains around rain. The initial damage was pretty tough. Now-days, we pretty much brute force it

Hoping this helps ♥

Edit1:
I haven't seen logs yet, but will update on any extra info.
Edit2:
Now seen.
Getting a bursty ranged to take out the living shadows as soon as they pop up is a great idea.
Tanks absolutely should not be AoE'ing (6:36 in the Replay) while infernals are up and about as when they're in proximity, they heal Archie. Grab your other druids and rogue (even if they shift to bear, evasion, feint) to tank them away from the boss. If they have no threat from the tanks, they'll be easy to grab and move away.
Edit3:
Just an observation. The bottom of the gateway being a perfect spot for the first banish which looks to be the case here (use banish groups, and have the tank in position before the banish starts), the other tank should now grab Archie out of the banish AoE swirl so he's now only just standing out of it, then shift around Archie so he's placed on the edge on the banish AoE area. And stay there (do NOT move from that position. AMS should help the DK a ton). Again, avoiding the use of Blood Boil, Defile, Thrash and Maul if if's glyphed (it should be) and only tanking Archie. All other mobs should be ignored by the tank. Once the second banish is out, the Tank doesn't even have to move. Second banish group runs to the tank, other one picks up, and runs to the edge of the Banish AoE swirl. Repeat...

On the third banish, (only if Archie's health is low enough) we use a sac group of the tank who's ready for the banish, and 2 pre-determined players who may be low on the dps charts. No need for a healer for this group.

Edit4:
Something to help while banished. There's a broken pillar on it's side. Back into this if you're unable to kill the star with ranged. It'll save you from getting thrown

Again, hoping this all helps ♥

[Zhere]

Tanks absolutely should not be AoE'ing (6:36 in the Replay) while infernals are up and about as when they're in proximity, they heal Archie.

Infernals only heal each others, not archi.

[Rockford]

Infernals only heal each others, not archi.

Ahhh, my mistake. Had gotten mixed with the heal he receives from <3 people dropping into Banish.
Still, an extremely good idea to stick with the above strat as you still don't want an infernal sitting on Archie.