So we're done here?

[Gatsbybutters]

We're hitting 90%+ groups being reserve groups in the premade finder.
I MAKE MY OWN GROUPS. I know many will read the first sentence, stop, and go into immediate make your own group shit posting, so clarity.

Another friend of mine just quit after leveling up to max and trying to get into raiding. He looked in the premade, all reserve groups. He checked with guilds on the server, all loot council. All he wanted to do was roll on items that dropped in a video game. But the players wouldn't even let him do that. All he wanted to do was play a video game when I was working or not around, but he couldn't, because the other people playing the video game. And I'm betting someone is raging on the inside wanting to caps post how a new player who doesn't know the strats, comp, or even how to convert a group to raid should make his own raid, and it just bums me out.

It's way out of hand. At this point it's like most people playing think they are in skyrim. Just a heads up: behind those player character you see running around, is an actual human being. I'm not even effected by this god awful shitty behavior and it's making me cringe. I don't care how good, or bad you are, or how long you've been playing this stupid, easy video game. Just find a sliver of empathy for the other people running around in this fake world before you drive all the new players away and the game dies.

tldr if you reserve pixels in a video game, you're a sad sack that's killing the game you love so much.

[Playintrafic]

I have to agree. With your opinion. Maybe spend 25$ and transfer to a better server once he finds a guild worth playing with?

Or else, level an alt on that server. Leveling alts isn't too bad, especially with looms being cross server now.

[Hyve]

Maybe he ought to find a guild?

[Geckoo]

Don't blame the players just because they also want to get items and put the effort to form a group, specially after so much time most of the players are tired of the raid and just want that specific item they need. But this is mostly a problem with the whole loot system.

Premade groups should either have forced personal loot or a voting system to choose how loot should work in that group.

Guild groups of course want to work with a better loot distribution than luck, since they need to think about gearing up as a team.

Anyway, personal loot is the answer for almost all problems related with loot, the problem is that for something as personal loot to work as the only loot system, we need that the game provides more constant loot.

[Gatsbybutters]

So you want new players to pay more real money or spend time leveling another toon to max on a different server? Hint: they won't, they'll just quit.

Find a guild. Find a guild. Find a guild. Top guilds: 720+ cutting edge achive or gtfo. Middle guilds: all loot council for some reason. Bottom guilds: wiping on 2nd boss for 2 hours a night because they can't tab. Find a guild new players they say. Because it's super easy! Right?

[Ryuda]

While I do agree that reserving loot via group finder has gotten pretty out of hand, and I do think something should be done about it, whether it be by the community ostracizing such behavior, or Blizz coming up with a system that makes reserving loot in group finder impossible/more effort than it's worth.

As for the guilds, it just sounds like you're on a terrible server, and probably should transfer/re-roll if you want to actually get into raiding. I haven't seen LC used for loot in a long time.

[Deleted]

He checked with guilds on the server, all loot council. All he wanted to do was roll on items that dropped in a video game. But the players wouldn't even let him do that. All he wanted to do was play a video game when I was working or not around, but he couldn't, because the other people playing the video game. And I'm betting someone is raging on the inside wanting to caps post how a new player who doesn't know the strats, comp, or even how to convert a group to raid should make his own raid, and it just bums me out.

Unfortunately the only active raiding guild at the moment are the one with somewhat the strongest bond in the game currently and those guilds prefer loot council. The time when the loot distribution was done by rolling inside of a "raiding" guild is long dead. Especially after 10 man and 25 man hc was merged into 20 man mythic.

Just find a sliver of empathy for the other people running around in this fake world before you drive all the new players away and the game dies.

tldr if you reserve pixels in a video game, you're a sad sack that's killing the game you love so much.

Actually this is action made mainly by new players and i will tell you why - because big part of those "new" players are kids who think they are entitled and have to get their toys(pixels in this case) asap and they will destroy anything that wouldn't allow them to get the said toy/pixel and unfortunately the LFG is the perfect tool for this.
Yes there are also ""mythic" raiders" who just want to gear their alts without being stuck in HFC for too long, because they are too bored of it already anyway and again LFG is the perfect tool for this. All it needs is "If you don't like it don't join it" or "If you don't like it made your own group" statements to give them the excuse to do this and Blizzard can't do shit about it.


TL;DR People are people and in general we are all asses. Best advise i can give you is - tell your friend that this game is not nice to new people in the end of each expansion. If he want to experience our beloved game the right way he have to start playing it when a new one comes out and stay for the full lengt expansion and he will understand why the game is in such state atm.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gatsbybutters]

Don't blame the players just because they also want to get items and put the effort to form a group, specially after so much time most of the players are tired of the raid and just want that specific item they need. But this is mostly a problem with the whole loot system.

Premade groups should either have forced personal loot or a voting system to choose how loot should work in that group.

Guild groups of course want to work with a better loot distribution than luck, since they need to think about gearing up as a team.

Anyway, personal loot is the answer for almost all problems related with loot, the problem is that for something as personal loot to work as the only loot system, we need that the game provides more constant loot.

The "effort". Ughhhh really? I clicking accept and pressing your strat macro THAT much effort?

And these poor players running a raid they don't want to raid anymore for an item they want for the raid they don't want to raid later... someone please help them.

[Ryuda]

Don't blame the players just because they also want to get items and put the effort to form a group, specially after so much time most of the players are tired of the raid and just want that specific item they need. But this is mostly a problem with the whole loot system.

There is also a certain degree of truth to this. The reality is, coming into the game at the end of a tier/expansion sucks, plain and simple, it sucked for me coming in at the end of Vanilla (Like, you think there's issues with him trying to raid? Oh boy, trust me, he has it easy if people reserving loot is the biggest problem), it sucked for people coming in half-way through SWP, it sucked for people coming in at the end of ICC when people wanted Light of Dawn title and 6k GS for 10m normal ICC, it sucked for Dragon Soul, because, well, Dragon Soul, and it sucks now. People reserve loot because a lot of people are at the point where there's only a handful of upgrades left, Personal Loot is still too "dumb" with drops to make farming with it viable, so people reserve loot.

Does it suck if somebody's reserving the piece you want? Yeah. But it's possible to work around it.

[Gatsbybutters]

I don't know why being late in the expansion is being used a counter point when I've been playing since beta and noticed reserve groups abound on the day of release for HM, BRC, and HFC. From what I noticed the trend started to pick up after cross server Mythic SoO dropped and has gotten exponentially worse from there.

[DeadSwordz]

So you want new players to pay more real money or spend time leveling another toon to max on a different server? Hint: they won't, they'll just quit.

Find a guild. Find a guild. Find a guild. Top guilds: 720+ cutting edge achive or gtfo. Middle guilds: all loot council for some reason. Bottom guilds: wiping on 2nd boss for 2 hours a night because they can't tab. Find a guild new players they say. Because it's super easy! Right?

Whats wrong with joining a guild that uses loot council?

[CptAwesome]

So you want new players to pay more real money or spend time leveling another toon to max on a different server? Hint: they won't, they'll just quit.

Find a guild. Find a guild. Find a guild. Top guilds: 720+ cutting edge achive or gtfo. Middle guilds: all loot council for some reason. Bottom guilds: wiping on 2nd boss for 2 hours a night because they can't tab. Find a guild new players they say. Because it's super easy! Right?

Why is loot council a problem? If the guild is already established and raiding at any decent level, they won't need much stuff from the early bosses anyway.
If you were a solid part of a raid team for months then some guy comes in, first raid and wins the WF+socket trinket because "lol outrolled" you would think that is a giant pile of bullshit.

Sounds like your friend is the one with the attitude problem, he's too good to wipe and progress with the lower guilds, he's too impatient to wait his turn with a loot council and he's too bad/lazy to get himself ready for the higher guilds. (Which btw, will mostly also be loot council.)

[QuiksLE]

Getting level 100 does not entitle you with anything.

Newsflash, everyone is level 100. If you want loot, you need to work for it and earn it. Just because you were in a raid and did basic rotation does not put you on the same level as the guy who has done the same thing for 50 times now.


Earn your place in the raidgroup. Prove you are worthy. Don't start crying that people don't trust you the second they meet you

[Ryuda]

The "effort". Ughhhh really? I clicking accept and pressing your strat macro THAT much effort?

And these poor players running a raid they don't want to raid anymore for an item they want for the raid they don't want to raid later... someone please help them.

If that's all you do as a Raid Lead, even in a PuG, you're not a good Raid Lead.

As someone who has been running fairly successful PuG groups from early Wrath through about last Sept. (Had to stop because Class, guild raids, Social Life have been eating up all my time.) There is a significant amount of effort involved in leading a successful group that's more than just a revolving door of idiots until you inevitably fall apart on the "PuG-breaker" boss.

And, yeah, what Deithy said is spot on, simply said, joining at the end of an expansion sucks, everything being new for you while being commonplace for everyone else just breeds a bad environment.

[h4rr0d]

The reserve groups usually have only couple items (tier tokens, trinket, weapon, ...) reserved, I doubt there are too many groups that would say "All that drops I can use is mine".

Look at it from their perspective. At this point, everyone experienced enough to run a PUG raid has probably run HFC way too many times for their liking and are missing only couple items for their respective BIS gear (or maybe want an off-piece for xmog). Chances are, these people won't be rolling on majority of the loot that drops as they are after that one specific piece of gear. Some people actually play the game for the gear and they probably feel entitled for some kind of reward for organising and leading a raid. Saying "IF these items drop, I'm getting them." seems pretty fair to me.

As for guilds, if a guild actually accepts a new player right now, they'll be boosting him for the foreseeable future (the legendary ring is fairly big deal). No guild I know is using rolls for loot and personal loot this late into a tier doesn't make any sense. As for loot distribution, it all boils down to my argument above. I remember losing a much needed weapon upgrade to a new guy (it was as big upgrade for him as it was for me though) in guild that used EPGP. I was in the position to just take the item regardless (and some ppl encouraged me to), but for obvious reasons I didn't. All I can say is it was very frustrating experience.

I'm fairly sure your friend wouldn't be running without getting any gear in a loot council guild. Loot drops like candy and unless it's warforged, people usually have everything they want by now.

[cFortyfive]

At this point it's like most people playing think they are in skyrim.

Isn't that exactly what people want ?
Anyways what's the exact problem again ?

Because it's super easy! Right?

it kinda is most entry lower end guilds even recruit out of /2. Not even sure why you mention "top guilds" as if that's supposed to be the go to action for someone who just recently started the game.

The reserve groups usually have only couple items (tier tokens, trinket, weapon, ...) reserved, I doubt there are too many groups that would say "All that drops I can use is mine".

Well that should be easy enough to check.

[Summer]

Tbh raid leading pugs is a thankless job and I've always felt that someone willing to do that has every right to reserve whatever gear he wants out of it. If Blizz forced this out by for example forcing LFG pugs to personal loot there would simply be that much less groups since I'm sure many people would not judge the effort worth the reward.

At the end of the day raiding should be a somewhat organised activity. Sure there are pugs but they'll never work that well.

Basically if your friend wants to do raiding when he wants to, without any loot being reserved etc. -> LFR
If he wants to do normal / heroic and actually have a good experience -> join a guild

And yeah there are *a lot* of new / very casual guilds at least on my server still doing progress in normal / heroic that will access people who've put in the basic effort of enchanting their gear etc.

[MrExcelion]

I'm consistently able to find personal loot groups on a weekly basis for the bosses I need, but don't expect to find full runs or anything, just joining one boss at a time, or on rare occasions, forming an individual group (expecting to take an hour for one boss in that case since it's from scratch). It would better if the GFinder highlighted which were personal though

[Gatsbybutters]

"what's wrong with loot council" Loot council is nonsense. It's used properly maybe 1 out of 100 times. Loot council most of the time means the 3-4 close friends running the guild get the items. Loot council is supposed to be about progressing the group as fast as possible, but most times it's just greedy nerds being greedy nerds.

[Sprinky]

If he couldn't understand the basic principles of effort vs reward then the game is better off without him.