[MARKSMANSHIP]Legion Alpha Discussion

[threads]

Right sticking to their guns worked SOOOOO well in WOD, so it's "retarded" to want to play a class you enjoyed for over 8 years. (with any luck it will go downhill enough for you not to play, that will make it a much better game in the long run.)

(or to sum up your post wahhhh someone may get back something they liked so I have to be a dick about it)

you didn't enjoy the legion version of MM for 8 years, you literally just want a pet to follow you around. so yea pretty retarded.

[Dadwen]

you didn't enjoy the legion version of MM for 8 years, you literally just want a pet to follow you around. so yea pretty retarded.

for one No I liked SV more and I played that for 8 years (but I'd give MM a try if it has a Pet in legion), and I really didn't like MM with LW in WOD I tried it, so no you're wrong I like the pet class for tanking and kiting mobs... (no surprise your wrong on both counts.)

really you're wrong on 3 counts if I wanted a pet just to follow me around there are always the pokieman ones (battle-pets)

ether way if it's enough to make someone that comes off as a jerk as much as you do. to quit it's a good change.

[Deleted]

And what gameplay is the pet supposed to in group content add besides looking pretty and being a dumb dot that occasionally pulls shit?

[Dadwen]

And what gameplay is the pet supposed to in group content add besides looking pretty and being a dumb dot that occasionally pulls shit?

good thing there are other things than group content (well hopefully other things) in legion. (the lack to world stuff to do seems to have been most peoples complaint about WOD *mine was the class design)

*come to think of it, it came in handy at stopping flag capping if you were frozen or stunned in bg's too)

[Deleted]

good thing there are other things than group content (well hopefully other things) in legion.

Great, so we should put up with a pointless dumbass pet in all the content that is actually hard just so that you can solo with Fluffy without switching to BM.

[Peyton76]

Just posting my thoughts on the pet change I had on the other forums here.

I am very sad to see that the direction to go petless has been stalled/reversed and that Marksmanship is getting the pet back.

I'll start by saying I used to enjoy pets back when there was some form of attachment to them, finding one with unique stats, look and species was a lot of fun. Even little things considered tedious like feeding your pet with the right food at least gave some link between you and your companion. Now the pet is just one of many in your vast collection with the only differences being look and what buff your party wants. Maybe those mechanical changes affected me or maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon but the pet charm for me is gone and if I wanted it back I would enjoy one of the other specs with it.

The idea of a petless spec focused entirely on ranged combat with no spellcasting, magic, summoning or cursing is the ideal class for me and so many others that I'm shocked to see the negative feedback towards it and the positive towards it's reversal.

Sure you now have a "choice" and that's great in the perfect game where balance is flawless and design is confident and unique. That simply will never be the case with having Lone Wolf as a talent, PvE, PvP, questing or whatever field of play you want to enjoy. The thought that it will purely be a flavor choice is a laughable one, and one that still is a detriment to the overall design of the class/spec.

More than simple balance concerns, however, I'm concerned with the actual direction of Marksmanship in general. Now instead of coming up with a new way of getting MM through some challenge/task or keeping it from excelling at something without the use of pets as a whole, There will now be two types of MM hunters to consider. I can't help but compare it to protection warriors with Gladiator stance causing a split in the direction of the spec, this was scrapped because it didn't live up to what Blizz envisioned and was difficult to maintain.

In WoD we already have Lone Wolf as an option of course and the division isn't as apparent but they haven't really tried to make Lone Wolf any different apart from losing all pet utility and getting increased damage %. With Legion the design of MM has been greatly changed to fit a Marksmanship focus rather than a Pet and some identical abilities that end with the word shot. For example, if you want to go Lone Wolf in competitive PvP currently, you had better be in a ball full of healers and allies ready to support you because the current PvP balance of MM is not at all functional without the utility a pet provides. Petless MM come Legion would be focused on that type of play rather than an occaisional gimmick option in PvP.

I was excited to see a lot of the change in theme for MM coming in Legion, this is personal preference but I particularly enjoyed the slight shift towards the 'Dark Ranger' abilities for one thing. A new direction that probably wouldn't have been explored without radical changes in both SV and MM.

Something about the reasons for the change is confusing me as well. If the reason for bringing the pet back is because people wanted their loyal companion instead of appealing to the wilds around them, why on earth should Marksmanship take the change and not Beast Mastery which should have that area in focus anyways?

If there is a good reason for changing it with Marksmanship rather than BM, then why isn't the talent a reverse of Lone Wolf for people who want a pet but don't want to play the other two pet focused specs that the class has to offer. Why not keep Marksmanship based around the idea of a petless spec but give a talent to return the pet, wouldn't that be less extreme? The current baseline change making 3 out of 3 specs have pets with one having the option of petless (balance allowing) while sacrificing a talent tier just doesn't make sense to me.

TL;DR: Why split the theme of Marksmanship as a spec for the sake of familiarity instead of changing the actual pet specs. Alternatively, why wouldn't the talent give a pet rather than remove one if there must be one.

[Dadwen]

Great, so we should put up with a pointless dumbass pet in all the content that is actually hard just so that you can solo with Fluffy without switching to BM.

yaaaaaa too bad we are stuck to one fixed spec, right not like one could take the LW for raids and such if they wanted to with a 2nd MM spec naaahh...

[Deleted]

yaaaaaa too bad we are stuck to one fixed spec, right not like one could take the LW for raids and such if they wanted to with a 2nd MM spec naaahh...

Because balance is always perfect. BRB, respeccing Exotic Munitions for tonight's M Archi.

[Dadwen]

Because balance is always perfect. BRB, respeccing Exotic Munitions for tonight's M Archi.

well if we are going off WOD LW will be the better option so you seem to be getting all in a huff for no reason.
(or more likely you're like threadz that just gets pissed off when someone may get something they like even though it really does not take anything away from you.)

[Deleted]

well if we are going off WOD LW will be the better option so you seem to be getting all in a huff for no reason.
(or more likely you're like threadz that just gets pissed off when someone may get something they like even though it really does not take anything away from you.)

Or more likely you're daft.

If LW is superior for everything like now, we get six talent tiers.

If it isn't, we're forced to use a pet.

Either way we lose, all so you can use your precious pet for soloing without switching to either of the two specs that are already heavily themed towards pet usage.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Jesus, just spec LW and let the rest of us be happy. LW will probably still be better anyway unless pet travel/downtime is zero in Legion, which I doubt.

Calling people whiners for wanting pets after that post, irony+

I don't even play a hunter, but thanks for missing the point completely.

[Dadwen]

Or more likely you're daft.

If LW is superior for everything like now, we get six talent tiers.

If it isn't, we're forced to use a pet.

Either way we lose, all so you can use your precious pet outside of the two specs that are already heavily themed towards pet usage.

you mean one spec (I'd much rather have SV back like LK or WOD, but either way I don't want to play a melee spec not what I wanted when I picked this class) and boohoo why should I feel for you, you don't seem to care I'm forced to play a spec that the pet is the main damage and nothing like old MM or SV I've played for years, so give me one reason why I should care what your play preference is if you don't respect mine.

*hell for all we know SV may blow the others out of the water and you may all be screwed (*I'm not a fotm re-roller so no biggie)

[Deleted]

you mean one spec (I'd much rather have SV back like LK or WOD, but either way I don't want to play a melee spec not what I wanted when I picked this class) and boohoo why should I feel for you, you don't seem to care I'm forced to play a spec that the pet is the main damage and nothing like old MM or SV I've played for years, so give me one reason why I should care what you're play preference is if you don't respect mine.

I don't expect you to care, I expect you to shut up or bring a good reason to add a pointless pet to MM PVE.

[Dadwen]

I don't expect you to care, I expect you to shut up or bring a good reason to add a pointless pet to MM PVE.

well right now the best reason I can find it seems to piss you off, but others have posted a number of reasons and the fact they've had the pet based MM class for over 10 years and many have played it and enjoyed it seems good enough reason to keep it.

*and the fact they are even thinking about putting the pets back in means they've had enough feedback it's worth it for them to think about it.

[Deleted]

well right now the best reason I can find it seems to piss you off

We're done here then, go play with your useless ball off fluff or whatever it is that amuses you.

[Dadwen]

We're done here then, go play with your useless ball off fluff or whatever it is that amuses you.

you seeming to get upset over others getting something they enjoy kinda amuses me greatly.

[Eapoe]

The problem now is that at this point, Blizzard took something away from MM that they've had since the game was introduced, which has also been a core part of the class lore and fantasy wise, the pet. Some people were happy, most of the people posting were not. The change to MM might have been too drastic for the class at this point when combined with the giant change to SV going melee. A good option would have been making a 4th spec viable, but I don't even want to think of the thought process that would take and how unlikely it would ever be.
This is a change that happened to Warlocks and it worked for them, so even with the outcry not sure why Blizzard reverted it for MM and now have to develop more time and resources into rebalancing with 2 different versions of the same spec again.

[Keyimin]

Yeah, I have to say I was a bit surprised, after seeing the change to BM to try to accommodate the hunter + one pet fantasy, that Blizz also reverted back to MM pet + LW. Seems this might be a case of overcompensation at the total expense of the design philosophy.

EDIT to add: That said, I'm glad the devs are at least attempting to address feedback, even if it's not in the way we'd all like.

[marzix]

The thing is, I'd be fine if they made my pet as marksman do no damage, have no hps, just is there, non cosmetic like, but doesn't do anything, just to have it. Hunters have a pet, just the way it always is. Introducing Lone Wolf in the first place is what made the class bad. What they SHOULD have done is make 2 sub classes with in hunter, each with 2 specs. Ranged vs Melee. Ranged with and without pet much likeSurvival and MM now. Melee with BM and the new survival. Isn't Rexxar a BM hunter who dual wields, has multiple pets... ? BM should have become the melee class from the start, it never did make sense to me.

[Eapoe]

The thing is, I'd be fine if they made my pet as marksman do no damage, have no hps, just is there, non cosmetic like, but doesn't do anything, just to have it. Hunters have a pet, just the way it always is. Introducing Lone Wolf in the first place is what made the class bad. What they SHOULD have done is make 2 sub classes with in hunter, each with 2 specs. Ranged vs Melee. Ranged with and without pet much likeSurvival and MM now. Melee with BM and the new survival. Isn't Rexxar a BM hunter who dual wields, has multiple pets... ? BM should have become the melee class from the start, it never did make sense to me.

Not sure I agree completely. The sub specs would be nice (or even that class fantasy I started and mentioned stance dancing for hunters going to and from range to melee), but from a development point would be a nightmare to make sure everything viable and still maintain some spec identity. Let's face it too, if they ever did something like that the outcry from other classes wanting it would follow and be an even bigger headache to devs. I do agree it seems like BM should have been the melee spec though and SV more the ranged trap expert (also with a pet in the vein of hunting things together).