Anatomy of a False Rape Accusation

[Theodarzna]

False accusations are rare enough that you don't need to worry about them really

The phrase 10 guilty people go free rather than 1 innocent go to prison thus is not a Maxim you believe in?

[Noradin]

Reporting the names of alleged sex attackers is a double edged sword. On one hand it helps enable other victims to come forward and in the UK this has lead to a number of historical sexual assault cases to not only be brought to court but successfully prosecuted where the evidence of a single victim would not have been strong enough. However it has, also, lead to a number of high profile but ultimately false accusations.

The current system is far from perfect but I really have no idea how to improve upon it.

You could keep a database (on paper, not connected to the internet) that isn't open to the public where such accusations can be registered.
If you make an accusation of a crime in public then you should be required to also make it in court or face charges for collusion.

[Theodarzna]

No need to prevent them from reporting, just have them leave out the identity of the person until the case is decided (exceptions for people of public interest as always).
They aren't allowed to print copyrighted pictures on every page of a leaflet and call it a "newspaper" reporting on the "state of the art" or something either, are they?

Also, where in freedom of the press does it say that everyone can tell them anything they want?
I cannot tell a reporter about company secrets without consequences just because they are a "reporter" and not an industrial spy, can I?

I just find Endus' selective support for free speech rather hilarious.

[Pann]

You could keep a database (on paper, not connected to the internet) that isn't open to the public where such accusations can be registered.
If you make an accusation of a crime in public then you should be required to also make it in court or face charges for collusion.

The problem is that does not work. In the case of Jimmy Saville, in the UK, it was the publicity of the investigation into his past crimes that prompted victims to report the abuse they had suffered. It was only then that many of victims, some of whom had previously reported him only to have their claims dismissed, had the courage to come forward and that we became aware of his heinous acts that spanned half a century. On the flip side there have been investigations and subsequent court cases against men who are innocent.

Yeah, your second point is nonsense.

[Noradin]

False accusations are rare enough that you don't need to worry about them really

How do you define "rare enough", would it also apply to murder?

[sexybeast]

False accusations are rare enough that you don't need to worry about them really

it bloody well happened to me... so no, it's not rare enough to not worry about.

prick

[Noradin]

The problem is that does not work. In the case of Jimmy Saville, in the UK, it was the publicity of the investigation into his past crimes that prompted victims to report the abuse they had suffered. It was only then that many of victims, some of whom had previously reported him only to have their claims dismissed, had the courage to come forward and that we became aware of his heinous acts that spanned half a century. On the flip side there have been investigations and subsequent court cases against men who are innocent.

Yeah, your second point is nonsense.

Then there should be something done to encourage people to report these cases even if they do not have enough proof - like, maybe a database that doesn't immediately lead to a hearing and probable dismissal due to lack of proof in court?

If you publicly claim a crime was commited then you should be required to report it to the authorites. What about that is nonsense?
If you claim it in public but do not report it then likely you cannot prove it - thus you are ruining the reputation and possible life of someone legally innocent whom you think the law would not convict. Thus you are basically committing vigilantism or in case where you know the accusation is untrue you are attacking an innocent.

[Hana Song]

How do you define "rare enough", would it also apply to murder?

Do you go around worrying about being murdered? I know I don't

[pateuvasiliu]

No rational, sensible, moral person would falsely accuse an innocent man of abduction and sexual assault-and certainly not to hide the fact that the eighteen-year-old was sexually active.

And no rational, sensible, moral person would rape.

So why are we assuming men are more likely to be irrational, insensible and immoral?

Oh right because men are the devil and penises are Satan's weapon.

No shit false accusations are reported at 2% when to prove it was a false accusation you literally need the accuser to say in a text message that she's only doing it to ruin the guy's life. And who would be that idiotic?

Have you people met people? The average human isn't the pinnacle of morality. Does it really shock you someone would lie about being raped to get revenge/blackmail/attention and so on? Because considering the things I see people do for mundane reasons every day I'm not at all surprised.

[Theodarzna]

And no rational, sensible, moral person would rape.

So why are we assuming men are more likely to be irrational, insensible and immoral?

Oh right because men are the devil and penises are Satan's weapon.

No shit false accusations are reported at 2% when to prove it was a false accusation you literally need the accuser to say in a text message that she's only doing it to ruin the guy's life. And who would be that idiotic?

Have you people met people? The average human isn't the pinnacle of morality. Does it really shock you someone would lie about being raped to get revenge/blackmail/attention and so on? Because considering the things I see people do for mundane reasons every day I'm not at all surprised.

You forget "Women are Wonderful," WE get the benefit of presumptive benign intent, because we are without sin or flaw. Men are the evil corruptors, sinners, and spreaders of vice.

With False Accusations, actually proving a false accusation has occurred is yes, very difficult.

[Pann]

Then there should be something done to encourage people to report these cases even if they do not have enough proof - like, maybe a database that doesn't immediately lead to a hearing and probable dismissal due to lack of proof in court?

If you publicly claim a crime was commited then you should be required to report it to the authorites. What about that is nonsense?
If you claim it in public but do not report it then likely you cannot prove it - thus you are ruining the reputation and possible life of someone legally innocent whom you think the law would not convict. Thus you are basically committing vigilantism or in case where you know the accusation is untrue you are attacking an innocent.

How do you encourage people to report crimes when there may not be enough evidence to proceed with a prosecution let alone secure a conviction? Especially when the victim has been convinced by the person who attacked them that no-one will believe them. The current system is far from perfect but your solution does nothing to fix its problems.

What are you talking about if there is a lack of evidence that a person has committed a crime then they are protected be employment laws.

Why? Many crimes are not worth the hassle of reporting. If someone finds themselves in the position that someone else is making unfounded accusations against them then they are free to address this in a court under current defamation laws and in some cases the accusations may well fall foul of criminal law.

In short there are already laws in place to protect people in the situations you've described.

[Theodarzna]

How do you encourage people to report crimes when there may not be enough evidence to proceed with a prosecution let alone secure a conviction? Especially when the victim has been convinced by the person who attacked them that no-one will believe them. The current system is far from perfect but your solution does nothing to fix its problems.

What are you talking about if there is a lack of evidence that a person has committed a crime then they are protected be employment laws.

Why? Many crimes are not worth the hassle of reporting. If someone finds themselves in the position that someone else is making unfounded accusations against them then they are free to address this in a court under current defamation laws and in some cases the accusations may well fall foul of criminal law.

In short there are already laws in place to protect people in the situations you've described.

Well now thanks to social media making an accusation is super easy, even without a trial or evidence one can effectively exact vengeance on someone without the need for trials.

As might be the case with Kesha as one example were previous court documents have her stating no sexual assault happened or the recent accusation against male porn performer James Dean who likewise was tried in the Court of Twitter.

[Jotaux]

How do you encourage people to report crimes when there may not be enough evidence to proceed with a prosecution let alone secure a conviction? Especially when the victim has been convinced by the person who attacked them that no-one will believe them. The current system is far from perfect but your solution does nothing to fix its problems.

What are you talking about if there is a lack of evidence that a person has committed a crime then they are protected be employment laws.

Why? Many crimes are not worth the hassle of reporting. If someone finds themselves in the position that someone else is making unfounded accusations against them then they are free to address this in a court under current defamation laws and in some cases the accusations may well fall foul of criminal law.

In short there are already laws in place to protect people in the situations you've described.

so your solution is to destroy the life of someone who may or may not be guilty?

[Pann]

Well now thanks to social media making an accusation is super easy, even without a trial or evidence one can effectively exact vengeance on someone without the need for trials.

As might be the case with Kesha as one example were previous court documents have her stating no sexual assault happened or the recent accusation against male porn performer James Dean who likewise was tried in the Court of Twitter.

Social media is not immune from defamation laws.

[Theodarzna]

Social media is not immune from defamation laws.

Defamation laws are not enough, the social power of the accusation is enough punishment to ruin someone. The fact that these trial via twitter are socially acceptable is a key problem IMHO.

[Pann]

so your solution is to destroy the life of someone who may or may not be guilty?

Uhm, no. Maybe trying reading before posting in future?

- - - Updated - - -

Defamation laws are not enough, the social power of the accusation is enough punishment to ruin someone. The fact that these trial via twitter are socially acceptable is a key problem IMHO.

I agree that social media has gotten out of hand. But are accusations made on twitter really enough to ruin someone or do the majority of people simply ignore what is written on social media?

[Theodarzna]

I agree that social media has gotten out of hand. But are accusations made on twitter really enough to ruin someone or do the majority of people simply ignore what is written on social media?

In the case of James Dean he is now called "The bill cosby of porn," and lost his job. And major media have basically ran with the story as presented by the accusers. Yet no trial that I am aware of has been held.

Kesha's deal has a lot of support and famous people claiming for example "The Government shouldn't get to decide if I was raped." via Lady Gaga..... which to me represents very dangerous thinking.

[Pann]

In the case of James Dean he is now called "The bill cosby of porn," and lost his job. And major media have basically ran with the story as presented by the accusers. Yet no trial that I am aware of has been held.

Kesha's deal has a lot of support and famous people claiming for example "The Government shouldn't get to decide if I was raped." via Lady Gaga..... which to me represents very dangerous thinking.

I have not heard anything about James Dean nor Kesha so I can't really make any comment about them but clearly, from what you've described, this is more than a simple case of someone saying something on social media.

[Stacyrect]

How do you encourage people to report crimes when there may not be enough evidence to proceed with a prosecution let alone secure a conviction? Especially when the victim has been convinced by the person who attacked them that no-one will believe them. The current system is far from perfect but your solution does nothing to fix its problems.

What are you talking about if there is a lack of evidence that a person has committed a crime then they are protected be employment laws.

Why? Many crimes are not worth the hassle of reporting. If someone finds themselves in the position that someone else is making unfounded accusations against them then they are free to address this in a court under current defamation laws and in some cases the accusations may well fall foul of criminal law.

In short there are already laws in place to protect people in the situations you've described.

Not really. This just happened last year, a close friend of mine's father is a greek immigrant who's been in America since the 60's. He's never been able to get his citizenship because he can't afford the attorney, he has a social security card etc etc but he was supposed to leave in the early 70s. A person whom we mutually know ended up cheating on their boyfriend after a game of thrones get together which happened at my friends. Long story short, her boyfriend found well traces of the infidelity somehow and she copped a big story about how she was raped by my friends dad. So yeah boyfriend takes her to the police department, she files the rape charge accusing him, they do the rape kit, full 9 yards. They arrest my friends dad, ICE gets involved and boom no bail, he's detained. So 6 months go by, DNA finally comes back, friends dad is off the hook with rape charges but he was still fucked with ICE, hes since been deported back to greece. Mind you he has no family, nothing waiting for him in greece and he's 74 years old. My friend tried to fly him back to America and he was refused entry. So hes pretty much fucked. Aside from that, my friend and all the people that were there at the get together were slammed by everyone we knew on facebook etc. So their is that, PLUS the police cut a giant fucking rectangle out of her mattress, stole her sheets, pillows. The police broke the door and the door frame to her townhouse when they executed a search warrant while my friend was at work. So in the end, the girl stuck with her story was arrested for falsifying a statement, falsifying a police report. After all the damage and bullshit she created she gets 2 years of probation and has to see a therapist one a week. No one is financially responsible for the damage to my friends mattress and door frame. The girl who's probation doesn't have any money or property and even if she did win a civil suit against her for the property damages, she isn't forced to pay. It goes on her credit report for 7 years. She could even more money then the mattress and door frame to put a lean on her after the civil judgement but like I said, she has no money, no property and even then it's a civil lean it only lasts for 7 years. So yeah in the end, defamation laws are a bullshit thing. It has ZERO bite.

[Theodarzna]

I have not heard anything about James Dean nor Kesha so I can't really make any comment about them but clearly, from what you've described, this is more than a simple case of someone saying something on social media.

As might happen, and as the Article described, typically friends and relatives wish to believe their accusing friend.

These events fit nicely into what the article describes.