Why are Arthas and Bolvar such different lich kings?

[Lylandra]

This isn't D&D, you don't have lawful good aligment and high reputation as requirements for being paladin. See - scarlet crusade.

True. To be a Paladin of the Silver Hand and wield the Light in their ways, you have to be anointed and accepted by the Order of the Silver Hand and be truely convicted in the course of the Light. Even if this means that - later on - you'll do horrible things because you think they are the right things to do. For a milder example than the Scarlets, Tirion was exiled from the Order because he was showing mercy towards an "enemy" (something that would otherwise be an example of the Teachings of the Light: Love yourself and Love everyone else so you can connect to the Universe).

Arthas has always been a weak young man, unsure about the right path. And when he finally found it, it turned out to be the road to oblivion. Arthas became a fanatic, even before obtaining Frostmourne, in his quest to destroy Mal'ganis. What he said to be the salvation of his people was in fact only a delusional quest to reassure himself to be on the right path.

Bolvar Fordragon on the other hand has been a devoted, experienced and humble Paladin for years. He educated Anduin when his father went missing (and when Varian became enthralled by Lady Prestor before) and he kept Stormwind going. We don't know much about him, but I guess he was a gentle "father" and a loyal friend who risked his life many times for his people (unlike Arthas who ultimately sacrificed everything for himself). His belief and strength of character were so great that even Lich King Arthas, who successfully corrupted Saurfang Jr. (not an easy task!), could not break Bolvar.

And I guess his spirit is still unbroken, now that he is the Lich King himself. He might be bitter and resent his fate, but he knows that it is his duty, his final sacrifice. And I don't know whether Tirion would have been able to do such a damn fine job as Bolvar does.

[Hellishreaper]

Arthas chose his fate, twice. The first time in Northrend, when he was ordered to return, which was in the best interest of his men, but he chose instead to burn down their ships, so they could no longer return and killed the ones who helped him do it. that was the turning point at which he showed his true face, it was no longer for hos people it was about vengeance, he sasy it directly before picking up frostmourne as well.

The second time his humanity pleaded with him to stop, he disposed of it and Ner'zhul and unleashed parts of the scourge once more to lure heroes to Northrend, in order resurrect them as his new champions and then unleash the full might of the scourge.

the 2nd time he had no soul, also his journey more or less broke him, after he put his own city to the torch to stop the scourge (Stratholme) he just wasn't the same person anymore

you're basically saying someone that watched their family and friends get murdered in front of them and then went on a killing spree before committing suicide was evil before watching their family get killed, his journey changed him but he truly wasn't the same once he lost his soul he even tells varimathris that he fells no remorse for what he does

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True. To be a Paladin of the Silver Hand and wield the Light in their ways, you have to be anointed and accepted by the Order of the Silver Hand and be truely convicted in the course of the Light. Even if this means that - later on - you'll do horrible things because you think they are the right things to do. For a milder example than the Scarlets, Tirion was exiled from the Order because he was showing mercy towards an "enemy" (something that would otherwise be an example of the Teachings of the Light: Love yourself and Love everyone else so you can connect to the Universe).

Arthas has always been a weak young man, unsure about the right path. And when he finally found it, it turned out to be the road to oblivion. Arthas became a fanatic, even before obtaining Frostmourne, in his quest to destroy Mal'ganis. What he said to be the salvation of his people was in fact only a delusional quest to reassure himself to be on the right path.

Bolvar Fordragon on the other hand has been a devoted, experienced and humble Paladin for years. He educated Anduin when his father went missing (and when Varian became enthralled by Lady Prestor before) and he kept Stormwind going. We don't know much about him, but I guess he was a gentle "father" and a loyal friend who risked his life many times for his people (unlike Arthas who ultimately sacrificed everything for himself). His belief and strength of character were so great that even Lich King Arthas, who successfully corrupted Saurfang Jr. (not an easy task!), could not break Bolvar.

And I guess his spirit is still unbroken, now that he is the Lich King himself. He might be bitter and resent his fate, but he knows that it is his duty, his final sacrifice. And I don't know whether Tirion would have been able to do such a damn fine job as Bolvar does.

this is fanfiction if i ever saw it

also according to wowwiki hes considered "Chaotic good" before frostmourne, which makes sense

[Combatbutler]

the 2nd time he had no soul, also his journey more or less broke him, after he put his own city to the torch to stop the scourge (Stratholme) he just wasn't the same person anymore

you're basically saying someone that watched their family and friends get murdered in front of them and then went on a killing spree before committing suicide was evil before watching their family get killed,

No I am blaming someone throwing the lives of his subjects away for a personal vendetta. He was correct until he reached Northrend, from there it is one self deserved blunder after the other, ultimately choosing his fate

his journey changed him but he truly wasn't the same once he lost his soul he even tells varimathris that he fells no remorse for what he does

It was Tichondrius, though that was a lie, since he did feel conflicted about it.

[Deleted]

All these years into the Warcraft lore, and some people still believe that Arthas was a good guy at heart and "doin it 4 his ppl <3"

Damn.

[steelballfc]

Arthas Abandoned the Light because the Light abandoned him
in the Book there is a Scene when Arthas Horse was injured and needed the Light to be healed, yet the Light didn't answer Arthas Prayer, so he accepted Frostmourn Curse for the Cause of justice

[Logwyn]

All these years into the Warcraft lore, and some people still believe that Arthas was a good guy at heart and "doin it 4 his ppl <3"

Damn.

They want him to be Anakin Skywalker...turned Darth Vader...and then back to the Light side and atonement.

[Lylandra]

the 2nd time he had no soul, also his journey more or less broke him, after he put his own city to the torch to stop the scourge (Stratholme) he just wasn't the same person anymore

you're basically saying someone that watched their family and friends get murdered in front of them and then went on a killing spree before committing suicide was evil before watching their family get killed, his journey changed him but he truly wasn't the same once he lost his soul he even tells varimathris that he fells no remorse for what he does

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this is fanfiction if i ever saw it

also according to wowwiki hes considered "Chaotic good" before frostmourne, which makes sense

No, it is not. It is my own interpreataion of the various sourcebooks and ingame quests. Also, if you'd like to use D&D Alignments, the Scarlet Crusade as a faction is Lawful Evil (see "Dark Factions"; "lands of conflict") and still its members can wield the Light. Therefore, it is not bound to Alignment in the end. You just have to be truely convicted that you're doing the right thing. I also could not find an official source for Arthas' alignment, but I'd be cautious to use D&D alignments in such a "grey" and complicted setting as Warcraft. (One of the books states that it is pretty normal in Azeroth that two LG characters could go at each other's throats and
early D&D used Alignments to cement moral points of view... so those two don't mesh that well imo)

Bolvar and his relationship to Anduin and Varian are part of the early Comic series (before shit hit the fan with Med'an) and Bolvar kind of had to take care for the young boy shortly after Tiffin Wrynn's death when Varian fell into despair and Katrana Prestor took control. He's had to keep the city and Anduin in check for nearly 10 years, so I guess that took some patience and devotion(although he isn't canny enough to see through Prestor's doings). In Northrend, Bolvar doesn't shy back from going to the front lines and has enough courage to break the mass fear caused by a Lich - which is not an easy task.

For the faith/Philosophy of the Light, check the various sources (i.e. the old Core rulebooks). It is indeed more complex than simply "love thy neighbour", but I wouldn't want to paraphrase whole pages

For Arthas' character, I rely on the novel "Arthas" where he moves back and forth between being unsure about doing the right thing and feeling totally convinced that he's right and that he's doing the best for his people. (Plus he has a huge weird horse-obsession to the point where one could trace his fallings back to him feeling guilty of having "killed" Invincible). He has a weak (inexperienced, young and somewhat idealistic) mind indeed. And yes, Stratholme is his first turning point where he feels not only lost, but abandoned and all on his own. Therefore he needs, more than before, to reassure himself to be on the right path (unlike those who left him: his closest friends Jaina and Uther). Otherwise he could have simply gone home and plan alongside his father/friends on what to do next after learning that Mal'ganis was hiding in Northrend.

[Aleksej89]

Did everyone forget that Arthas betrayed the mercenaries that fought for him AND sunk the ships of his own troops while lying to them?
That all happened much before he encountered frostmourne.

He did all that for revenge and vengeance, those were the main reasons he went to northrend.
The safety and security of his people were clearly a distant second by the time he reached the frozen shores.

[Aeula]

I get the feeling Bolvar is just as evil as Arthas, but he's just more sneaky about it, gaining a huge power base and manipulating the ebon blade before attacking.

The only reason he's 'helping' us defeat the legion is because he's scared they'll destroy all the work he's done behind the scenes between the end of wrath and legion.

The only difference between him and Arthas is his situation, which forces him to help us.

[Lotus Victoria]

Bolvar iz gud, Arthas iz maddzz!

[Combatbutler]

I get the feeling Bolvar is just as evil as Arthas, but he's just more sneaky about it, gaining a huge power base and manipulating the ebon blade before attacking.

The only reason he's 'helping' us defeat the legion is because he's scared they'll destroy all the work he's done behind the scenes between the end of wrath and legion.

The only difference between him and Arthas is his situation, which forces him to help us.

If Legion is any indication he operates on a similar moral level like Sylvanas, though he enslaves undead, confines them and has no problems with resurrecting people who step into his territory.

[Arrashi]

If Legion is any indication he operates on a similar moral level like Sylvanas, though he enslaves undead, confines them and has no problems with resurrecting people who step into his territory.

I hope he will drop fashionable mount.

[Deleted]

Arthas became the Lich King because he wanted revenge, and later to rule the world.

Bolvar became the Lich King to keep the Scourge contained.

One is selfless and one is selfish.

[Deleted]

Unlike Arthas Bolvar does not seem interested in taking over the world but we do know he has some "glorious plan" in motion according to the undead elf but he is no longer "good" anymore. I wonder if he knows about the void lords?

[shoc]

New lore shows us that while Nerzhul's presence inside the Helmet was killed by Arthas, there was still Nerzhul's presence lingering inside of Frostmourne.

So in WOTLK, Nerzhul was still pulling some strings via Frostmourne. But Bolvar is free of that influence. Also Bolvar is just a cool dude to begin with, Arthas was always an egomaniac douchebag.

[Mawnix]

He doesn't have Frostmourne to fuck him up.

[Combatbutler]

New lore shows us that while Nerzhul's presence inside the Helmet was killed by Arthas, there was still Nerzhul's presence lingering inside of Frostmourne.

So in WOTLK, Nerzhul was still pulling some strings via Frostmourne. But Bolvar is free of that influence. Also Bolvar is just a cool dude to begin with, Arthas was always an egomaniac douchebag.

Are you talking about the echoes in frostmourne, which are just that echoes, or has there been something new?

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Because Arthas was evil from the start.

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

[Deleted]

Ner'zhul s intention was to built an army to take revenge on the Legion for torturing and manipulating him.
That was his reason to make the whole world undead to be strong enough to take on the legion.

Now times changed, the people of Azeroth themselves are strong enough to do so and have the same intention in mind: Destroying the burning legion.

So there is just no reason for Ner'zhul anymore to fight against the people who fight against his enemy. In fact he now just has to use them.

Ner'zhul has never been an idiot he was allways cunning and planned way ahead. It is just logical for him not to weakon the forces of azeroth now when the Legion is approaching. So the better way to achieve his goals is to actually support them.

[purebalance]

Because they're different people.

Arthas also had his soul stolen by Frostmourne. I don't know how exactly that worked considering he then became the Lich King, but yeah.

I'd like a citation on this. If his soul was stolen it would have been inside of Frostmourne until it was destroyed which we know is not the case.