Any other MMO having a year+ long content drought would be considered "Dead"

[Queen of Hamsters]

Can't call that content tho, more like a thing people do when they're bored. Like collecting all battle pets, lvling 10 alts to 100, iron man challenge..
Whats up with people hoarding xmog gear and filling literally all their bags? Not like they will actually use all of it lol. Clear sign of nothing better to do.

Um...you can call it content, and it is...this might be news to you, but plenty of people do those things because they want to, not out of boredom...If I'm ever bored whilst playing wow, I don't go do shit in the game. I go do something else NOT related to wow in that case...

"Clear sign of nothing better to do"...Well that might just be the most arrogant bs today. You actually believe that you're some sort of authority on what is or isn't worth doing in a fucking mmorpg?
People do love and use transmog, people do enjoy pet battles, people do enjoy collecting in mmorpgs...YOU not liking any of that (what DO you like?) does not equal those things being insignificant for a fact.

[anaxie]

Well let's be honest, WoD didn't really have any other content besides the raids. 6.1 brought selfies and only thing in 6.2 besides HFC was Tanaan, which failed in imitating Timeless Isle.

PvP is different beast. It doesn't need new content per se, since the meat of the gameplay comes from playing againts other players, the arena could be a round flat room. Hell people still play Quake and de_dust is still the most popular map in CS.

It had plenty of World content. Players are just gready and raid quality gear is so easy to acquire the whole reward structure collapsed.

THAT is the issue

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Just for perspective:

HS gets updates several times per year. MOBAs get constant updates. If you are looking for something that is almost like WoW, look at GW2, they get constant updates as well.

That's what we expect in 2016, constant updates, *especially* for a game with a sub.

Yes, I get that HS is different from WoW. No, it is NOT harder to update WoW than HS. Updates with things like Isle of Thunder can be coming *constantly*. Updates with things on the level of new profession recipes / collectibles / new fish / new chests / new events based on instance X or zone Y / etc, etc, etc, etc, can be coming *weekly*, they can be coming so fast that people will object to that and beg Blizzard to slow down.

Blizzard aren't doing that for WoW, because, well, because they do things differently. Their different way of doing things is failing spectacularly.

And the WoW team is building a Giant fucking expansion. Do you have a point?

If you want GW2 content and updates play GW2.

[rda]

And the WoW team is building a Giant fucking expansion. Do you have a point?

I do.

They have already built one giant expansion with WoD. It was anything but giant.

And Legion looks about the same kind of giant.

[Lahis]

It had plenty of World content. Players are just gready and raid quality gear is so easy to acquire the whole reward structure collapsed.

THAT is the issue

Tanaan had jack shit interesting content. It was the same apexis dailes we had been doing for the whole expansion at that point, only with a new coat of paint. Oh, and you could now do them THREE (3) times per day instead of just one!

No matter how you spin it, Tanaan offered nothing new, interesting or challenging to do.

[anaxie]

Whether you do content because you are bored or because you enjoy it doesn't determine if it's content or not. What determines if something is content is if it is something you can do. That includes pet battles (however much people like to claim it isn't content) or collecting pets for achievements.

I can agree that repeating content or doing content differently (= leveling alts, clearing raids on several characters, iron man challenge) shouldn't count as content, though.

As for transmog, it's not content per se, but most people who actually do it a lot, do it because they thoroughly enjoy being able to produce different looks for their character.

sorry but no

I corrected it

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Tanaan had jack shit interesting content. It was the same apexis dailes we had been doing for the whole expansion at that point, only with a new coat of paint. Oh, and you could now do them THREE (3) times per day instead of just one!

No matter how you spin it, Tanaan offered nothing new, interesting or challenging to do.

Thank the reward structure. Apexis dallies were a coast of paint of DAILY QUESTS which people have been doing since 2007

It had reps, It added FUCKING TIMEWALKING

It added Mythic Dungeons

It added the event calendar.

Pretty much in short it added a lot of things and way too many gear avenues. People got raid gear without raiding. And no sorry if 5 man MYTHIC gear isn't enough for a non raider for world content. Gear on par with MYTHIC raid gear from a some point in that expansion. Who fucking cares.

People are obsessed with gear. when those same people will praise things like Reforgings removal <on average> It's not even power level people just want to watch character sheet numbers go up. NOT personal damage output. for most that would require learning and coming out from their safe space.

People sat in the same gear in TBC 5 mans - Kara and they didn't bitch or feel the need to have gear like people doing raids. And if they did they put in the effort it took to obtain it.

Also Lastly NEVER since TBC have I seen craftables this comparable to raid gear. And yet people still bitch about gear. omg dont have enough gear. his numbers are higher and I feel bad, Omg hes in my group and showing off and doing 5x everyones damage what an elitist prick.

Tall poppy syndrome. WoW is infested with it.

[rda]

sorry but no

I corrected it

"Game with content":

1 zone. 1,000,000 boars which keep respawning. The first quest in the quest chain: kill 1 boar. The second quest in the chain: kill 2 boars. .... The millionth quest: kill 1,000,000 boars.

Done. You are set for life. Such a great game with so much "content", let's all buy it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Whether you do content because you are bored or because you enjoy it doesn't determine if it's content or not. What determines if something is content is if it is something you can do that you haven't before. That includes pet battles (however much people like to claim it isn't content) or collecting pets for achievements.

I can agree that repeating content or doing content differently (= leveling alts, clearing raids on several characters, iron man challenge) shouldn't count as content, though.

As for transmog, it's not content per se, but most people who actually do it a lot, do it because they thoroughly enjoy being able to produce different looks for their character.

No, content is stuff you can do. Period. Not wanting to do it for whatever personal reason doesn't change that it's there for you. And always needing new content and no repetition...well, mmorpgs are not the right place for that mindset.

[Sencha]

Because those players have nothing else to do in their life.

[anaxie]

"Game with content":

1 zone. 1,000,000 boars which keep respawning. The first quest in the quest chain: kill 1 boar. The second quest in the chain: kill 2 boars. .... The millionth quest: kill 1,000,000 boars.

Done. You are set for life. Such a great game with so much "content", let's all buy it.

Do you have a point or are you projecting again.

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No, content is stuff you can do. Period. Not wanting to do it for whatever personal reason doesn't change that it's there for you. And always needing new content and no repetition...well, mmorpgs are not the right place for that mindset.

Fucking plebs dont get that. Only new stuff is content eh?

That mount run you just did or going to check BMAH or going to farm a piece of mog gear. Not content it's just nothing. Doing garrison chores because people need their Virtual gold for whatever sad reason. No content. just fucking wasting away when they could play other games. They obviously love chores. I don't

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Meh, Selfies aside, calling something "no content" because if "failed" is debatable, but let us not get into that. Tanaan tried to be a bigger TI or IoT - which I personally liked. But it is as it was in all x-pacs before. People pissed on TI when it was current, now they piss on Tanaan and cite TI as a great example...

Thing is....people keep unloading on the current game and claim how much was to do in older x-pacs...and I wonder. What did the non raiders do when Kara, SSC, TK, BT came out? What was so glorious to do in 9 months of BT if you didn't raid? What was there to do during Ulduar or ICC? If you ask me, Tanaan suddenly seems like a holy grail of content compared to the Argent Tournament. But I guess it was the additional 5 mans that people liked in the second half of WotLK when you didn't raid. What content besides raids was there in Dragon Soul? At least firelands came with the Molten Front (Now THAT I hated.)

So to me, WoW was mainly about adding raids and then throw a little bone at the non-raiders. I am more wondering about that fact that this system worked at all and kept so many people subbed and interested in the game. So maybe our "analysis" of the game what works and what doesn't is totally flawed. Maybe there are indeed only a handful people who can devour any content immediately because they play the hours and then there are the millions who only play an hour every 2 days and who never finish the content.

I am surprised at the amount of people that I still see riding and who have not unlocked flight.

ICC 5 man gear compared to ICC H gear

THEN comparing Mythic 5 man and craftables and garrison gear to HFC gear. The gap is smaller now.

The Old model wouldn't satisfy people. The problem is the structure is TOO rewarding now. People putting in minimal effort get gear too quickly. SO then they get all pissed off. It's plum fuck retarded.

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I do.

They have already built one giant expansion with WoD. It was anything but giant.

And Legion looks about the same kind of giant.

Then maybe you should quit playing the game. Addict

[rda]

Then maybe you should quit playing the game. Addict

Maybe you should read what others are writing instead of replying with nonsense non-sequiturs all the time. I quit and I said that. Mr great thinker

[Drukqs]

because WoW is old and nostalgia.People dont look at WoW as a game.its like their personality.they can play 50+ games but when it comes to WoW its not a game anymore.

[Deleted]

Which is a problem to community caused by clamoring HURRY UP HURRY UP. New expansions fasters!

Just so happens Legion is being produced at a breakneck pace considing the amount of overhauling and new systems being designed for it. Having to not make 1 new class but 12 and Three talent trees per SPEC. Not class SPEC

But then tell me a game that has a long history MMO devlopment and quality content like Blizzard.

Blizzard has always taken time to develop a quality product it's been like this since their last generation of games.

Well that can be solved easly if they was simply put 3 raid trs like every other expansion give them atleast 6 months more time atleast before ppl start to complaint.Otherwice why i not and will not touch another MMO is because my friends int this game and because that even blizz makes us to wait 1 year they will produce something with great quality after and yea even lack of fresh content do not mean that you have nothing to do in WoW

[anaxie]

because WoW is old and nostalgia.People dont look at WoW as a game.its like their personality.they can play 50+ games but when it comes to WoW its not a game anymore.

Some people have an unhealthy obsession WoW turned into their lifestyle vs game.

You know when you feel obligated to log in and do Garrison "chores" just for the gold on multiple characters but have no reason for the gold. Or do achievements you hate just to see the ping go off and counter go up. I don't know how doing things you obviously don't like is fun. ANd I'm quite happy to of kicked the game. Something I never thought would happen. The thought of going back and doing mundane thing or feeling obligated to log on disgusts me.

the worst kind of content example... WRATH

Do the same dungeon you have doing 50-60 times for a badge.... sometimes fun but more often then not just a chore to accomplish. To get gear, to help you raid

and revolving and revolving.

To me what little gratifcation there was in getting gear died with WoD with RNG overflow. Lets not even talk about 5 man gearing. Good fucking clusterfuck lord.

[Sliske]

Because WoW has such a huge volume of content most people never run out during the drought (whether or not they're interested in it all is a different story)

This was a legit argument in cata.

The problem is, we've had half a dozen content droughts since the end of WoTLK, meaning that content is all dried up.

Even people like myself, who doesn't give a shit about mounts or achievements, has 22,000 achievement points, most reps exalted and have all of the 'rare' mounts - invincible, mimirons head, onyxian drake, etc.

The vast stores of content that WoW once had, have been dried up for many players.

Then again, they could just make classes fun to play, and then we'd bang our heads against the same content for a year, like we did in 3.3, 4.3, 5.4.

This time around, classes are god awful to play - so no one wants to play more than a few times through the content.

[anaxie]

I disagree. Content for me equals things you can do that are provided by the game you are playing, that you haven't done before. Repeating content by leveling a new character is just that: repeating content you already cleared.

That said I enjoy repetition to some extent, but I don't think "you can do this all over again" counts as an argument.

CONTENT IS FUCKING CONTENT

It doesn't matter if it's new , old , or imaginary RP.

ITS CONTENT. you don't get to redefine the term based on how you feel.

[anaxie]

This was a legit argument in cata.

The problem is, we've had half a dozen content droughts since the end of WoTLK, meaning that content is all dried up.

Even people like myself, who doesn't give a shit about mounts or achievements, has 22,000 achievement points, most reps exalted and have all of the 'rare' mounts - invincible, mimirons head, onyxian drake, etc.

The vast stores of content that WoW once had, have been dried up for many players.

Then again, they could just make classes fun to play, and then we'd bang our heads against the same content for a year, like we did in 3.3, 4.3, 5.4.

This time around, classes are god awful to play - so no one wants to play more than a few times through the content.

Then accept that you have played the game too long and DO SOMETHING ELSE in spare time. Blizzard can not hope for their one product to consume every ounce of someones free time with new media while building new products.

[rda]

Right, then I suppose all the other MMOs who do thing "properly" are succeeding spectacularly? Is that were all the WoW players went after all? To Rift, GW, SW and Wildstar?

Lets all hope Blizzard sees the light and starts designing their game like other studios are doing it, because that works apparently very well.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW2 will actually outlive WoW, yes. Want to bet (eg, who will drop under 300k players first)?

But in general, no, MMOs aren't doing that - because nobody wants to do an MMO these days, WoW was too big too long and spoiled the niche to say it bluntly. Game companies are just doing other things - MOBAs, etc. And *these* they keep updated constantly. Not because it's somehow easier to keep them updated than MMOs, WoW's devs would cry bloody tears and resign if they had to deal with balance issues that MOBAs have, for example, but rather because we are in 2016.

Open your eyes.

Your position is that (a) WoW is the biggest MMO (with a sub, etc), so (b) Blizzard are doing it best. That's not the case. That's just a product of you reducing the comparison too much. There are plenty of games that do much better than WoW for any metric.

[anaxie]

Right, then I suppose all the other MMOs who do thing "properly" are succeeding spectacularly? Is that were all the WoW players went after all? To Rift, GW, SW and Wildstar?

Lets all hope Blizzard sees the light and starts designing their game like other studios are doing it, because that works apparently very well.

Rift used WoW as it's slogan

SwToR literally copy and pasted the old Wrath trees and NO MOD support and that fucking engine on launch and now is a SINGLE PLAYER focused MMO.

Wildstar just no.... Vanilla style grind quests that didnt hide the GRIND and that fucking clunky ass reticule combat,

Tera? Korean RNG grindfest

FF14 no comment don't play. But original was so fucking horrible they had to remake the entire game literally and say how sorry they were. SOUNDS like a good game. Can it do a DECADE though?

Age of Conan LOLNO

Secret World: God no

ESO: Elder Scrolls MMO thats not an Elder Scrolls Game. Worst concept ever.



I think what I'm getting at is WoW may of fumbled some reward systems.... and some permanently in my eyes with shit like mass RNG gear.

But their track record as a quality game is way fucking better.

I'll LIKELY 80% never play it again in any serious fashion however, As said the old hat of raiding not being appealing and the reward structure collapsing as it turned into Diablo is just cringe inducing.

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I wouldn't be surprised if GW2 will actually outlive WoW, yes. Want to bet (eg, who will drop under 300k players first)?

But in general, no, MMOs aren't doing that - because nobody wants to do an MMO these days, WoW was too big too long and spoiled the niche to say it bluntly. Game companies are just doing other things - MOBAs, etc. And *these* they keep updated constantly. Not because it's somehow easier to keep them updated than MMOs, WoW's devs would cry bloody tears and resign if they had to deal with balance issues that MOBAs have, for example, but rather because we are in 2016.

Open your eyes.

Your position is that (a) WoW is the biggest MMO (with a sub, etc), so (b) Blizzard are doing it best. That's not the case. That's just a product of you reducing the comparison too much. There are plenty of games that do much better than WoW for any metric.

The days of the Theme park "WoW MMO" are past it's heyday. it's so fucking old hat for many people who have raided in this Decade boom of MMOs that many who leave it are probably just done with the entire concept as a whole.

As for metrics PVP can be debatable.
I Enjoy WoWs traditional 4 BGS and Raids.

And WoW is Raiding. WoW DOES large scale raids better then their competitors.
Dungeons somewhat. Tier CMs will likely solidify this as a WoW win.

WoW is Raiding and it's strong cast of villans and heroes. Something no other brand can claim. No Villan sticks out the way WoW ones do unless they are someone like say Sarevok / Dagoth Ur. Games with strong narratives around them.

[Amerissis]

Any other MMO having a year+ long content drought would be considered "Dead"

That is simply not true. An MMO is considered dead if you don't hear a thing for a year, if there's no talk of new content, no communication from the creators, nothing.

Not bringing out content, but having an Alpha/beta of the expansion up, having a PTR with some new fixes, giving updates on the expansion, showing what will come, communicating over forums/twitter/etc., that's not dead.

[rda]

The days of the Theme park "WoW MMO" are past it's heyday. it's so fucking old hat for many people who have raided in this Decade boom of MMOs that many who leave it are probably just done with the entire concept as a whole.

Right and that happened because WoW was too fat for anyone to overthrow and at the same time too bad to spoil the genre for the players.

Theme park MMOs might easily return after WoW finally dies. Although there is no shortage of possibilities in other genres so theme parks might just die with WoW because everyone plays something else.

But the key is that it is WoW that devalued and killed it.