Wow, world harder and more challenging!

[Wolfrick]

The WORLD it self need to feel more challenging and Harder... let us feel in Danger when we move around in the world!


Let each and every mob have the possability to kill us just like in "Vanilla and BC" if you pulled more then 1, it was almost e certen death... it was so amazing since you really Feard those huge croweded bases you where suppose to go in.


You almost got Forced to find some one to group with, so that you felt more secure going in that huge crowed with mobs. (NOW DAYS YOU JUST RUN IN SOLO AND KILL EVERTHING IN 10 SECONDS)...... WHERE IS THE FUN IN THAT.....

it has nothing to do with content or if your game is good... if fighting mobs is a walk in a park... if you are a new player you dont feel challenged and you lost interest...


What do you guys think about his? I would love you hear your Ideas

[anaxie]

No more elites / player scaling / legacy player buff /Balance/ Revised class toolkits.

TBC and below was hard for reasons beyond players control. AKA vastly weaker abilities compared to today.

So yeah you can say HARDER content. and it can be.

When your leveling without full looms or the final raid tiers gear when it's not tuned for that.

Or trying to solo / large pull ELITE zones solo without a zerg group. AKA WoD content

[crazymack]

It has it upsides and downsides, I won't mind going back to that though.

[Deleted]

If they make it anything above trivial, people will leave. The majority of players is still in the casual camp and many seemingly don't want any challenge. Ghostcrawler recently said that back in MoP, when LFR still had some strategy necessary, people would wipe over and over before quitting. Blizzard doesn't want to lose that part of their player-base and they know hardcore players won't leave either.

[clevin]

I wouldn't do each and every mob, but yes, have them be a bit tougher. Mostly, though, add elites back in. The rock giant elites in the pre-cata version of Azshara made doing your class quests out there.... interesting. Same for some elites in Netherstorm, etc.

They could also add in yellow/orange/red quests. You could group for them or try to do them below the level they were intended for... or you could wait for them to be green.

[Shelly]

To fully go back to the days of vanilla, drinking and eating between each pack and accidental pulls being an immediate death sentence would be a huge mistake.

The big thing they should bring back though are stronghold areas filled with elites. I'm talking places like the mines leading to Deadmines, the Dark Iron Dwarves next to the bridge to the Arathi basin, the demonic area of Blasted Lands and the area around Blackrock Mountain.

The way gear now works these areas would be nerfed over time since gearing comes easier, but at the start of the expansion they'd be great places to have things like treasure chests or elites similar to the Tanaan elites only requiring a group of 3 to 5 people to get to in order get the best stuff.

I think they tried something similar with the daily areas in WoD, specifically the quarry outside of Blackrock Foundry, but I don't feel like they went far enough. There was nothing special to really bring you there once you'd done that daily. So that's the part I think they need to work on, basically make the group areas FAR FAR FAR more efficient than solo content for gearing up or gaining resources, the hard part though is those world areas would need to be balanced against dungeon content which is almost always the most efficient way to gear up.

For a return to classic/TBC questing though and all the frustrations therein, that would totally destroy the open world. Even the folks who only really want to quest to experience the story would just level up through dungeons instead, bypassing the pain in the ass of an open world that requires you spend longer watching your character recuperate from a fight than moving on too the next mob.

Instead they'd come back to a zone after they outgear it and then what's the point?

[Wolfrick]

No more elites / player scaling / legacy player buff /Balance/ Revised class toolkits.

TBC and below was hard for reasons beyond players control. AKA vastly weaker abilities compared to today.

So yeah you can say HARDER content. and it can be.

When your leveling without full looms or the final raid tiers gear when it's not tuned for that.

Or trying to solo / large pull ELITE zones solo without a zerg group. AKA WoD content

The mobs was harder because of the mobs more life and Stronger DPS, so you actualy had to focus, what is the point in playing a game if you can go around in "SUPERMAN Mode" pulling 4 mobs each time... that is not realistic, each mob should be hard and you should think twice befour pulling more.

I am leveling a level 10 hunter with only white gear and gray weapon, mobs die on to attacks... what is the fun in that... "in this way, the game becomes more of a Grind, then a challenging envirement"

ELITEs should always be group content, and thansk to the scaling techniques I think that in future the entire World of Warcraft will have Scaling envierment, so you never outlevel any leveling zones.

- - - Updated - - -

It has it upsides and downsides, I won't mind going back to that though.

It would feel like a Challeng not a Grind and that is awesome, so its good to hear you say that

- - - Updated - - -

If they make it anything above trivial, people will leave. The majority of players is still in the casual camp and many seemingly don't want any challenge. Ghostcrawler recently said that back in MoP, when LFR still had some strategy necessary, people would wipe over and over before quitting. Blizzard doesn't want to lose that part of their player-base and they know hardcore players won't leave either.

I think it is the Oposite... People are leaving because he game is to easy, I have tryed to make several friend join wow... but they get board... since there is not challenge and it just a continiu grind over and over... each and every mob feels the same... In vanilla and BC it was so much fun, since you had to use your brain to play the game... not be a Zombie...

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't do each and every mob, but yes, have them be a bit tougher. Mostly, though, add elites back in. The rock giant elites in the pre-cata version of Azshara made doing your class quests out there.... interesting. Same for some elites in Netherstorm, etc.

They could also add in yellow/orange/red quests. You could group for them or try to do them below the level they were intended for... or you could wait for them to be green.

I WOULD LOVE THAT... get some of the OLD Vanilla Vibe that made us fall in love with the world... Azshara was really scary... you never know when a mountain giant would pop up.

- - - Updated - - -

To fully go back to the days of vanilla, drinking and eating between each pack and accidental pulls being an immediate death sentence would be a huge mistake.

The big thing they should bring back though are stronghold areas filled with elites. I'm talking places like the mines leading to Deadmines, the Dark Iron Dwarves next to the bridge to the Arathi basin, the demonic area of Blasted Lands and the area around Blackrock Mountain.

The way gear now works these areas would be nerfed over time since gearing comes easier, but at the start of the expansion they'd be great places to have things like treasure chests or elites similar to the Tanaan elites only requiring a group of 3 to 5 people to get to in order get the best stuff.

I think they tried something similar with the daily areas in WoD, specifically the quarry outside of Blackrock Foundry, but I don't feel like they went far enough. There was nothing special to really bring you there once you'd done that daily. So that's the part I think they need to work on, basically make the group areas FAR FAR FAR more efficient than solo content for gearing up or gaining resources, the hard part though is those world areas would need to be balanced against dungeon content which is almost always the most efficient way to gear up.

For a return to classic/TBC questing though and all the frustrations therein, that would totally destroy the open world. Even the folks who only really want to quest to experience the story would just level up through dungeons instead, bypassing the pain in the ass of an open world that requires you spend longer watching your character recuperate from a fight than moving on too the next mob.

Instead they'd come back to a zone after they outgear it and then what's the point?

Mate, I have friends and people that I know, leaving since the world is not challenging... Blizzard try to appeal to everyone... but making the game on super easy mode... there is no challenge... and you just feel like a continue grind.... and all the mobs feel the same.

The World should be like a real world... you think twice befour you start a fight... since the out come can end badly.

[SirCowdog]

If you look at games like Wildstar that had an open world with dangerous enemies scattered around, the actual impact was inconsequential. You either force players to deal with extra hard enemies, in which case they give up and go to other games. Or you make harder enemies optional, in which case they get avoided entirely by most of the players.

I'm all for more challenging content, but the place for it really isn't in the open world. Challenge modes and raids, where everyone agrees to the difficulty they want to face is where it belongs.

[Derpling]

There is a fine line between challenging and tedious. Making something take effort is fine, but making it time consuming just for the sake of taking up lots of time doesn't make for compelling gameplay. A lot of vanilla, BC, and pretty much every MMO ever made falls into the latter category.

[bloodmoth13]

I wouldnt mind them retuning 1-100 and condensing it so that you only needed to complete 10-20 zones or so, make expansions entirely optional and parallel instead of sequential, then perhaps do a level squish. i mean, we go several levels without gaining anything these days so levels dont really mean much, they used to mean an upgraded ability/talent every level, now its just stats.

But those are some big ideas there.

Id be happy enough with tuning the game to be more rewarding but more difficult.

[anaxie]

If you look at games like Wildstar that had an open world with dangerous enemies scattered around, the actual impact was inconsequential. You either force players to deal with extra hard enemies, in which case they give up and go to other games. Or you make harder enemies optional, in which case they get avoided entirely by most of the players.

I'm all for more challenging content, but the place for it really isn't in the open world. Challenge modes and raids, where everyone agrees to the difficulty they want to face is where it belongs.

Wildstar was a grindfest with Vanilla WoW style quest design. It's a wonder it didn't work.

HAAAA

[SirCowdog]

Wildstar was a grindfest with Vanilla WoW style quest design. It's a wonder it didn't work.

HAAAA

I wasn't talking about the game as a whole, just the prime mobs(elites) scattered throughout the zones, and the group quests. And you're right, it didn't work well. Which was the point.

[anaxie]

The mobs was harder because of the mobs more life and Stronger DPS, so you actualy had to focus, what is the point in playing a game if you can go around in "SUPERMAN Mode" pulling 4 mobs each time... that is not realistic, each mob should be hard and you should think twice befour pulling more.

I am leveling a level 10 hunter with only white gear and gray weapon, mobs die on to attacks... what is the fun in that... "in this way, the game becomes more of a Grind, then a challenging envirement"

ELITEs should always be group content, and thansk to the scaling techniques I think that in future the entire World of Warcraft will have Scaling envierment, so you never outlevel any leveling zones.

- - - Updated - - -



It would feel like a Challeng not a Grind and that is awesome, so its good to hear you say that

- - - Updated - - -




I think it is the Oposite... People are leaving because he game is to easy, I have tryed to make several friend join wow... but they get board... since there is not challenge and it just a continiu grind over and over... each and every mob feels the same... In vanilla and BC it was so much fun, since you had to use your brain to play the game... not be a Zombie...

- - - Updated - - -



I WOULD LOVE THAT... get some of the OLD Vanilla Vibe that made us fall in love with the world... Azshara was really scary... you never know when a mountain giant would pop up.

- - - Updated - - -



Mate, I have friends and people that I know, leaving since the world is not challenging... Blizzard try to appeal to everyone... but making the game on super easy mode... there is no challenge... and you just feel like a continue grind.... and all the mobs feel the same.

The World should be like a real world... you think twice befour you start a fight... since the out come can end badly.

No challenge. in world?

take off your fucking heirlooms and raid gear the content isnt designed around.

Oh and lets go back to OLD content with the TOOLKITS classes had at those time periods.

You know why your fucking white gear kills stuff.
CLASS OVERHAULS AND TUNING

ALSO you do know about LEGACY Damage. AKA you take less and do more damage to stuff you are leveled above right?

[MyndZero]

When your leveling without full looms

Dude, people do the ironman challenges and are in full shitty grey gear way under their level, and kill stuff quicker than what you did back in Vanilla. That's a legitimately problem, this game has gone way down the shitty casual drain. This is why LFR exists, because blizzard are so scared to make the world hard and lose players, rather than make it harder, and subsequent group content harder and actually teach the player.

[anaxie]

Dude, people do the ironman challenges and are in full shitty grey gear way under their level, and kill stuff quicker than what you did back in Vanilla. That's a legitimately problem, this game has gone way down the shitty casual drain. This is why LFR exists, because blizzard are so scared to make the world hard and lose players, rather than make it harder, and subsequent group content harder and actually teach the player.

BECAUSE CLASS OVERHAULS AND TUNING.

Do that shit before 3.0

Oh fuck u dead

What do you do? cut out fundamental class kits that actually make them function now? You understand that is the problem don't you.

Also Ironman is a fucking joke with the Legacy buff in place so that can fuck right off.

Oh no! better idea lets devote resources to RETUNE a decade worth of content EVERY TIME classes get overhauled.

You want your "HAARD" group content? Go do Apexis zones at expansion launch without a Full group or zerg raid. Go do Tanann stuff in without a group.

Welcome to Pre Wrath

[Deleted]

Outside of densely packed mobs in westfall I never found the world challenging ever...

I don't know what you would go back too..

[Deleted]

The mobs was harder because of the mobs more life and Stronger DPS, so you actualy had to focus, what is the point in playing a game if you can go around in "SUPERMAN Mode" pulling 4 mobs each time... that is not realistic, each mob should be hard and you should think twice befour pulling more.

I am leveling a level 10 hunter with only white gear and gray weapon, mobs die on to attacks... what is the fun in that... "in this way, the game becomes more of a Grind, then a challenging envirement"

ELITEs should always be group content, and thansk to the scaling techniques I think that in future the entire World of Warcraft will have Scaling envierment, so you never outlevel any leveling zones.

- - - Updated - - -



It would feel like a Challeng not a Grind and that is awesome, so its good to hear you say that

- - - Updated - - -




I think it is the Oposite... People are leaving because he game is to easy, I have tryed to make several friend join wow... but they get board... since there is not challenge and it just a continiu grind over and over... each and every mob feels the same... In vanilla and BC it was so much fun, since you had to use your brain to play the game... not be a Zombie...

- - - Updated - - -



I WOULD LOVE THAT... get some of the OLD Vanilla Vibe that made us fall in love with the world... Azshara was really scary... you never know when a mountain giant would pop up.

- - - Updated - - -



Mate, I have friends and people that I know, leaving since the world is not challenging... Blizzard try to appeal to everyone... but making the game on super easy mode... there is no challenge... and you just feel like a continue grind.... and all the mobs feel the same.

The World should be like a real world... you think twice befour you start a fight... since the out come can end badly.

Have you tried playing Wildstar OP? That is essentially what you are asking for, especially the latter zones I forget the names but with blight everywhere. If you were alone it was hard pulling more than 1 mob meant you died or almost. It wasn't fun. Challenge is important for the game no argument here but the outside world and questing experience is the wrong place. As someone else has mentioned Raids, Challenge Mode and high end PvP is where you should look for that.

Another question do you play alts? I have close to 13 100s and I would not ever do that if the leveling experience would be "hard". Alot more people would quit because that is what they do in the down time, play and raid/PvP on their alts. You say your friends this the WoW is "too easy" so they get bored, have they tried mythic raids pre-Ring nonsense? Or just cashing in on easy loot with the ring?

[Galathir]

WHERE IS THE FUN IN THAT.....FOR ME

Corrected.

Put out hard content that everyone has to pass while leveling and you shut people out.
The game is too easy for you? Pull more. Restrict yourself to not using certain abilities and/or low gear.
Or don't search hard content in leveling but instead where it already exists: end game raiding.

As soon as you put out hard content that people are forced to play, those who are not high skilled or play on their 12th alt, but who are really new to the game and still trying to figure it out, will hit a brick wall, get frustrated and leave. And that is not a good thing.

Your experience on a lvl 10 hunter does not really matter a lot because at this level you are still pretty much in "Tutorial mode".

And lastly: I certainly don't want leveling to take even longer than it does now.

[Queen of Hamsters]

If you want challenge, seek it out where it's meant to be and very much present. People asking for challenge in leveling are actually asking for "challenge" that they can overcome...you know, since questing mobs never offered mechanically complex AI and the perceived challenge came from snotty tuning and players being new and bad back in classic.

I'd be fine with them allowing us to quest in areas several levels above the character's current level though. Not because I'm bad and would be dying, but because it could warrant extra xp rewards and such.

[Orangetai420]

This is quite possibly, the worst aspect of WoW currently. The game is waaaaaaay too easy until high level raiding/pvp. It removes any sense of accomplishment and wonder while leveling. It also breeds bad players, and even worse arrogant players - some players stomp through the game and think they are hot shit but truth is, blizz has never given them an accessible challenge. Their entire experience has been them rocking the game, players never get put in their place anymore. What happened to the days when you had to strategically plan your pulls? When did that get declared "unfun"? There should be an acceptable challenge at every stage of the game. We shouldn't have to slog through 100 levels and gear up just to find a challenge.

Often times I can't pull enough mobs to challenge myself before the first few die or leash. You are forced to start removing gear and ignoring heirlooms to even get a sense of a dangerous world and that's not fun. Part of an RPG is building your strength but you can't get that felling if you start out in god mode and you shouldn't be punished by having to ignore the gear element either.