Wow: Chronicle vo. 1

[Tems]

I just got the World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, and I have to say I'm quite happy with it. It reveals a lot of details and puts it in stone regarding life before Azeroth and the early days of Azeroth itself.

I know this most likely should be in the lore section, but I posted it here because it tells a lot about Odyn and the halls of valor, our upcoming class hall, how he came to be and how he made the Halls of Valor. This just provides a certain insight to the whole warriors->Vrykul connection that was being shoved down our throats in Legion.

Some people might see things differently as it is very subjective and everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but I feel more connected to the whole warriors theme in Legion after that read, so I would recommend it to anyone here.

[Exotath]

Awesome, can't wait for my copy to arrive from Amazon.

[Archimtiros]

I'm just wondering how long it'll be before it's considered non-cannon like the WoW RPG books.

[jcf190]

I'm just wondering how long it'll be before it's considered non-cannon like the WoW RPG books.

The RPG books were written to flesh out the tabletop game. The chronicles are all canon. There's a forward by Metzen and several of the writers for the Warcraft novels discussing this and the continuation of the chronicles series.

[Caargon]

it tells a lot about Odyn and the halls of valor, our upcoming class hall, how he came to be and how he made the Halls of Valor. This just provides a certain insight to the whole warriors->Vrykul connection that was being shoved down our throats in Legion.

Can you elaborate?

[Archimtiros]

The RPG books were written to flesh out the tabletop game. The chronicles are all canon. There's a forward by Metzen and several of the writers for the Warcraft novels discussing this and the continuation of the chronicles series.

The same exact thing was said about the RPG books when they came out too. I'm not being dismissive, only pointing out that WoW-lore is so fluid that it's unlikely they won't contradict themselves at some point.

[Murlocbait]

The same exact thing was said about the RPG books when they came out too. I'm not being dismissive, only pointing out that WoW-lore is so fluid that it's unlikely they won't contradict themselves at some point.

I'm not sure they'll ever full on just eliminate them as canon. I imagine they'll have no problem with retconning things in future volumes, however, and stating that evolving lore in WoW > Chronicles (like how Star Wars had different layers of canon before Disney bought it). So anything in game > Chronicles, which > anything else (like HS or HotS, etc.). But it does feel like they are trying to establish a more solidified canon to build upon, which the game/setting desperately needs.

[Deleted]

The same exact thing was said about the RPG books when they came out too. I'm not being dismissive, only pointing out that WoW-lore is so fluid that it's unlikely they won't contradict themselves at some point.

All the novels are still canon and they release new ones regularly. Think it's fairer to compare the chronocle with those, rather then the RPG stuff, and some of those novels are 10+ years old now. Heck i'd go as far as to say the chronicle might have started out as a canon lore basis for the new authors to work from.

[Archimtiros]

I'm not sure they'll ever full on just eliminate them as canon. I imagine they'll have no problem with retconning things in future volumes, however, and stating that evolving lore in WoW > Chronicles (like how Star Wars had different layers of canon before Disney bought it). So anything in game > Chronicles, which > anything else (like HS or HotS, etc.). But it does feel like they are trying to establish a more solidified canon to build upon, which the game/setting desperately needs.

Funny enough, a lot of the WoW RPG information is still valid, the books themselves are just not cannon because other things have changed. Most of the conceptual content didn't change though.

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All the novels are still canon and they release new ones regularly. Think it's fairer to compare the chronocle with those, rather then the RPG stuff, and some of those novels are 10+ years old now. Heck i'd go as far as to say the chronicle might have started out as a canon lore basis for the new authors to work from.

The novels also contained a lot less information though, and honestly they do ignore a lot of the stuff the novels said to begin with. Novels are mostly story & character development, while the RPG books were more mechanical in nature.

[Katie45]

Chris metzen is one of the writers I doubt they'll retcon his own writing anytime soon

[Archimtiros]

Chris metzen is one of the writers I doubt they'll retcon his own writing anytime soon

He also helped write the RPG books.

[Tems]

Can you elaborate?

I don't want to spoil, but in the second chapter it speaks about how Odyn came to be (him being the leader of the titan-forged) and after the battle with Galakrond and the other watchers disregarding his objections to give powers to the aspects, he went with his own plans to create powerful warriors from the vrykul and created the val'kyr(first of which was Helya, and she was turned by force) and ending with how he got locked up in the halls of valor by Helya and Loken and then she created Hellheim for the souls to go instead of Valhalla as it was sealed with odyn and his army inside by her, but her sense of revenge and anger turned it into a dark place.

[Mormolyce]

Chris metzen is one of the writers I doubt they'll retcon his own writing anytime soon

Didn't he also write most of the old Warcraft 2 era lore? Nobody's immune to retcons :P

Probably not for years though. This new lore is much neater than the old mess.

[Deleted]

The novels also contained a lot less information though, and honestly they do ignore a lot of the stuff the novels said to begin with. Novels are mostly story & character development, while the RPG books were more mechanical in nature.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. The novels are the true lore afaik and mechanics have nothing to do with lore.

e.g. lorewise the novel arthas is what happened, not wacraft 3 events.

[Archimtiros]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. The novels are the true lore afaik and mechanics have nothing to do with lore.

e.g. lorewise the novel arthas is what happened, not wacraft 3 events.

Actually that's an example of retconning.

The point was that the RPG books don't do much character development, they center on the how and why of things. That's mechanics, and they very much do have an impact on lore.

[Deleted]

Actually that's an example of retconning.

The point was that the RPG books don't do much character development, they center on the how and why of things. That's mechanics, and they very much do have an impact on lore.

It's not a retcon if it's telling how the story would have happened without player agency and gamey objectives. Perhaps arthas novel was a bad example because it was released so long after the game and it's not a novel meant to directly match a game like some of the novels are. But if for sake or argument the culling of stratholme was released in war3, wow and novel at the same time, i'd side with the novel for lore.


Perhaps you should use a example regarding the mechanics affecting lore. The first thing that comes to my mind is that humans, orcs and tauren aren't equally physically strong in lore, regardless of mechanics which say they are equal in wow, not equal in war3 and all over the place in hearthstone.
Perhaps you mean that if a new thing has to be made for gameplay reasons, then new lore can be made to match it?

[Archimtiros]

It's not a retcon if it's telling how the story would have happened without player agency and gamey objectives. Perhaps arthas novel was a bad example because it was released so long after the game and it's not a novel meant to directly match a game like some of the novels are. But if for sake or argument the culling of stratholme was released in war3, wow and novel at the same time, i'd side with the novel for lore.


Perhaps you should use a example regarding the mechanics affecting lore. The first thing that comes to my mind is that humans, orcs and tauren aren't equally physically strong in lore, regardless of mechanics which say they are equal in wow, not equal in war3 and all over the place in hearthstone.
Perhaps you mean that if a new thing has to be made for gameplay reasons, then new lore can be made to match it?

If they were released at the same time yes, perhaps, but they were not, therefore it's considered a retcon, though in this case none of the events are major enough to matter.

When I speak of mechanics I'm talking about how things work, descriptions for things that aren't explained in game, due to lack of gameplay value. There are actually quite extensive essays on the nature of magic, which is quite enlightening, given how little explanation the game actually gives. A recent example came up in another thread just the other day:

Interesting idea there. I've never really looked into it, but I wonder if weapons like Ashkandi are lighter due to the difference in how they're made and what they're made of. As I said I haven't really looked into it, but for all I know steel could be heavier than elementium/enchanted elementium. I wonder if this is the case for the unpractical weapons.

Game answer: No, because weight has no gameplay value, there's no need for them to be.

Fantasy answer: Possibly. Though the game doesn't need to go through the trouble of making the distinction, the WoW-RPG books (which although no longer cannon, are the only relevant source material) do note distinctions between hardiness, thickness and weight of different crafting materials. For example, Thorium is noted to be much denser than steel and roughly twice the weight, while Elementium is even heavier still.

While the books are no longer cannon, it's fairly easy to distinguish between what is no longer relevant, specifically things that have been recannonized due to game progression or those which were altered to fit the tabletop setting, but the books are still the only source of information for a lot of material.

My point is that they continue to provide a lot of insight into the game world, like anything it just requires you to be smart about how you apply the information.

[Taium]

I may be alone in this, but Chronicle made me even more disgusted with the idea of being Odyn's patsy.

The future aspects work with Tyr, the only Keeper not apathetic to a freaking UNDEAD MONSTROSITY, and afterwards every other Keeper realizes how much they screwed up and decide to reward those who did THEIR job. Except Odyn. Nooooooo...... he's gotta be completely against it, and come up with his own plan involving making MORE undead to form his own army. Then when the other Keepers are against it he takes off with his surrogate daughter and a wing of Ulduar and then raises said surrogate daughter as the first Val'kyr against her will after she helped him cuz his plan won't work without Val'kyr. And this is the guy all warriors are gonna rally to?

[Archimtiros]

I may be alone in this, but Chronicle made me even more disgusted with the idea of being Odyn's patsy.

The future aspects work with Tyr, the only Keeper not apathetic to a freaking UNDEAD MONSTROSITY, and afterwards every other Keeper realizes how much they screwed up and decide to reward those who did THEIR job. Except Odyn. Nooooooo...... he's gotta be completely against it, and come up with his own plan involving making MORE undead to form his own army. Then when the other Keepers are against it he takes off with his surrogate daughter and a wing of Ulduar and then raises said surrogate daughter as the first Val'kyr against her will after she helped him cuz his plan won't work without Val'kyr. And this is the guy all warriors are gonna rally to?

Pushing the Warrior motif with all the "I'm going to build an army" rhetoric. They're just trying too hard.