Guild Rogue Needing help

[Supershiggz]

Hello all you night stalkers!


I am asking for help from the rogue community first time ever posting in the rogue section !
We are a 12/13 Mythic guild who recently got one of our healers to swap to her rogue because recruiting a rogue is harder then finding them in PVP :P


After 3-4 Weeks we are still not seeing a huge up in her DPS i will link her Armory + logs and hopefully you guys can give us some insight on where she is going wrong roation or gearing wise

We have tried our best to dissect her logs but with having 0 people who have mained a rogue in our guild we know its not the best advice !

Thank you all a TON in advance your time and feed back is appreciated!

her Armory
us.battle.net /wow/en/character /malganis/Syael/simple

Her logs
warcraftlogs. com/rankings/character/405917/latest/#boss=0

Please let me know if you guys need anymore information then that !
Like iv stated we are no rogue experts but have tried our best to go through them and see where we can improve

Sorry wont let me post links

Here is her Btag as well if any of you feel you want to be super awesome and reach out to her specifically
Daniika#1445

[Grymmy]

Heyo, sent your rogue a friend request on Bnet, make sure they accept someone named "Grimmy" so I can help!

[elfporn]

The first and most crucial thing is to perfect the opening sequence.

She should have a vanish-->rupture macro setup (keep in min rupture won't apply if the gcd is on cooldown)
And a Shadow Reflection-->shadow dance macro.

Beginning the fight, the simplest thing to do is premed at less than 10sec on pulltimer, snd@2sec, pot@1sec, then vanish->rupture macro, then SD/SR macro.
And proceed to spam ambush.

Refresh rupture at 7sec (during SD), evisc, then ambush until soulcap ends, and dump CP into evisc for ring.

At this point, if you get a double proc for soulcap, keep on going as normal.

After CP dump, do a fast refresh on SnD, prep, vanish, spam ambush, refresh rupture.

And that's the first 20 seconds.

Generally you can get 6 ambushes(7 with arcane torrent, as belf), a rupture, and an evisc in that first soulcap. Fitting whatever you can into the ring afterward. (i do 2xevisc)

An easy way to utilize your cd's throughout the fight is to just use vanish and dance at the same time every time, and always on cd, preferably lined up with ring use. Pool energy before cd use if possible; you can just slow down your rotation before they come up as long as you don't energy cap.

The opener is the most important part of the fight for sub, perfect it and your dps will get a lot better. Note that there are different ways to do the opener and try to squeeze more out. Probably the most common you may run across is doing a 25sec timer and 2 premeds for a longer SnD. You can also do an SnD snapshot build, though it's too much effort for too little gained.

One more thing - the ring is the weak link, get that maxxed asap.

edit: i only glanced at a couple fights to see what was being used in first 20sec. Your opening soulcap should be over 2mil atleast. I am always over 5mil....get that ring maxxed!

Lanre<Discord>

Elfpron#1313 if you have questions, i'm usually on tues/wed

[precious]

The first and most crucial thing is to perfect the opening sequence.

She should have a vanish-->rupture macro setup (keep in min rupture won't apply if the gcd is on cooldown)
And a Shadow Reflection-->shadow dance macro.

Beginning the fight, the simplest thing to do is premed at less than 10sec on pulltimer, snd@2sec, pot@1sec, then vanish->rupture macro, then SD/SR macro.
And proceed to spam ambush.

Refresh rupture at 7sec (during SD), evisc, then ambush until soulcap ends, and dump CP into evisc for ring.

At this point, if you get a double proc for soulcap, keep on going as normal.

After CP dump, do a fast refresh on SnD, prep, vanish, spam ambush, refresh rupture.

And that's the first 20 seconds.

Generally you can get 6 ambushes(7 with arcane torrent, as belf), a rupture, and an evisc in that first soulcap. Fitting whatever you can into the ring afterward. (i do 2xevisc)

An easy way to utilize your cd's throughout the fight is to just use vanish and dance at the same time every time, and always on cd, preferably lined up with ring use. Pool energy before cd use if possible; you can just slow down your rotation before they come up as long as you don't energy cap.

The opener is the most important part of the fight for sub, perfect it and your dps will get a lot better. Note that there are different ways to do the opener and try to squeeze more out. Probably the most common you may run across is doing a 25sec timer and 2 premeds for a longer SnD. You can also do an SnD snapshot build, though it's too much effort for too little gained.

One more thing - the ring is the weak link, get that maxxed asap.

Lanre<Discord>

Elfpron#1313 if you have questions, i'm usually on tues/wed

You sr first and then rupture in the opener, and always rupture again before sr ends nomatter how much sec left in the old one.

[KiwifruitOCE]

You sr first and then rupture in the opener, and always rupture again before sr ends nomatter how much sec left in the old one.

With mythic archi trinket a SF ambush is worth 8~ SF rupture ticks, ignoring crits/multis. Given that, if getting two ruptures in a SF gives you less than 8 additional ticks (I think the last time I checked it was 7 extra ticks from reapplying rupture) and you have to give up an ambush inside your SF window to cast that rupture, seems to me that you don't have to reflection before you use rupture, just make sure that you rupture before the reflection window is over, which is easy at these levels of multistrike.

None of this is relevant to the OP though, who doesn't have the mythic archimonde trinket.

[elfporn]

You sr first and then rupture in the opener, and always rupture again before sr ends nomatter how much sec left in the old one.

I went and double checked my macros, i have SR build into the vanish macro, and SD is on it's own, used separately.

Should also be noted that the optimal opener is done with the ring or ring/lust used immediately on pull.

[Evolixe]

Not to be rude, but she should probably first and foremost start using her GCD.. on GCD.

00:00:01.537 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver 44420
+3.484
00:00:05.021 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver (A: 85262)
+2.020
00:00:07.041 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver (A: 110090)

Rogues have a 1 second GCD. There is literally no reason it should take her 3,5 seconds to use her second ability.

After that, you can look at the order of abilities and how to apply the priority system. Which for Sub can be quite challenging to players unfamiliar with the class.


That'll take a long time so I'll give the honors to the other people around here. I can tell you though that 3x Ambush without a bleed is no bueno.

[elfporn]

Not to be rude, but she should probably first and foremost start using her GCD.. on GCD.

00:00:01.537 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver 44420
+3.484
00:00:05.021 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver (A: 85262)
+2.020
00:00:07.041 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver (A: 110090)

Rogues have a 1 second GCD. There is literally no reason it should take her 3,5 seconds to use her second ability.

After that, you can look at the order of abilities and how to apply the priority system. Which for Sub can be quite challenging to players unfamiliar with the class.


That'll take a long time so I'll give the honors to the other people around here. I can tell you though that 3x Ambush without a bleed is no bueno.

quite right, it all starts somewhere, but she needs to start right.

The icy veins guide is good enough for the more basic elements if she needs to go that far.

[maddnesskhaz]

First and foremost; send her to read Rylix's Sub Guide and spend some time on a target dummy.

I assume given you're deep in to Mythic that your players are at least semi-motivated to improve their performance, and moving from DPS <=> Healing is quite a different playstyle, so some time invested on understanding the guide Rylix put together and executing the opener reliably is well worth it.

As mentioned above, sitting on GCD's in the opener and not having Rupture rolling is a big no-no.

Generally; priorities are: SnD Uptime > Rupture Uptime > Fitting maximum Ambush casts in to any stealth / vanish / dance window.

Sub does have elements of pooling so you wouldn't expect to fill every GCD, but in Dance windows you're not pooling at all (aside from timing your final Ambush for maximum Find Weakness uptime).

[Grymmy]

Generally; priorities are: SnD Uptime > Rupture Uptime > Fitting maximum Ambush casts in to any stealth / vanish / dance window.

Wouldn't Rupture be more important than SnD uptime? They're both very important and should be kept up as much as you can, but let's say there's an unfortunate scenario where Rupture is falling off and SnD is falling off, SnD is maybe a 50% attack speed boost? That's more dependant on your mastery (mine is horrible, sitting at 593 unbuffed) I guess, but would that end up outweighing not only the damage that Rupture does, but the 30% damage you get on all your other sources from it being up. Not to mention, SnD doesn't have as big a penalty of using it at low CP in an emergancy situation then Rupture does, with it doing damage based on CP and having a shorter duration per CP (5CP Rupture is same duration as 3CP SnD)

Again, not entirely sure if that's the case so more of a question myself, and I'm nowhere near being a massive theorycrafter or anything like that to get into the nit-picky details of these things, have a nice day

[Evolixe]

SnD does more damage than Rupture, its kinda that simple

[elfporn]

SnD does more damage than Rupture, its kinda that simple

yep, SnD has energy generation wrapped into it too. It's scalar via mastery, which increases its value further. So in a nutshell, what he said^

In your example grymmy, use hemo to maintain the buff if necessary. it's also useful to occasionally use hemo where you'd rather fit one last evisc into a soulcapped FW window instead of rupturing. Remember though, hemo is lower DpE than rupture, by far, and a dps loss in general.

[maddnesskhaz]

Wouldn't Rupture be more important than SnD uptime? They're both very important and should be kept up as much as you can, but let's say there's an unfortunate scenario where Rupture is falling off and SnD is falling off, SnD is maybe a 50% attack speed boost? That's more dependant on your mastery (mine is horrible, sitting at 593 unbuffed) I guess, but would that end up outweighing not only the damage that Rupture does, but the 30% damage you get on all your other sources from it being up. Not to mention, SnD doesn't have as big a penalty of using it at low CP in an emergancy situation then Rupture does, with it doing damage based on CP and having a shorter duration per CP (5CP Rupture is same duration as 3CP SnD)

Again, not entirely sure if that's the case so more of a question myself, and I'm nowhere near being a massive theorycrafter or anything like that to get into the nit-picky details of these things, have a nice day

SnD also regens energy don't forget, not 'just' auto-attack speed.

[Grymmy]

Forgot about that! That makes sense that it takes priority over Rupture, thanks.

[Syael]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. Sorry I haven't posted sooner, I'm the rogue he's posting about. Recently swapped from a healing priest to this rogue, so yeah, I need help. I'm in raid atm, but I'll look over these in a couple hours when I have a chance.

- - - Updated - - -

Not to be rude, but she should probably first and foremost start using her GCD.. on GCD.

00:00:01.537 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver 44420
+3.484
00:00:05.021 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver (A: 85262)
+2.020
00:00:07.041 Syael Ambush Iron Reaver (A: 110090)

Rogues have a 1 second GCD. There is literally no reason it should take her 3,5 seconds to use her second ability.

After that, you can look at the order of abilities and how to apply the priority system. Which for Sub can be quite challenging to players unfamiliar with the class.


That'll take a long time so I'll give the honors to the other people around here. I can tell you though that 3x Ambush without a bleed is no bueno.

I don't find that rude. I mean, that's kinda why my DPS lead made this post for me. Little things like that, which I'm probably oblivious to because I'm trying to learn a new class & rotation.

But you are right, I shouldn't be delaying as much as I am.

Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

First and foremost; send her to read Rylix's Sub Guide and spend some time on a target dummy.

I assume given you're deep in to Mythic that your players are at least semi-motivated to improve their performance, and moving from DPS <=> Healing is quite a different playstyle, so some time invested on understanding the guide Rylix put together and executing the opener reliably is well worth it.

As mentioned above, sitting on GCD's in the opener and not having Rupture rolling is a big no-no.

Generally; priorities are: SnD Uptime > Rupture Uptime > Fitting maximum Ambush casts in to any stealth / vanish / dance window.

Sub does have elements of pooling so you wouldn't expect to fill every GCD, but in Dance windows you're not pooling at all (aside from timing your final Ambush for maximum Find Weakness uptime).

I'll check the guide out, I've had problems practicing sub on a target dummy though, I might try a normal or heroic hfc and practice it there.

I'm guessing the sitting on GCD at the start thing comes from healing, since that's all I've ever played until I picked up this rogue a few weeks ago.

But it does need to be fixed

- - - Updated - - -

One thing I did want to clarify is the sub opener. Is it one macro or two? I've seen it both ways.

[elfporn]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. Sorry I haven't posted sooner, I'm the rogue he's posting about. Recently swapped from a healing priest to this rogue, so yeah, I need help. I'm in raid atm, but I'll look over these in a couple hours when I have a chance.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't find that rude. I mean, that's kinda why my DPS lead made this post for me. Little things like that, which I'm probably oblivious to because I'm trying to learn a new class & rotation.

But you are right, I shouldn't be delaying as much as I am.

Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -



I'll check the guide out, I've had problems practicing sub on a target dummy though, I might try a normal or heroic hfc and practice it there.

I'm guessing the sitting on GCD at the start thing comes from healing, since that's all I've ever played until I picked up this rogue a few weeks ago.

But it does need to be fixed

- - - Updated - - -

One thing I did want to clarify is the sub opener. Is it one macro or two? I've seen it both ways.

Yea rogue gameplay tends to lean towards spamming your keyboard a bit, though you can be deliberate and do 1 press each gcd(or almost each gcd) >.>

The sub opener can vary on macro, you'll want atleast one, but the principle is that you're using all your setup and cooldowns at 2, 1, 0. That's premed->snd, potion, dance, shadow reflection, vanish, rupture, ring (might be better to have someone else control), followed by ambush spam asap...And that's frenetic.

Start with the guide and come back with questions.

[Evolixe]

One thing I did want to clarify is the sub opener. Is it one macro or two? I've seen it both ways.

However many floats your boat. I personally prefer the flexibility of using 2 instead of 1.

[Deleted]

First thing you should do is unequip mirror and equip class trinket. If you dont have it then force your guild to do HC Archi until you get it.
Other than that read RylixTVs sub rogue guide to get some tips and tricks.

You have to get used to spamming buttons when you have cds up cause that is when you do damage, when you dont have cds you dont have to spam just dont cap energy and you're fine.

[DeadDream]

Hey guys, don't want to create new "what's wrong with my DPS" topic, so i'll just ask for help here, hopefully you'll be able to help me.

On lower gear levels (725-730) i was doing pretty good according to warcraftlogs (80+ percentile mostly) on my gear level. But now I'm 736 and I'm struggling on 55+.
Nothing changed in my rotation and ability usage, I'm just went down and I don't understand why ..

Can't post links so please remove spaces before ".com"

Yesterday logs - warcraftlogs. com/reports/bLD8NCTkcmyX6vrn
Today Socrethar log - warcraftlogs. com/reports/Tb34hHJvVtRafWq8

The only thing that I'm aware about = I can't squize 7 ambushes on opening burst despite being a blood elf. No idea why =\

[Evolixe]

You should be, are you using multiple eviscerates on the opener? You only have enough energy for 1.
Outside of that you can only use energy neutral abilities like 5CP Rupture and SnD.

The russian language in your log makes it a massive pain in the ass to read though, so I won't bother identifying the actual problem.