Proposed U.S. Beaufort Sea drilling leases infringe on Canada's sovereignty

[Belize]

Well in that case....

All your tim Horton belon to us.

I wish Texas had Tim Hortons...

[the game]

I wish Texas had Tim Hortons...

We have Tim Hortons in Ohio. Clearly we're the better state.

[Pangean]

If they're in body bags, who cares?

Nothing tried so far has silenced them what makes you think we have anything that can?

[the game]

Nothing tried so far has silenced them what makes you think we have anything that can?

all we have to do is break all of their brooms so they can't play curling anymore.

[Tennis]

Dear funny talking hat,


Don't make us get all 1812 on your ass again. We are not afraid to freedom and democracy your oil.

Love,
'murica

Canada won the war of 1812. In fact we just recently had a splendid celebration of it a couple years ago.

[Independent voter]

Canada won the war of 1812. In fact we just recently had a splendid celebration of it a couple years ago.

Canada wasn't a country in 1812.

[Tennis]

Canada wasn't a country in 1812.

Regardless, it's considered a victory for Canada.
We even have a chocolate brand named after the hero.

[Axphism]

all we have to do is break all of their brooms so they can't play curling anymore.

That's just not even funny to joke about... don't you dare...

[Independent voter]

Regardless, it's considered a victory for Canada.
We even have a chocolate brand named after the hero.

Nope, you're wrong

I was taught that it was basically a "draw", since at least officially (that is, by the terms of the treaty) everything was returned to its status before the war.

But if you take a close look at the whole American situation in the decades leading up to the war, and how the war was a key piece in CHANGING that situation (esp vis a vis the ability to sail and trade freely), you have to conclude that America ultimately gained a great deal of its main objective in the war. So even if I wouldn't necessarily say the U.S. "won" the war, the endeavor was in key respects a "success" (even when the successes were not always directly tied to victories in battle).

Some even think the U.S. lost because they believe that a central objective was to conquer the Canadian territories. Though this certainly played an important role, it was, in fact, NOT among the war's central causes, nor was it EVER among the official reasons given for going to war. So yes, they did fail to take Canada -- but is that "losing the war" if that's not what the war's PURPOSE was??

To get the right answer it's necessary to be clear about why the war was started/what the goals were.

As I hinted, much of the misunderstanding has to do with the notion that war must be about "taking territory" (or at least that this particular war was). By that measure NO ONE won the war, since at the war's end all territories were returned to whoever controlled them before the war.

But, in fact, gaining territory was NOT the objective of EITHER side!

More specifically, two major mistakes are often made here:

a) "the British were trying to retake their former American colonies (and failed)" No, that was NOT the British objective!

b) "a key American war-aim was to take Canada (perhaps annex it), and they were repelled" No. While there were those who desired this, this was NOT the reason for attacking the British in Canada and the government never stated any such thing

In other words, our Canadian friends are operating under the misapprehension that we declared war on THEM and/or on the British in order to annex Canada. But that simply is not the case.

---------------------

The main (and stated) objectives of the U.S. are listed below. Note that each of them was, in fact, accomplished, though not necessarily all because of the war itself!

1) impressment of U.S. sailors. This was actually settled before war, with Britain largely acquiescing (though with slow communication the Americans did not yet know this)

2) interference in American TRADE, and hence with American sovereignty/independence.

This was mainly the result of the wars between Britain and France (and Americans suffered at the hands of BOTH powers). Once that war ended, the British no longer interfered in the same way. Thus the American objective was achieved, though not necessarily by the war!!

3) "Indian question" -- in the Northwest frontier wars. the British supported the Indians

This was the main NATIONAL reason for invading the Canadian territories.

(Though some in the Western states certainly wanted to annex the Canadian colonies, this was NOT the formal reason for the invasion, and the U.S. government never pushed for it.) Note, that the U.S. was indeed successful in reaching this objective. After the war the British were never again involved in assisting Indians vs. the U.S.


Although Britain was NOT attempting to retake its former colonies, all three of these issues DO have to do with the exercise of American independence/sovereignty, which was being treated rather lightly by the European powers.

Thus it is understandable that Americans regarded this as a "second war of Independence" even if it was not that in the STRICT sense. And this overarching objective -- of asserting its own sovereignty in issues of territory ("Indian question") and trade, America WAS successful.

SOME of the American success was an INDIRECT result of the war. In particular, the cutting off of trade with England ended up strengthening U.S. independent manufacture ...leading to greater ECONOMIC independence.

Another indirect result -- the expansion of the American navy in order to conduct the war contributed in other ways to America's ability to assert its sovereignty. One prime example -- immediately after the War the U.S. Navy was able to fully and finally address the problem of the Barbary Pirates in the quick and very successful SECOND Barbary War (1815) . In short, by the end of 1815, and in part THROUGH the War of 1812, the U.S. finally DID accomplish the sort of freedom to sail the seas and trade as it wished -- something it had hoped to gain through the American Revolution but never quite achieved.

Further, after the War of 1812 the U.S. was bolder to proclaim (and act on) its refusal to allow ANY European interference in the Western Hemisphere (note esp. the Monroe Doctrine). Ironically, the Battle of New Orleans, fought AFTER the peace treaty was signed but before news got back to America, played an important part in increasing this American confidence and probably also in discouraging foreign intervention.
Source(s): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/l...

http://nvnv.essortment.com/warof_rmfy.htm
http://www.galafilm.com/1812/e/intro/index.html
http://www.galafilm.com/1812/e/backg..._amerlost.html
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncanson/military/1812.htm

[Axphism]

Some even think the U.S. lost because they believe that a central objective was to conquer the Canadian territories. Though this certainly played an important role, it was, in fact, NOT among the war's central causes, nor was it EVER among the official reasons given for going to war. So yes, they did fail to take Canada -- but is that "losing the war" if that's not what the war's PURPOSE was??

I'd make that claim after losing as well.

[Hooked]

Were gonna drill where we want and Canada is going to pay for it.

[Underverse]

Love the new avatar tennisace, I think it's fitting.

[Tierbook]

The War of 1812 is unique in America in so far as militarily we lost but politically we achieved all of our goals, those being the end of impressment and freer trade, as well as getting the UK to stop funding Indian raids.... I have never heard that taking over Canada was a major reason to start the war at best it was a side goal. Militarily it's a rather sad defeat up until you get to the battle of New Orleans were a couple rednecks and pirates teamed up to screw the red coats handily.

[Axphism]

The War of 1812 is unique in America in so far as militarily we lost but politically we achieved all of our goals, those being the end of impressment and freer trade, as well as getting the UK to stop funding Indian raids.... I have never heard that taking over Canada was a major reason to start the war at best it was a side goal. Militarily it's a rather sad defeat up until you get to the battle of New Orleans were a couple rednecks and pirates teamed up to screw the red coats handily.

Hehe, pirates. Anything involving pirates is awesome.

[Heladys]

Hats don't complain.

Shorts don't talk.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Lets settle this territory dispute the good ol' fashion way.

WAR!

Nah, lets be serious ...Obama just banned all US drilling with his powerful yet Unconstitutional pen stroke so Canada has nothing to worry about.

[Kellhound]

Lets settle this territory dispute the good ol' fashion way.

WAR!

Nah, lets be serious ...Obama just banned all US drilling with his powerful yet Unconstitutional pen stroke so Canada has nothing to worry about.

I think it is time the US just takes over Canada. I am tired of needing my passport to go to B.C.

[breadisfunny]

i agree this is an outrage that the u.s. has invaded canada. i mean tennisace lives there.

[Gheld]

Anyway like I said... Most of the proven oil in Canada is owned by the "Canadian subsidiaries" of foreign companies. So our sovereignty was whored out a long time ago. It's like that with a lot of other natural resources too... Oh and then real estate speculation by foreign owners is rampant in our major cities.

Harper was proposing a clamp down on some of that... But Trudeau picked shit like the TPP as carry-over ideas. As far as reigning in on foreign ownership of Canadian...well...Canada.... Yeah... haven't heard from him on that issue. I'm pretty sure SJW's are all for foreign interests working towards owning all of the housing and natural resources in Canada.

[Arewn]

Nope, you're wrong

Did you know history about the civil war taught in southern USA differs from what is taught about it in the northern USA?