[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Arthael]

Well if they are not going to make the damage buff last for 30s with Incarnation, then it is going to fall significantly behind Savage Roar.

Currently ranked:
(Pre-setbonus & no 100% Shred Crit)
1. Savage Roar + Jagged Wounds
2. Savage Roar + Elune's Guidance (- 5.8%)
3. Incarnation + Elune's Guidance (- 10.14%)
4. Incarnation + Jagged Wounds (- 13.49%)

(4p Set bonus + 100% Shred Crit
you'll get this due to +15% crit chance from artifact trait + 5% from raid, only needing 30% from gear, less if blood scent is taken)
1. Savage Roar + Elune's Guidance
2. Savage Roar + Jagged Wounds (- 1.8%)
3. Incarnation + Elune's Guidance (- 6.9%)
4. Incarnation + Jagged Wounds (- 14.1%)

IF the trait buff of 15% gets added to the entirety of Incarnation duration:
(Pre-setbonus & no 100% crit on Shred)
1. Savage Roar + Jagged Wounds
2. Savage Roar + Elune's Guidance (- 5.78%)
3. Incarnation + Elune's Guidance (- 5.87%)
4. Incarnation + Jagged Wounds (- 9.4%)

(Set bonus & 100% crit on Shred)
1. Incarnation + Elune's Guidance
2. Savage Roar + Elune's Guidance (- 1.4%)
3. Savage Roar + Jagged Wounds (- 4.99%)
4. Incarnation + Jagged Wounds (- 13.7%)

In other words, SR will be King of the Jungle if Incarnation does not extend the % dmg bonus to 30s.
If it does, then, they both will be within 1% of each other with set bonus.

As predicted, Jagged Wounds will fall behind once the 4p set bonus comes into play.

Finally, Elune's Guidance seems pretty strong since it is, in theory, giving you 2 free finishers every 45s.
It pairs well with Savage Roar since you can easily force a SR refresh with this as well as gives a smoother opener with SR up right off the bat and Rip up shortly.
EG > SR | Prowl > Rake > Shred > Rip | AF > FB
Basically you use your initial burst of 5 to pop SR, then get an improved rake in - if it crits and you have 5 CP, go Rip; if not Shred > Rip. Ashamane's Frenzy + remaining EG will give you enough for FB.

It also lets you use Bloodtalons efficiently, as SR/JW kinda forces you to take Moment of Clarity; SR/JW/BT is still unmanageable as it stands.

Bloodtalons will easily be the best T100 talent due to how strong it is and the legendary that is tied to it.

[huth]

Any specific reason they made that buff not snapshot?

Because that's the default state. It requires extra work to make it snapshot.

[Vanos27]

Sorry if there's an obvious place that talks about this but I couldn't find anything on it.

Do the Feral bleeds still snapshot like they used to in Legion?

[Deleted]

do not get your hopes up for feral in legion. it seems they put too much effort into the artifact forms than in actually adressing ferals gameplay problems or making the spec more fun to play.
I have been maining feral for a long time and to me it was one of the most disappointing classes in beta.

[Arthael]

Sorry if there's an obvious place that talks about this but I couldn't find anything on it.

Do the Feral bleeds still snapshot like they used to in Legion?

Yes, they do.

[RayenDark]

do not get your hopes up for feral in legion. it seems they put too much effort into the artifact forms than in actually adressing ferals gameplay problems or making the spec more fun to play.
I have been maining feral for a long time and to me it was one of the most disappointing classes in beta.

Meh to each their own. I've been maining feral for a long time and I'm having a blast in beta. The most disappointing class for me so far as been Rogue and BM Hunter.

[Lucrece]

They just need to buff feral aoe by making swipe not be replaced by Brutal Slash and making it spread Rake onto other targets or 100% crit for double damage so you can Thrash and then swipe for some aoe burst.

Then either nuke Svage Roar out of orbit or bring up the other talents up to par. I lvoe Sabertooth, it allows me to lay on more rips on other targets now that I don't need to worry about maintaining it on my priority target.

More importantly, it allows more frontloaded burst once Rip is running.

[Arthael]

Meh to each their own. I've been maining feral for a long time and I'm having a blast in beta. The most disappointing class for me so far as been Rogue and BM Hunter.

I see that the tooltip for Ferocious Bite does not include double the critical chance on bleeding targets; is that a tool-tip error or just how it will be for legion?

[RayenDark]

I see that the tooltip for Ferocious Bite does not include double the critical chance on bleeding targets; is that a tool-tip error or just how it will be for legion?

I'm going to write it up as a tool-tip error which there are a lot of in beta. I'll do some more testing after work tomorrow and get back to you.

It was still on the tool tip on build 7.0.3 Build 21287 and was only recently removed.

[Arthael]

I'm going to write it up as a tool-tip error which there are a lot of in beta. I'll do some more testing after work tomorrow and get back to you.

It was still on the tool tip on build 7.0.3 Build 21287 and was only recently removed.

Thanks. I hope it is a tool-tip error too.

[RayenDark]

Thanks. I hope it is a tool-tip error too.

Seems like a tool tip error. I don't recall seeing anything in the change logs. I want to do more testing but the world server is down.

[Deleted]

Tried feral yesterday on beta and i think the energy regen is slow as hell compared to rogues and thats why it feels clunky imo.

[Kraineth]

Tried feral yesterday on beta and i think the energy regen is slow as hell compared to rogues and thats why it feels clunky imo.

So you're saying the spec feels "clunky" because of the main thing that makes it separate from rogue specs. Which is the idea that pooling energy(without capping) instead of spamming to 0 as fast as possible it the best way to play.

Perhaps feral just isn't for you. I can say the same thing about plenty of specs.

[Menubrea]

So you're saying the spec feels "clunky" because of the main thing that makes it separate from rogue specs. Which is the idea that pooling energy(without capping) instead of spamming to 0 as fast as possible it the best way to play.

Perhaps feral just isn't for you. I can say the same thing about plenty of specs.

Right, Feral energy regeneration is slower, which makes us having to plan more carelly around our resources to not lose uptime. What benefit is this to the player though, other than a rather poor attempt at making us stand apart from Rogue's design philosphy? It just seems that it's slower because reasons, and not because it there's any interesting mechanics behind the decision.

[Lucrece]

So you're saying the spec feels "clunky" because of the main thing that makes it separate from rogue specs. Which is the idea that pooling energy(without capping) instead of spamming to 0 as fast as possible it the best way to play.

Perhaps feral just isn't for you. I can say the same thing about plenty of specs.

This has direct implications on PvP. Once your energy is spent on an attempt at burst, you're going to be gimped for a while if that burst doesn't kill the target.

Doesn't apply to rogues. Which is why they're flat out better in PvP (and PvE as well, since they can frontload damage much better and with more flexibility).

If you want to be different, and by different I mean gimped in comparison, you're free to stick to that opinion. But you don't get to tell people what classes they ought to play just because your vision of the spec doesn't agree with theirs.

[Moistie]

I really wish I liked Feral or Moonkin, because I enjoy Resto a lot and healing is my preferred role. I just can't get into the offspecs.

I'm not sure why Savage Roar was chosen versus another talent that increases the next bleed effect by x, or just a short cooldown physical damage ability. With maintaining bleeds and buffs on myself as feral, I start feeling like I'm dusting my house or something. Maintain everything is not my preferred playstyle... which is weird since I enjoy maintaining heal over time effects as resto.

I guess when I'm dps, I want to feel like the buttons I push are hurting my enemy whereas when I heal I feel rewarded for maintaining my allies' health. Savage Roar feels like if I screw up then it's this big to-do in order to get it going again. I don't really like the gameplay of it.

But then I've probably just said it... the playstyle is not for me - but I'm also not every person in the world, so obviously it is a good thing that there are varied specializations.

[Tidezen]

The sad part about it is there's a great, energetic spec IN there, but because of dps reasons you probably can't actually take it. Soul of the Forest, Sabertooth or Elune's Guidance in the next tier, and Moment of Clarity in the last one would make the spec very fluid with its resource usage. But unfortunately Savage Roar and Bloodtalons get in the way. Should have removed both of those from the game years ago.

[Tradu]

The sad part about it is there's a great, energetic spec IN there, but because of dps reasons you probably can't actually take it. Soul of the Forest, Sabertooth or Elune's Guidance in the next tier, and Moment of Clarity in the last one would make the spec very fluid with its resource usage. But unfortunately Savage Roar and Bloodtalons get in the way. Should have removed both of those from the game years ago.

"Fluid" meaning "braindead spamfest"(with that talent setup it's barely worth even putting up Rake depending on gear)? That's not what Feral is about or ever has been about. It has always been a slow-paced, pooling focused spec(especially compared to the other energy specs), and Blizzard shouldn't change that for people that already have lots of other fast paced energy specs to play.

[Lucrece]

"Fluid" meaning "braindead spamfest"(with that talent setup it's barely worth even putting up Rake depending on gear)? That's not what Feral is about or ever has been about. It has always been a slow-paced, pooling focused spec(especially compared to the other energy specs), and Blizzard shouldn't change that for people that already have lots of other fast paced energy specs to play.

Might as well erase all other talents then, if you're not bothering to make them competitive and SR+BT are must haves.

I mean, blood talons is RETARDED. You are wasting a global overhealing just to get a damage buff. Or wasting combo points on a shittier version of old Inquisition/Slice n' Dice to not be gimped out of 30% of your damage.

This is even worse in PvP where the whole pooling gimmick you love is useless. It's all about frontloading damage and time spent maintaining savage roar so your damage doesn't suck is time spent for your target recovering from your actually damaging finishers.

Feral is braindead anyways with the proper add on's and weak auras, as they do all the tracking and optimizing of bleed snapshots for you.

[Tidezen]

"Fluid" meaning "braindead spamfest"(with that talent setup it's barely worth even putting up Rake depending on gear)? That's not what Feral is about or ever has been about. It has always been a slow-paced, pooling focused spec(especially compared to the other energy specs), and Blizzard shouldn't change that for people that already have lots of other fast paced energy specs to play.

Lay off dude. I've been playing feral since late Vanilla, maining it since TBC. My two other main dps classes are warlock and shadow priest. So I'm VERY familiar with rotations that are heavily dot-based and can be on the strategic, complex side.

Feral has been this way for a long time, you're right. It's had problems since its inception almost. The main problem as I see it is that it plays like an affliction lock, which is basically the opposite of what you'd expect from a big wild cat. The ancient wizard slowing sapping your life-force, building up his power over time while you wither away--yeah that's a great playstyle, I LOVE that playstyle--on my affliction lock. And that's the problem with feral, it plays like a middle-aged guy filling out his taxes. It SHOULD be as in-your-face and dynamic as possible.

The big boon it had in recent expansions was when they made combo points self-based rather than target-based. That did help a ton with overall flow. Unfortunately it's still one of the biggest build-up specs around. Which wouldn't be SO bad of a deal for feral, except the game design has been moving away from Patchwerk-style fights since Vanilla. Specs that can frontload their damage on demand have been favored for a long time now.

On the bright side, specs that frontload damage don't have to be "braindead spammers" as you suggest. If Bloodtalons and Savage Roar were taken out, they could be replaced by something else. Some build-up is still fine, but the build-up needs to be done in the first few seconds of hitting a target, not a full combo cycle in.