Manno Mythic big problem - help please

[Deleted]

Hi there,

Our guild is currectly smashing heads at Manno. It is a typical "casual" guild with some old raiders, who just can't play that much now. Anyway we cleared Hfc up to Manno and there shit starts going serious. We did like 140 attempts so far, but most of them end in p1 (p2 if we're talking about "summoners" phase as phase :P).
We choosed 3tank 4heal strat with stacking up and teleporting after Felseeker. Our best try is I think 49%, but mostly we wipe in p1....
What problem I see so far?
-we got 3 doomlords in p1 but I think the dps on them is just low and they're dying seconds before 2nd mark cast.
-imps splash do a shitton of damage because people does not spread as they should
- Helstorm do a ton of damage
Mostly because that we 4heal this.

We dispell doomlord debuff like:
1st - instant
2nd - 3s before imps (that make the 3 target debuff jump on players a 2-3 sec before 2nd feelseeker and around 4-5s before helstorm so they can move (thats around 15s before debuff expire ))
3rd - instant
in case we 're in p2
4th- instant
5th - we get it I think 2-3 times ? so I don't remember

Also as it is in casual guild I can't have the same people every night so we swap 1-2 ppl mostly, but I think our comp is pretty solid for this fight anyway. Also i think some people don't know boss abilities as they should ...
At this point I don't know - should I rethink our strat ? swap to 3heal or deal with felseeker another way?
Our logs:
best attempt:
warcraftlogs.com/reports/k7DZjKfXd4c3mqTP#fight=24
last night:
warcraftlogs.com/reports/h6mt8dbcKyWZVHRr

[Adramelch]

Dispel all of them instantly except for the one in p2 (or p3 if you like) that lines up with imps/shadowforce and the likes. Imp splashing, much as you noticed, means that you need to spread better. Spreading within Mannoroth's hitbox is a good rule of thumb. Don't stack too tightly when Helstorm is about to start or someone will inevitably not pay attention and be hit by a shitton of them.

What you're doing with Felseeker is not wrong in premise, but you're going about it all wrong I feel. Felseeker only targets ranged/healers so there's no reason for your melee to do the teleporting thing and lose dps in the process.

Also, I'm not sure why your mages are playing Fire. I'm not an expert on mages, but if you have 2 warriors bladestorming the adds, then that defeats the purpose of having the mages playing fire I'd think. And even if you're still lacking damage on imps, I'd still feel that the warlock going demo is a better solution.

I don't know if you can pull it off, as your dps is not generally that high, but with current gear, it's easily doable to blow up Doom Lords 1+3 with the ring explosion and not have to deal with their Marks. That's crucial especially in the 3rd as you're either getting him during the transition which will inevitably mean that the Marks will overlap with Wrath and blow up the raid, or that you'll have to completely stop dps before the transition, deal with Marks and then transition (which is a valid tactic, but more tedious than it's worth).

[Deja Thoris]

I dunno, 4 healing because people stand in shit just sends the message that its kind of ok to stand in shit.

I healed a few attempts on progress because a healer was away and it was terrifying everytime the fel hellstorm came because people would drop really low. Then we told them to move and theres almost no damage....
This is a fight thats heavy on personal responsibility. Start preaching and enforcing that.

Ret pally, 29 attempts. Used his personal on a 30 second CD 8 times.
Syszax, used barkskin 3 times the whole night.
Shaman used sham rage and astral shift a total of 9 times the whole night.
This kind of stuff really isnt good enough.

Also, literally half of your raid NEVER pots. I know its a pain and you lose a lot of it but meh.


Anyway, you need certain benchmarks to reach and I see no reason why you can't kill the first doomlord with the ring before his cast goes off. I'd spend a few attempts trying if I were you.
This is a vid of our first kill. Messy etc and we're bad but it shows how the timings should work. https://youtu.be/FDi18qKFnVQ

[cFortyfive]

Also, I'm not sure why your mages are playing Fire. I'm not an expert on mages, but if you have 2 warriors bladestorming the adds, then that defeats the purpose of having the mages playing fire I'd think. And even if you're still lacking damage on imps, I'd still feel that the warlock going demo is a better solution.

Agree mages playing fire definitely is one of the reasons for that frankly horrible boss dps. You just can't work with 30k. In that longest pull a guild with that ilvl can just as well be already close to a kill and not linger around at over 40%. I am also not sold on your fourth healer - it doesn't look like he would prevent many deaths at the moment since the most common death as far as I can tell seems to be some oneshot from failed mechanics like mark eruption.
What also can help is just have maybe 1-2 players stand on the side you plan to teleport to. Can't really lose with that sometimes it baits a felseeker on the other side and worst case you have just freed some people to deal dps without the teleport hassle.

[Deleted]

Agree mages playing fire definitely is one of the reasons for that frankly horrible boss dps. You just can't work with 30k. In that longest pull a guild with that ilvl can just as well be already close to a kill and not linger around at over 40%. I am also not sold on your fourth healer - it doesn't look like he would prevent many deaths at the moment since the most common death as far as I can tell seems to be some oneshot from failed mechanics like mark eruption.
What also can help is just have maybe 1-2 players stand on the side you plan to teleport to. Can't really lose with that sometimes it baits a felseeker on the other side and worst case you have just freed some people to deal dps without the teleport hassle.

Well I've spoked with lock already to swap to demonology. I'll also talk with mages to swap for arcane or at least frost - didn't noticed that low boss damage already. Thank you for point that out.
I'll also swap one healer for dps.
We're using 3 tanks aswell - is this profitable for now or should i swap one tank for dps ?

[Adramelch]

Well I've spoked with lock already to swap to demonology. I'll also talk with mages to swap for arcane or at least frost - didn't noticed that low boss damage already. Thank you for point that out.
I'll also swap one healer for dps.
We're using 3 tanks aswell - is this profitable for now or should i swap one tank for dps ?

I probably would swap now that's early. If you learn with 3 tanks, then the swap will be more difficult.

[Styxxa]

Well I've spoked with lock already to swap to demonology.

The sole purpose of playing Demonology back in the day was to take care of the Imps. You already have 2 warriors doing a good job of that. I would recommend that the Lock stay Destruction because he can still help a lot with the Imps but won't be a total gimp on the other aspects of the encounter (Mannoroth, Doomlord and Infernal damage).

[Khebul]

I prefer to have ~4 people with good burst AoE DPS for the imps. The goal is consistency: melee DPS cannot deal with the imps if they get wrath, therefore it is good to have backup.

Quick glance through the logs show that you wipe almost 100% when your warrior gets the Wrath. Bring more people to DPS the imps, I say.

[Adramelch]

I prefer to have ~4 people with good burst AoE DPS for the imps. The goal is consistency: melee DPS cannot deal with the imps if they get wrath, therefore it is good to have backup.

Quick glance through the logs show that you wipe almost 100% when your warrior gets the Wrath. Bring more people to DPS the imps, I say.

Definitely. Only start worrying about boss damage once you've got to a point where you hardly ever wipe to imps.

[youngt913]

ask for the team id