are you into wpvp ?

[Queen of Hamsters]

My experience of WPVP has been as follows:

Scenario 1: One or a few more peeps pester a low level settlement as they kill low level players and the npcs needed for quests. Then, a group of the opposing faction forms, and they try to counter the other. Then, depending on the server, either side ends up vastly outnumbering the other, and the "event" dies down until it starts over again some other time. Or the first group is left to do as they please until they tire and move on because players of the opposing faction can't be arsed.

Scenario 2: One person making sure to have EVERY possible advantage over the one he's attacking, usually levels, comes out of nowhere and starts the process of being a douche. Saw these all the time while I was on a pvp server, and every task in the world became a "fast fast fast!!!" rather than "I'm enjoying myself here!" until I got to max level...

The only area that I ever saw proper WPVP at, was Halaa, because I organised a few events to farm tokens, and even then it was a matter of one side outnumbering the other. Flying or no flying, numbers decided the outcome.
Am I a fan of WPVP? Sure, when it's at its best it can be a lot of fun. But since it most of the time comes down to ganking which leads to the people failing starting to whine and blame their loss on flying or "poor class balance", the concept of WPVP can die in a fire for all I care. At least until Blizzard clearly states that "classes are not and will never be balanced with WPVP battles in mind, stop being bad!" and they just remove flight from PVP servers... Then I'll start feeling welcoming and open to WPVP again!

I'm looking forward to PVP in Legion, but WPVP doesn't factor into my excitement...

[Snegovik]

Interesting that you start with an ad-hominem to draw attention away from the fact that you refute nothing. And why would be base our information on the current xpac... when the next Xpac WILL NOT BE SIMILAR IN ANY WAY?



More ad-hominem. And what i said was i dont believe for a moment you're a gladiator. Im calling you a liar. Straight up. Moving on from that, though - you're basing all of this on how things are NOW. They will not be this way in Legion. AT ALL. That's confirmed FACT.



And this has nothing to do with the fact that tanks will have 3-5x the HP of a dps in PvE.



Math isn't your strong suit i see. Lets say a tank has 4 million HP (that number is not too far off from what we're seeing on Alpha for Mythic) and you have 1 million. The tank does 80% of your damage. In the time it takes you to do 1 million HP to him, he does 800,000 to you. You're almost dead, he's barely hurt. And this is with zero mitigation. ALL of his mitigation and self healing abilities will work in World PvP 100% as they do in PvE, so chances are high you will do almost nothing to him before he kills you. AND he has set bonuses, and trinkets, and probably legendary items to boot.



Currently, no, but LEGION WILL NOT BE LIKE THIS. What part of that cant you get through your pea-sized brain? Their abilities will not be tuned, in wPvP, with the Template. They will do full PvE damage, with full PvE enchants, Set bonuses (which do not exist on PvP gear at all) and trinkets (which do not exist as PvP gear at all).



Uh, no, not really, since all you're doing is endlessly referring to how things are NOW, and NOT referring to how WE KNOW FOR A FACT that they will work in Legion.



... you're forgetting the part where PvP gear in Legion DOES NOT HAVE SET BONUSES. Only PvE gear. There are no PvP trinkets.

So what you're telling me is you're going be a dragonslayer, because to get those things for World PvP - you're going to have raid Mythic and endlessly farm PvE mobs for legendary drops. Good luck. Dragonslayer.



We're all laughing at you, not with you. When you get your head out of the sand and realize that the way things currently are has absolutely no bearing on how World PvP will function in Legion, let us know. Until then, i'm done with you.

1) Because we are talking ability of a skilled PvPer to kill a Dragonslayer who thinks his PvE gear> PvP skill of a Glad player, and skills my friend determined by past or current performances. Maybe in PvE you guys can measure your skills by your future performance that did not happen yet, but not in PvP. Also I am taking Current and Past xpacs to establish a trend WoW followed, which will be a more accurate idea of balancing, then current Alpha where nothing is tuned, everything can be changed 100 times, and where specs are not even completed. I never said it will be the same, but it provides a good idea towards what direction it will be moving. For your little mind here are few example of educated prediction we can make based on current/prev xpac: Droods going to be a very mobile class, DKs are going to be tanky, rogues and mages going to have a high amount of control in PvP, Locks and Shadow will be doing well in RBGs as well as spread dmg, here is what I mean making prediction based on the current data, unlike you making up stuff seems to be out of thin air.
2) Only cuz you, my dragonslayer, couldn’t get glad in all of your WoW experience, it does not mean it is actually hard, others can get it pretty easy if you know how to play your spec as well as ur teammates. But here is armory link of one of my alts, you can see Glad achiv from last season. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Medyza/simple
3) As I said, your English is very poor, since you said a PVEr tank can deal 5x (or was it 4x) my dmg while having 5x my hp, do you know difference between “and” and “or”? If you don’t plz re-visit basic English grammar. Yes, tanks at end of the xpac probably WILL have 4x my hp, but they will NOT have 4x my hp AND deal 5x my dmg in pvp 1v1 situation.
4) Since ability to think is not your strong suit, I will simplify your math for you, those numbers are current alpha numbers, before any tuning was done, hence they do not matter (since they will change), blizzard stated that they soon will begin the tuning process, it is not even Beta yet, and you taking those numbers as a fact? No wonder you can’t get past 2k in rated pvp, your brain ability is equal to a chicken’s.
5) Not just currently, it was never possible in WoW’s history, not sure what makes you think that after more than a decade of WoW this will change. Please post me a link where blizzard actually states something like “A mythic PvE geared DPS will be able to deal 5x more dmg than same spec in Glad/R1 level gear” hmm… I am waiting? But to save ur chicken’s brain time, u wont find this link because it does not exist.
6) Fact? Oh do please enlighten me, post me an official blizzard’s post that supports ur statement that “pve geared tank will be dealing 5x more dmg AND have 4x more hp than a Glad/R1 geared PvPer” I do find it funny how you refer to pre-tuning phase in Alpha as fact…lol gotta love dragonslayers, u guys are like clowns, brings smiles to ppl’s faces, well done there ).
7) I referred not to your actual set bonus, but to combination of different stats/ sets/ trinkets, to simplify for your little brain so that you can understand lets call it 4 different outfits of gear, can ur chicken brain process now? Lets call set A) offensive, set B) defensive, Set C) Offensive + legendary item. I do hope you can keep up pve hero.
8) “we” u are saying that you have a split personality? Well that would explain a lot lol the fact that all ur arguments do not hold any actual ground. Kiddo you do need l2read English lol I never said current/past xpacs will have bearing on WPvP in Legion, but I did say it holds sound trait of what like balancing will look like in PvP. Funny, this is what all PVErs do when they encounter a pvper, run with their tail between their legs =) good talking to you chicken brains lol try not to hurt urself doing your PVE rotation on NPC that does not hit back.
P.S. I loved how you never commented on me pwning that lock 7 times (without even popping my major cds) who had 3x my hp, guess you have nothing to make up when topic relates to actual facts lol.

You never responded to my post that in WPvP, high skilled PvPers wont let you do your PVE rotation, it does not matter in PvP if your gear enables you to pull high numbers if you will be locked down and killed, since PVP>PvErs in PvP, always was and always will be this way, good gear does not mean much if you can not play your spec properly lol.

[Borgia]

I gank people on my server in timeless isle, the isle of giants, and all the quest zones of Draenor with my rogue. It is still fun except for getting shit on by really really bad players because they have mythic and legendary ring though. PvP gear needs to scale way higher.

[Snegovik]

I gank people on my server in timeless isle, the isle of giants, and all the quest zones of Draenor with my rogue. It is still fun except for getting shit on by really really bad players because they have mythic and legendary ring though. PvP gear needs to scale way higher.

Yep, the legendary rings are insanely good, that's why my main and 2 of my alts have legendary rings, all ugotta put is afk in LFR while watching a movie, but yes legendary items are must to have for Wpvp

[Faenskap]

No, I'm not.

When I'm out in the world, I'm there to do other objectives, such as quests in Tanaan. World PvP interferes with that. Then I'm also with my PvE gear (well, it's mostly PvP gear minus trinkets) which would put me at a disadvantage vs those with double PvP trinket/freedom trinket, as well as having different talents.

I can play both Horde and Alliance, and I don't at all get the "if it's red its dead" mentality. I play on a heavily Horde populated server, so chances of getting attacked are slim. Even when we're killing one of these big 4 Tanaan elites, and some lonely Alliance comes, I don't touch him, because I'm sure he just wants to do his PvP stuff too.

Probably many of the lvl 100 world PvPers are full of optimised tools as well, like goblin glider or whatever, making the fight even less fun, and in strong favour of them.

[Robotica]

It used to be rather captivating when you'd be in a zone for whatever reason and stuff would be going down, I really liked it. It's almost non-existent these days though, TBC has a lot of the "open world" objectives though.

[Rorke]

I just participate in world PvP just to cause chaos, not to win. I'll attack whatever until someone stops me and then I'll just respawn and do it again.

[Borgia]

Yep, the legendary rings are insanely good, that's why my main and 2 of my alts have legendary rings, all ugotta put is afk in LFR while watching a movie, but yes legendary items are must to have for Wpvp

It's ridiculous. Tried to gank an affli lock the other day. He had full mythic plus fully upgraded ring and speced into grimsac. Long story short, he overhealed himself trough my damage, my wound poison's mortal strike AND nerve strike talent...

[Wall-Flower]

I love wpvp! I have never been one to attack someone of the opposing faction, but when someone attacks me...it's on! I love an equally geared fight.

[Kagthul]

1) Because we are talking ability of a skilled PvPer to kill a Dragonslayer who thinks his PvE gear> PvP skill of a Glad player, and skills my friend determined by past or current performances. Maybe in PvE you guys can measure your skills by your future performance that did not happen yet, but not in PvP. Also I am taking Current and Past xpacs to establish a trend WoW followed,

And? They have already stated publicly that that is not how it will work anymore. Past trends are completely meaningless.

which will be a more accurate idea of balancing, then current Alpha where nothing is tuned, everything can be changed 100 times, and where specs are not even completed. I never said it will be the same, but it provides a good idea towards what direction it will be moving.

Not it doesn't, because they've already stated that they ARENT going in that direction?

For your little mind here are few example of educated prediction we can make based on current/prev xpac: Droods going to be a very mobile class,

... powershifting removed completely, displacer beast removed from some specs, auto-roots removed. Uh... yeah. You might want to learn to read.

DKs are going to be tanky,

3/4 of their mitigation removed, health gains in instanced PvP from strikes massively reduced, yeah, super tanky.

rogues and mages going to have a high amount of control in PvP,

More stuns and disorients put on the same DR instead of separate DRs, some stuns outright removed....

Locks and Shadow will be doing well in RBGs as well as spread dmg,

Locks are going to be doing great spread-pressure with a DoT removed from their rotation (and the only dangerous one, to boot?) yeah, OK.

here is what I mean making prediction based on the current data, unlike you making up stuff seems to be out of thin air.

You might want to go actually read the Alpha notes, then. Because nothing you've said is true.

2) Only cuz you, my dragonslayer, couldn’t get glad in all of your WoW experience, it does not mean it is actually hard, others can get it pretty easy if you know how to play your spec as well as ur teammates. But here is armory link of one of my alts, you can see Glad achiv from last season. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Medyza/simple

Irony: I dont PvE. At all. I havent even completed legendary rings because i hate LFR so much. Further Irony: that you somehow think im HAPPY that PvE-geared players (specifically healers and tanks) will be dominating World PvP. I think its a terrible idea, but that doesn't change the FACT that it is going to happen.

3) As I said, your English is very poor, since you said a PVEr tank can deal 5x (or was it 4x) my dmg while having 5x my hp, do you know difference between “and” and “or”? If you don’t plz re-visit basic English grammar.

Reading comprehension isn't your thing then. That isn't what i said, at all. What i said was tanks will have 3-5x your HP and do about 80% of your damage (those are straight quotes from Blue posts); and that very likely, PvE-geared DPS will do at least twice, if not three or four times your damage, because they will have set bonuses, enchants, and trinket effects that a PvP player cannot obtain through PvP, as they DO NOT EXIST on/as PvP gear.

Yes, tanks at end of the xpac probably WILL have 4x my hp, but they will NOT have 4x my hp AND deal 5x my dmg in pvp 1v1 situation.

No, but your basic inability to read and do math makes you look foolish. He doesnt need to do 4x your dps. He does 80% of your DPS. So, you have to kill him three times for every time he kills you. If you have 1 million HP, and he has 4 million HP, and you do 1 million damage, and he's done 800,000 - 80% - you're at 200k and ready to die and hes at 3 million, barely hurt. AND he still gets his FULL PvE VALUES for ALL OF HIS MITIGATION AND SELF HEALING.

4) Since ability to think is not your strong suit, I will simplify your math for you, those numbers are current alpha numbers, before any tuning was done, hence they do not matter (since they will change), blizzard stated that they soon will begin the tuning process, it is not even Beta yet, and you taking those numbers as a fact? No wonder you can’t get past 2k in rated pvp, your brain ability is equal to a chicken’s.

Im not even talking numbers. I'm talking percentages that the devs have posted within the last few weeks. Tanks WILL have 3-5 times the HP of DPS and Healers in PvE. This is a stated fact. THey WILL do worthwhile dps - between 75-90% of a DPS. Nothing has changed to change their minds on that. Stat templates and PvP-negatives (like reduced healing) WILL NOT apply in World PvP - that's a stated fact. Period. Whatever the actual numbers end up being is meaningless. Whatever HP you have, the tank (in PvE settings) will have 3-5 times more. He will NOT have that many HP in instanced PvP, but that's not what we're talking about.

You cant seem to get your head around the fact that the ONLY thing from instanced PvP that carries over to world PvP is your PvP talents.

5) Not just currently, it was never possible in WoW’s history, not sure what makes you think that after more than a decade of WoW this will change. Please post me a link where blizzard actually states something like “A mythic PvE geared DPS will be able to deal 5x more dmg than same spec in Glad/R1 level gear” hmm… I am waiting? But to save ur chicken’s brain time, u wont find this link because it does not exist.

Uh... thats true right now, son. . A fully mythic geared Hunter, for instance, can burst upwards of 1.5 million dps in PvE with trinkets and cooldowns. You cant do NEARLY that with PvP gear, even CQ gear. Youll be lucky to crack 500k on a good day.

6) Fact? Oh do please enlighten me, post me an official blizzard’s post that supports ur statement that “pve geared tank will be dealing 5x more dmg AND have 4x more hp than a Glad/R1 geared PvPer” I do find it funny how you refer to pre-tuning phase in Alpha as fact…lol gotta love dragonslayers, u guys are like clowns, brings smiles to ppl’s faces, well done there ).

Considering i never said that thing you keep quoting, this is a moot point.

For your consideration, though, is this quote directly from Celestalon:

Tanks will indeed have much more health than DPS; apologies if that was unclear. It's just that their total effective health can safely be in the 5-15x of a DPS range

And another:

ou shouldn't have to give up your mitigation in order to deal respectable damage. You shouldn't have to accept doing trivial damage if you want to really make sure you survive and minimize healer assistance. Both of those goals should be aligned, and you should be rewarded for playing well with great damage and survivability.

ten seconds on the WoW forums, kiddo.

7) I referred not to your actual set bonus, but to combination of different stats/ sets/ trinkets, to simplify for your little brain so that you can understand lets call it 4 different outfits of gear, can ur chicken brain process now? Lets call set A) offensive, set B) defensive, Set C) Offensive + legendary item. I do hope you can keep up pve hero.

And? This wont matter at all. You wont have a choice of stats on your gear from PvP. Its just one set of gear. Try to follow along.

8) “we” u are saying that you have a split personality? Well that would explain a lot lol the fact that all ur arguments do not hold any actual ground. Kiddo you do need l2read English

I have a degree that lets me teach English, 'kiddo'. I find it funny that a guy who cant make a cogent argument without resorting to ad-hominem and begging the question, and who also cant spell out complete words, use proper grammar, et al, is trying to criticize someone who is actually intelligent. (That last part - that's ad-hominem, just in to educate you a bit).

lol I never said current/past xpacs will have bearing on WPvP in Legion,

Yeah, actually you did. Your entire post revolved around how things currently are and how that is going to be exactly translatable to Legion.

but I did say it holds sound trait of what like balancing will look like in PvP. Funny, this is what all PVErs do when they encounter a pvper, run with their tail between their legs =) good talking to you chicken brains lol try not to hurt urself doing your PVE rotation on NPC that does not hit back.
P.S. I loved how you never commented on me pwning that lock 7 times (without even popping my major cds) who had 3x my hp, guess you have nothing to make up when topic relates to actual facts lol.

Why would I? Afflock damage is pathetic single-target. And if you're playing a melee class.. hur dur. Melee > Lock. SOOOO IMPRESSIVE. A tunnel-vision ret can blow one out in the space of a stun with nothing but wings active. That's what you're not getting. You're not going to be dealing with a class that has about.. 40% more HP (and sacc'ed his pet to do that, removing all of the utility that would have allowed him to kill you) and does less than half your damage like that poor afflock (and does it super slowly). You're going to be dealing with a tank who has 400% more HP and does almost as much damage as you do. And has active mitigation, and self healing, tuned to PvE values instead of PvP values.

You never responded to my post that in WPvP, high skilled PvPers wont let you do your PVE rotation, it does not matter in PvP if your gear enables you to pull high numbers if you will be locked down and killed, since PVP>PvErs in PvP, always was and always will be this way, good gear does not mean much if you can not play your spec properly lol.

Who said anything about doing a PvE rotation? I dont even PvE. Never have, not since the original beta. Most i've done in PvE is occasionally sub in when friends needed a spot in their raids, and since Flex became a thing, i havent even done that because they dont need to fill that slot. I PvP exclusively. No, i dont do cancerbox. Ive literally never stepped foot into anything other than Arena skirmishes because Deathmatch is boring as fuck. I used to do rBGs, before i had a kid and decided that spending time doing rBGs for rating was less important than spending time with my son, so now i just do Yolo's, random BGs, and Ashran for CQ.

What you're not getting, and cant seem to get through that little pea between your ears, is that the gear gap is going to be literally unfathomable. Bigger than ever before. PvP is going to be tuned around instanced PvP, where the stat templates apply and render your gear completely useless. . The stats on the gear are meaningless. The only thing it matters for in "real" PvP (which Blizz defines as instanced PvP) is a slight bump in your stat template based on iLevel. Thats it.

In PvE, the gap is going to be huge. You cant get trinkets from PvP (at all); you cant get gear with set bonuses (at all), and you cant use enchants in PvP (but you can enchant your PvP acquired gear, so this wont be an issue in wPvP at least). Have you -seen- the set and trinket bonuses in Legion? Some of them are absolutely absurd - and they can and will be, because they are tuned solely for PvE - since they DONT WORK IN INSTANCED PVP, which is all Blizzard cares about. But they DO work in World PvP.

Have fun rolling into an Afflock or Shadow Priest with the legendary neck. 20% chance per DoT tick on every DoT (including Drain Life!) to deal the full damage of the entire DoT? Melted.

Since PvE gear bonuses and set bonuses and trinket affects CANNOT affect "real" PvP - which is all Blizzard is balancing for - they can and will remain absurd. And they can and will destroy even the most remote semblance of balance or playability in World PvP.

Your skill wont matter one iota when take a hit for 3/4 of your HP in one shot.

Get it through your brain: World PvP is going to be an unbalanced, horrible mess. PvE gear WILL be superior (because you can get the stats you really need/want to be OP, instead of your one-size-fits-all Stat Template from instanced PvP) and there will be precisely NO balancing done for World PvP (already stated by the devs). Again, if you've read anything ive said and think that i LIKE what is coming, you're completely inept and need to go back to first grade. I HATE it. It's going to utterly destroy World PvP, though i will be having some serious fun 1v4ing people on my Blood DK.

Also, enjoy ignore. I'm done with you.

[Deleted]

Yes, yes I am.

I'm the guy who camps your corpse and spams /spit and /lol.

I actually had a good time in Tanaan before flying ruined my experience. I transfered to Alliance on a Horde dominated server just to gank folks, I teamed up with another buddy who did the same (2 mages) and we often took on as many as 10 people (successfully, mages op mkay) and killed everybody in the entire questing area. I think that was pretty much the only time I actually had fun in this garbage expansion.

The best part is always when people bother to log on some lvl 1 alt and flame you. Haha.

[Sazabius]

Before xrealms and flying sure.

[Valech]

If you mean wheather I hover somewhere in Tanaand and global green geared players with two adds until they add me on battle net to flame me? Yes, yes I do that.

THat´s not Wpvp tho. good, balanced Wpvp is dead since Vanilla. I don´t find that bad in particular, it was just a logical byproduct of flying and certain other, generally good game design choices.

[Kagthul]

If you mean wheather I hover somewhere in Tanaand and global green geared players with two adds until they add me on battle net to flame me? Yes, yes I do that.

THat´s not Wpvp tho. good, balanced Wpvp is dead since Vanilla. I don´t find that bad in particular, it was just a logical byproduct of flying and certain other, generally good game design choices.

I would say that it was fairly well alive in early TBC, as well. Flying didn't have a lot to do with it dying, just lack of the world PvP content being relevant at 70.

If there had been raid-relevant gear, or max-level PvP gear available from the world objectives in Hellfire, Zangar, etc, it would have remained relevant, i think.

But after maybe.. four months, when nothing useful could be gained from it for PvE or PvP, yeah, it died. And then they never tried to make anything world-relevant again.

[joesmoed]

wpvp is a thing? That ended when Flying mounts were introduced into the game.

[Kufell]

Used to be into WPvP until it was ruined by toxicity from guilds like yours. Most the WPvP guilds used to be respectful, but now everyone goes out of their way to be an ass and stir up drama in a poor attempt at becoming e-famous.

It's just stupid and counter-productive to realm community health.

[Snegovik]

It's ridiculous. Tried to gank an affli lock the other day. He had full mythic plus fully upgraded ring and speced into grimsac. Long story short, he overhealed himself trough my damage, my wound poison's mortal strike AND nerve strike talent...

I personally find Boomy + legendary rings + Incarnation form is the scariest with 3 star-surges. Personally (i play Ret) i found that the best way to beat UA is not let him cast, when i am fighting UA locks i just pop everything of the start, trying to finish fight quickly (since long fights they will win) i even use bubble as a 2nd trinket when necessary. But yeh bottom point legendary ring is very very helpful in WPvP, another item that is MUST to get is (i forgot the name, its called endless something) item you get a strong-box in FFA arena if u win it (there is drop rate something like 30%), what it does is increase ur dmg by 60%, increase ur health by 100%, decreases incoming heals by 100% for 45 seconds (but your % based heals still work aka recup for Rogues, or LOH for Pallies), you need get that, it has 2 hour cd but well worth it. With that item + legendary ring + my wings i can 2 shot most people in world pvp, comes handy when i gang Val'mar 1v5 hordies.
P.S. here is the link to item http://www.wowhead.com/item=118904/unleashed-mania
it is actually called Unleashed-Mania

[Crimewave]

Nope, arena and raiding was the reason I started to play this game seriously.
Can't care less about wpvp and cosider it inferior to instanced pvp activities.

[Snegovik]

And? They have already stated publicly that that is not how it will work anymore. Past trends are completely meaningless.



Not it doesn't, because they've already stated that they ARENT going in that direction?



... powershifting removed completely, displacer beast removed from some specs, auto-roots removed. Uh... yeah. You might want to learn to read.



3/4 of their mitigation removed, health gains in instanced PvP from strikes massively reduced, yeah, super tanky.



More stuns and disorients put on the same DR instead of separate DRs, some stuns outright removed....



Locks are going to be doing great spread-pressure with a DoT removed from their rotation (and the only dangerous one, to boot?) yeah, OK.



You might want to go actually read the Alpha notes, then. Because nothing you've said is true.




Irony: I dont PvE. At all. I havent even completed legendary rings because i hate LFR so much. Further Irony: that you somehow think im HAPPY that PvE-geared players (specifically healers and tanks) will be dominating World PvP. I think its a terrible idea, but that doesn't change the FACT that it is going to happen.



Reading comprehension isn't your thing then. That isn't what i said, at all. What i said was tanks will have 3-5x your HP and do about 80% of your damage (those are straight quotes from Blue posts); and that very likely, PvE-geared DPS will do at least twice, if not three or four times your damage, because they will have set bonuses, enchants, and trinket effects that a PvP player cannot obtain through PvP, as they DO NOT EXIST on/as PvP gear.



No, but your basic inability to read and do math makes you look foolish. He doesnt need to do 4x your dps. He does 80% of your DPS. So, you have to kill him three times for every time he kills you. If you have 1 million HP, and he has 4 million HP, and you do 1 million damage, and he's done 800,000 - 80% - you're at 200k and ready to die and hes at 3 million, barely hurt. AND he still gets his FULL PvE VALUES for ALL OF HIS MITIGATION AND SELF HEALING.



Im not even talking numbers. I'm talking percentages that the devs have posted within the last few weeks. Tanks WILL have 3-5 times the HP of DPS and Healers in PvE. This is a stated fact. THey WILL do worthwhile dps - between 75-90% of a DPS. Nothing has changed to change their minds on that. Stat templates and PvP-negatives (like reduced healing) WILL NOT apply in World PvP - that's a stated fact. Period. Whatever the actual numbers end up being is meaningless. Whatever HP you have, the tank (in PvE settings) will have 3-5 times more. He will NOT have that many HP in instanced PvP, but that's not what we're talking about.

You cant seem to get your head around the fact that the ONLY thing from instanced PvP that carries over to world PvP is your PvP talents.



Uh... thats true right now, son. . A fully mythic geared Hunter, for instance, can burst upwards of 1.5 million dps in PvE with trinkets and cooldowns. You cant do NEARLY that with PvP gear, even CQ gear. Youll be lucky to crack 500k on a good day.



Considering i never said that thing you keep quoting, this is a moot point.

For your consideration, though, is this quote directly from Celestalon:



And another:



ten seconds on the WoW forums, kiddo.



And? This wont matter at all. You wont have a choice of stats on your gear from PvP. Its just one set of gear. Try to follow along.



I have a degree that lets me teach English, 'kiddo'. I find it funny that a guy who cant make a cogent argument without resorting to ad-hominem and begging the question, and who also cant spell out complete words, use proper grammar, et al, is trying to criticize someone who is actually intelligent. (That last part - that's ad-hominem, just in to educate you a bit).



Yeah, actually you did. Your entire post revolved around how things currently are and how that is going to be exactly translatable to Legion.



Why would I? Afflock damage is pathetic single-target. And if you're playing a melee class.. hur dur. Melee > Lock. SOOOO IMPRESSIVE. A tunnel-vision ret can blow one out in the space of a stun with nothing but wings active. That's what you're not getting. You're not going to be dealing with a class that has about.. 40% more HP (and sacc'ed his pet to do that, removing all of the utility that would have allowed him to kill you) and does less than half your damage like that poor afflock (and does it super slowly). You're going to be dealing with a tank who has 400% more HP and does almost as much damage as you do. And has active mitigation, and self healing, tuned to PvE values instead of PvP values.



Who said anything about doing a PvE rotation? I dont even PvE. Never have, not since the original beta. Most i've done in PvE is occasionally sub in when friends needed a spot in their raids, and since Flex became a thing, i havent even done that because they dont need to fill that slot. I PvP exclusively. No, i dont do cancerbox. Ive literally never stepped foot into anything other than Arena skirmishes because Deathmatch is boring as fuck. I used to do rBGs, before i had a kid and decided that spending time doing rBGs for rating was less important than spending time with my son, so now i just do Yolo's, random BGs, and Ashran for CQ.

What you're not getting, and cant seem to get through that little pea between your ears, is that the gear gap is going to be literally unfathomable. Bigger than ever before. PvP is going to be tuned around instanced PvP, where the stat templates apply and render your gear completely useless. . The stats on the gear are meaningless. The only thing it matters for in "real" PvP (which Blizz defines as instanced PvP) is a slight bump in your stat template based on iLevel. Thats it.

In PvE, the gap is going to be huge. You cant get trinkets from PvP (at all); you cant get gear with set bonuses (at all), and you cant use enchants in PvP (but you can enchant your PvP acquired gear, so this wont be an issue in wPvP at least). Have you -seen- the set and trinket bonuses in Legion? Some of them are absolutely absurd - and they can and will be, because they are tuned solely for PvE - since they DONT WORK IN INSTANCED PVP, which is all Blizzard cares about. But they DO work in World PvP.

Have fun rolling into an Afflock or Shadow Priest with the legendary neck. 20% chance per DoT tick on every DoT (including Drain Life!) to deal the full damage of the entire DoT? Melted.

Since PvE gear bonuses and set bonuses and trinket affects CANNOT affect "real" PvP - which is all Blizzard is balancing for - they can and will remain absurd. And they can and will destroy even the most remote semblance of balance or playability in World PvP.

Your skill wont matter one iota when take a hit for 3/4 of your HP in one shot.

Get it through your brain: World PvP is going to be an unbalanced, horrible mess. PvE gear WILL be superior (because you can get the stats you really need/want to be OP, instead of your one-size-fits-all Stat Template from instanced PvP) and there will be precisely NO balancing done for World PvP (already stated by the devs). Again, if you've read anything ive said and think that i LIKE what is coming, you're completely inept and need to go back to first grade. I HATE it. It's going to utterly destroy World PvP, though i will be having some serious fun 1v4ing people on my Blood DK.

Also, enjoy ignore. I'm done with you.

How cute a dragon slayer came for more, what happened I thought u were done with me lol, anyways since you wasted your time once again on a book called “How to PvP” written by a PvEr let me guide you, my child, to the right path.
1) A) Stated publically what? That PvP skills of a glads/R1 players will not work any more? Lol do you even read what you right kiddo? Skills do not go away, this is not a tangible item or talent that can be deleted, PvP skills will always stay with players no matter what xpac it is, a player playing at R1 level in WOD still will be a high skilled PvPer 5 years from now, given he does not quit wow. You want a good example? Look up Vanguards or Avengerline armories, they are multi Glads/R1 EVERY season they pushed rating, so what you are telling me their skills will be completely meaningless in the Legion? Lol now this is funny, please share with rest of us w/e stuff you are smoking because it must be good. Also please find me a link where blizzard “publically stated it” because I call BS lol.
B) Stated what? Going what direction? Can you actually provide a single link backing up your mumbling lol? Because it sure seems you are pulling stuff out of the thing air. So you said Alpha’s talents and numbers are finals and will not be changed 100 times before release? Lol you are funny kiddo, I give you that
C) Power shifting has 5 sec internal cd, it was not removed (but good try), droods STILL will be a mobile class, you know why? Because every1 else lost a lot of mobility Rets for example lost cleanse snare, so they going to sit every root/nova/snare in game, every class lost some type of utility, not just druids, but druids STILL going to be one of the best mobile healers in the game, you know why? Because it always has been this way and always will be this way (hence basing on past and current xpacs) and only chicken brains like you are , will state that druids will not be mobile healers any more lol.
D) Well since you like to refer to Blizzard’s posts maybe you should read them for once, Blizzard actually released a BLUE POST saying that retribution and death knight will be compensated for their limited mobility with damage and survival, see unlike you I actually know what blizzard said and can summarize it lol. But please by all mean, keep saying Droods will not be mobile and DKs wont have good PvP survival, so that people can laugh at you.
E) Dude how bad are u in PvP? Rogue’s stuns are not their prime cc, they going have 20 sec blinds, they still going to have silences, saps, and yes stuns as well, but the fact that blind is now 20 sec CD ontop of other cc puts them ahead cc wise above other melee in game.
F) Locks and shadows will be high sustain pressure DOT class, maybe you should watch some PvP Legion streams before mumbling on forums lol?
G) So far it seems you provided 0 links to back up any of clueless posts kiddo, post at least one link supporting anything you said lol especially part A, while I actually summarized for you an official blizzard’s blue post.

2) So if you don’t PVE and you don’t PVP then what do you do in WoW? Pet battles lol ? MOST pve geared players are PvErs and simply because they do not possess PvP skills they will not dominate wPvP. Also most PvErs will not have PvP talent tree fully unlocked, that talent tree along makes most classes twice as good in PvP, without even taking gear into consideration, ud know that if you actually followed Legion PvP streams/posts. PvPers who will have access to PvE gear will have an edge but a small one (not counting legendaries, because every1 can get them in legion) according to Blizzard, Devs stated that mythic gear will be same ilvl as Glad/R1 gear.

3) A) Lol this is exactly what you said “When they literally have 2-4 times the HP you do and do 3-5 times the damage?

Yeahno.”

Enchants will be still available to PvPers not sure what game you are playing lol, set bonuses and trinkets alone will not amount to 5x of my dmg lmao AND 4x of my hp but good try kiddo. Keep it coming your delusion posts, I do have a good laugh reading them

B) Lol it seems like you the one have problems reading your own previous posts where you say 4x hp AND 5x dmg refer to your quote above lol. In PVE situation yes tank can maybe deal 80% of my dmg, but in PvP situation, combined with PvP talents (which most PvErs will not full unlock), combined with my spec Ret Paladin (which counters all tanks due to magic dmg and self heals), combined with my Glad level skill vs some1 who kills Dragons with a guild, that 4x hp won’t do much, as I wrote in my previous 2 posts I faced a Destro lock in mythic gear who had 3x my hp and who DOES deal more than 100% of my dmg, yet I had no troubles killing him 7 times in a row, last 4 times once I figured out his rotation (see this is when PvP skills comes handy) I did not even need to pop any of my cds to kill him full buffed/full hp. Kiddo this is not a math equation, this is a video game where you have to considers a tool kit provided to each spec, the pvp talent tree, the PvP skill set of each players, and yes gear only then you can draw a picture of PvP positioning you can not claim if Xdmg=0.8Y dmg, and Xhp=0.25Yhp then PvP outcome will be solely determined by following equation Xdmg+Xhp> Ydmg+Yhp lol do you actually try to sound stupid or it comes naturally to you lol?

4) A) Lol didn’t you base your entire foolish argument based on your silliy 80% dmg/5x hp number lol?
I know tanks will have 4x more hp, I never said that they wont lol, I stated that having 4x more hp does not matter in PvP if you do not have ability to kill hybrid specs like Balance droods, Retribution these 2 spec can murder any tank class does not matter if they have 4-5x hp, since they do not have tools to outdps the Defensive cds + heals+ kiting utility of these 2 specs. LoL kiddo how bad are u at PvP that you think PvP all about dmg you can deal to a Dummy and your hp lol? Refer to Part 3-B.

B) it seems you are the one foolish enough to think that only PvP talents lol what about PvP skills what about Legendary items that PvPers can equip since it will be a world drop. PvP talents alone will be more valuable than PVE set bonuses + trinkets combined.

5) LoL kiddo not sure what kind of PvP do you play but in actual PvP vs high skilled players, no1 will let you just burst them without ccing or poping D-cds. Once again PvP is not about gear or stats its about class tool kit, for example lets take Boomy in PvP/ Ret in pvp gear vs hunter in PVE gear, both examples will rape ur hunter apart, Boomy has toolkit that enables him cast 3 instant star-surges in ur hunters face, healing for 40% of its direct dmg + bark skin + bash (given ur pve hunter won’t have a trinket to get out of bash) all ur hunter’s dmg won’t do much because he will be dead. Now lets take Ret, I will Hoj your hunter (just here he WILL die if he wont trinket, and most PVE hunters don’t have trinkets equip in wPvP), if he does trinkets, I will pop my Wings + ES on him (means Deterrence won’t stop its dmg), then he will be snared 50% slow at all times, mean I will be bashing him at melee range and even if he does use disengage not a big deal since my Finisher moves all range + if by some miracle I drop low, I can bubble and dps his face while he can’t touch me. See nub, PvP is about skill + tool kit ur spec has, no simply amount of dmg you can deal on a Dummy that does not hit you back or CC
6) A) Yes he talks about health, I don’t see him say once dmg will be 5x as much, as you posted earlier lol, l2read nub?
B) How bad your English must be, or its just ur brain bein
g slow lol? All he said there was that TANKS will be able to do dmg (he didn’t say 5x of a dps) and that tanks still will maintain mitigation and heals. None of that is new nor different from current xpac. Wow how much more will you make a fool out of urself lol kiddo? 10 seconds wasted and you still don’t prove any of your points lol.

7) Once again try to keep up with me here kiddo, legendary items can still be equipped for wPvP, means PvPers will have already at least 2 sets: 1 for rated PvP, other for wPvP.
8) A) If you have a degree then it must cost less than what I paid for my suit last week lol, cuz your logic is none-existent, you yet to prove a single point and you brain is so narrow minded that you can not understand that the outcome of a PvP is a combination of skills, tool kit, spec you play vs spec you face, pvp talents, luck (procs, crits/dodges) and gear, instead of simply X deals 0.8Ydmg and Xhp=0.25Yhp therefore X will win in PvP, lol I would advise you go back and finish ur high-school kiddo.
B) see your English is soo bad that you don’t understand difference between a direct bearing and making a sound prediction/judgment of a trend based on previous and current data, oppose to what you are doing : pulling stuff out of a thing air.
C) UA was never meant to be ST dps lol, UA is amazing in RBGs and good in 3s due to its spread dmg, cc, decent peels (see its called a tool kit). He also was Destro lock and not UA lol nub, you also can not kill a lock with 960k hp in a hoj (and yes he actually did have a pvp trinket), destroy locks does MORE dmg than Ret actually if you let him free cast, that’s what ur little brain can not grasp, pvp is not about PvE rotation lol. Yes I will be dealing with tanks, who can NOT cc me as much as lock, who can NOT burst me down in a single fear like a destroy lock, who can NOT kite me as well as destroy lock, who is MELEE unlike Destro lock, means I am the one who will be doing kitting. See since you never actually fought vs a tank as a hybrid class and playing at high PvP skill level, that is why your chicken brain can not grasp a simple facts, hybrids like Boomy/Ret counter tanks, I actually rather fight 2 PVE geared tanks than 1 GOOD pvp geared Destro lock, this knowledge comes from extensive pvp xp, something that you lack in both departments.
D) you been talking all alone about PVE rotation since you do not take into consideration pvp talents, interrupts, cc, skills you only focus on DMG/HP and thinking like a total nub you are, that it will 100% define the outcome of a PvP encounter, at this point I don’t even have to argue since it is so clear how much of a baddie you are with 0 clue about actual pvp. You also would know so called “PVE rotation” is not talking about Raiding or killing world bosses, it means a person who does an optimum dps rotation ignoring cc, fake casts, kitting, healing, once again this alone shows that you have 0 clue about proper PvP.
LOL LOL this “Ive literally never stepped foot into anything other than Arena skirmishes”
So you never did rated arena, you failed in RBGs so much that you can only do arena Skirmishes where skilled PvPers can 1v3 lol, I am sorry I didn’t realize that you were THIS BAD. So please keep arguing vs a Gladiator level PvP as person who does Skirmish Arena only lol. Same outcome can be determined from a scientific background debate between a PHD professor who defended multiple research papers and a garbage man, lol so please keep it coming I do have a good time reading your clueless posts about PvP.
P.S. Blizzard stated that Mythic gear will be just few ilvls higher than Glad/R1 gear if that or most likely equaled. The only difference will be set bonuses + trinkets which are overshadowed by PvP-talent trees and PvP skills, and once again ( I do hope your little brain can absorb it) legendary items are from WORLD Kills, hence any1 can get them both PvPers and PvErs. I will have fun pwning tanks in wPvP who are like punching bags, have a lot of hp but can not do any significant damage, and yes I can not wait to see a TANK take ¾ of my HP when Tanks will be doing roughly 80% of my dmg, so it means I will be able to almost 1 shot people in PvP gear, lol how pathetic your rational thinking kiddo? Anyways go back and finish ur high-school please and I will be waiting for another book of “PvP numbness” written by a person who only does Skirmishes LOL.

- - - Updated - - -

Also PvPers will also have access to items like Unleashed-Mania that in wPvP will enable us 1v4 Skirmishes heroes like you and surely any Mythic geared tanks lol.

[RelaZ]

-snip-

Don't even bother discussing with him. His English is terrible yet he complains about yours. Your arguments are very clear and undisputably true, someone with PvE gear will always win over someone with PvP gear if they are of similar skill in Legion - not fair. Yet he claims you are 'just a dragonslayer' with his broken English.

I had a discussion (or rather tried to have, I didnt even bother replying after seeing his retarded response to me calling him out on his bs) with him regarding the state of CC/DRs and skill in Legion the other day, he did the exact same thing calling me a 'dragonslayer' after he himself said Blizzard should consider making all CC share a single DR category or introduce CDs on all spammable CCs as some form of a solution to the issues in Legion - which is a typical PvE dragonslayer request... /facepalm.