Is Taxation Theft?

[Jessicka]

Infrastructure can be completely privatized as it is here in Japan and we have probably the best quality infrastructure of any country on Earth save Hong Kong or Singapore.

But everyone still pays for them, and there's no realistic way of avoiding using them - especially indirectly if you depend on customers - so in effect, they are an unavoidable expense no different from tax. Except 20%+ of what you're paying just goes in to someone's pocket rather than being reinvested.

I think your country benefits from an appreciation of its importance, rather than the wests' constant denigration of it, and especially demonisation of the people working on it.

[zephid]

Well not everything can be privatized but infrastructure can.

Sure, and then they'll charge you a fee if you want to use the roads etc. You either pay in the form of a tax or you pay the private company a fee in order to use the roads they have built etc. In the end it doesn't really matter, you'll pay either way.

[TITAN308]

Many on the fringe of the libertarian movement in the US hold this view of taxation, inherently being theft. What is your opinion on it? Personally I see it as a cost of living within a boundary.

I don't think you will find that people are oppose to the idea of taxes at its core, the problem stems from gross abuse of how tax dollars are spent.

When the government is spending $800,000 to conduct a studies on the effects of Banana Spiders eating chocolate while watching TV 23 hours a day, we have a problem. You would be amazed at the amount of money that is spent on the dumbest shit.

[Kujako]

Infrastructure can be completely privatized as it is here in Japan and we have probably the best quality infrastructure of any country on Earth save Hong Kong or Singapore.

The same Japan that has large areas without infrastructure because it's not profitable enough? And how are you posting this on the Internet if you only use private infrastructure?

[Deletedaccount1]

You badly need to experience the real world and spare us the adam smith institute crap.

I do, I drive on privatized Japanese highways where tolls are collected to pay for it by private companies and I ride the subway which is payed for by private train companies that own individual lines.

[Daelak]

1) It is not the job of the government to obtain a ROI. That should be left to the individual. This is a fundemental problem with expansionary government. 2) No I would not believe you. In fact you tend to be wrong. Road infrustructure often needs tolls just to pay for upkeep, and the upkeep tends to be inefficient compared to roads created by the free market.

Now lets take the US Post Office. In the US the Post Office competes with UPS and Fed Ex. The US Post Office is government subsidized meaning they get a ton of money from people who don't use it. Between the UPS, Fed Ex and the USPS only one loses money every year. That would be the USPS.

Welcome to the 21st century. Public investment has and continues to be the highest and best form of investment for large projects private investment cannot risk. A infrastructure project from the 1950's still continues to return trillions of dollars of business today. People like you don't have enough knowledge of how a modern economy operates, including the interactions between public and private investment to even have an opinion on it.

The USPS does routes that FedEX and others cannot due because it is too expensive. It has a constitutional mandate to service all Americans.

If we were to ascribe your batshit economic ideology to the US, we would be as economically diversified as Greece, and as unified as Southern Sudan.

[JohnBrown1917]

Thats cause some of the super wealthy cheat and dont follow the laws. That doesnt make it ok to steal from non-criminal rich.

How are taxes theft? Nobody is forcing them to live in the country they reside in.
Its like saying paying rent is theft.

[Deleted]

So fuck the poor, the disabled and the sick who can't afford treatment?

Might be interesting to see what happens if they get cancer or something. I suspect they might change their minds when they are in crippling pain and agony.

[Deletedaccount1]

Sure, and then they'll charge you a fee if you want to use the roads etc. You'll pay either way.

Yes which is why there is no reason why the government needs to do it.

[Deleted]

Where do you think all the money that the banks get from the state comes from?

Well they need to be held responsible of course. What I mean though is if you have your own business, or whatever, say someone like Bill Gates or that Minecraft guy or Zuckerberg. Taking money from them through taxes and using it on something they dont benefit from is theft.

[Jessicka]

Yes which is why there is no reason why the government needs to do it.

Efficiencies of scale. Total reinvestment.

[Deleted]

Is it theft? No, as long as you don't have to pay more then 50%.
Does it feel like theft every single fucking time your pay check comes in? Yes it does, seeing I am not using the tax I am paying.
Some shit lord on welfare is sucking that titty dry.

[Machismo]

Taxation is theft, albeit legalized theft. It is not a voluntaryaction, and is done against someone's will. Of course, most people are fine with it, just as they are also fine with other minor forms of oppression.

[TwistedSkull]

living in a country without paying taxes is theft. you're using services without paying and choosing to stay and keep doing it.

This is what i think i don't need to add to that.

[Donald Hellscream]

As long as the money is spend on making the country better then no its not theft as it is something that benefits the population.

[A dot Ham]

You're staying in a hotel... you're paying to stay there...

OMG THEFT!

Hypothetically speaking... I live out in the middle of fucking nowhere in Montana...

I don't have public utilities for miles, nor do I have any sort of infrastructure. I am very much off the grid. I sell some livestock and produce so that I can buy some modern amenities from time to time. But I have to pay income tax on that? I am not benefiting from a single thing taxes pay for.

The progression of taxation and government bodies has loosely evolved from theft or the bandit theory.

Picture early settlers/pioneers out west.

There is a town. Bandits come and ransack the town of all its wealth. Bandits leave... town cannot recover. Eventually the bandits will run out of towns to pillage.

Next evolution

Bandits offer protection to multiple towns from OTHER bandits for a fee/%. Town continues to thrive, bandits get what they want/need. Everyone is protected.

Next evolution

Bandits become too costly/greedy. Town hires/elects "lawful" folk to police/protect town.

This is government in its basic form.

[Deleted]

How are taxes theft? Nobody is forcing them to live in the country they reside in.
Its like saying paying rent is theft.

Oh really? You dont choose where youre born and theres is no magical "no mans country" where you can go.

[Deleted]

Yes which is why there is no reason why the government needs to do it.

The way you say it your best argument goes to waste.
When you have in privatized as you described you are only paying for it if and when you are actually using it.
her in germany we got a tax for state TV, complete BS, you have to pay it even if you don't even own a TV.

Oh really? You dont choose where youre born and theres is no magical "no mans country" where you can go.

There is Somalia.

[Jessicka]

Hypothetically speaking... I live out in the middle of fucking nowhere in Montana...

I don't have public utilities for miles, nor do I have any sort of infrastructure. I am very much off the grid. I sell some livestock and produce so that I can buy some modern amenities from time to time. But I have to pay income tax on that? I am not benefiting from a single thing taxes pay for.

If you're not making enough to reach the tax threshold, then no.

[Revi]

The only one who gets a generous return out of taxes are politicians and banks.

I disagree. Work ~40 hours a week, around 13-15 of those goes into tax. For those 13-15 hours a week I get security, healthcare, education, roads, plumbing, affordable electricity, affordable and safe water, fire services, ambulances, a whole system of law enforcement, my money gets insured, mental health care if needed, checks to insure I don't get screwed by my employer or by people selling me goods, public facilities, public spaces, funded arts and entertainment and sports programs, welfare if I ever need it, a LOT more than I can think of off the top of my head, and I help provide that for everyone else in my community.

That's for 13-15 hours of week of work. Try to imagine how much you'd have to work to get a really shitty, sub-par version of even half of those things if not for taxes and an organized and central government.