I Welcome Ability Pruning

[Orangetai420]

It may be your idea of fun, but that does not mean it's everyone's.
My idea of fun is to use whatever abilities I feel like using at the moment and not having to care about specific numbers whatsoever.

Unfortunately for you this won't be the case in legion. Each spell will have a distinct purpose (I mean it does now too....) so you can't hit random buttons and hope for good results.

[Mihalik]

A real ability should look, feel and act unique in every way. The talent choices which potentially add new abilities for players are good for those who want to split up abilities into different functions - For Arms, to remain at your example - Rend which will become a talent in Legion. Many people will still pick Fervor of Battle nonetheless.

On another note: the devs are actually trying to integrate auto-attack into demon hunter gameplay much like they tried to integrate auto-attack into monk gameplay. Auto-attack is not inherently as boring as you picture it if it's integrated well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziVqj1e0MJ8

Fervor of Battle is both dumb and boring, but it's a must of cleave fights. It just means you'll switch talents before every fight.

Rend is interesting because you need to change targets to maximize its potential.

Fervor of Battle is just a passive Rage source.

There is no competition between the two abilities.

Its basically case A pick this, case B pick that. Don't pretend like there is a choice. And how does a passive rage source that has no visible effect on your gameplay an interesting ability?

Furthermore what they did with monk auto attack...Are you really that simple to find THAT interesting?

Monk "auto attack" is essentially the Rogue combo point generator. All it does it removes passive over time damage you get by being in proximity of the boss and adds into a more bursty form by moving all that damage onto your combo point generator. This actually makes gameplay slightly easier. For other melees being out of melee range even for fractions of a fight are dps loss because you either lose swings or because you lose resources (rage). It makes positioning very slightly less punishing.

This is why monks got Fists of Fury with the movement penalty, an ability that immobilizes you thus forcing Monks to pay attention to when and where do they use it.

This is not more immersive gameplay. It's just loads of bla bla to bamboozle people who don't actually pay attention to the game they are playing.

The only thing that makes WoW gameplay interesting is not the individual abilities and their effects, but ability interaction. And that interaction is what they are removing.

[Cinnamohn]

Are you stuck in the matrix or something? XD
We don't want to remember fucking numbers

It's an RPG. And also, you're only one person, so speak for yourself and not the imaginary people who you think agree with you.

[WhiteEagle888]

Unfortunately for you this won't be the case in legion. Each spell will have a distinct purpose (I mean it does now too....) so you can't hit random buttons and hope for good results.

I specifically said in a previous post that it's good to have a distinct purpose for each spell - that's what makes them unique. That however doesn't change the fact that I don't always want to go by the same rotation over and over again just for the sake of min-maxing.

- - - Updated - - -

Fervor of Battle is both dumb and boring, but it's a must of cleave fights. It just means you'll switch talents before every fight.

Rend is interesting because you need to change targets to maximize its potential.

Fervor of Battle is just a passive Rage source.

There is no competition between the two abilities.

Its basically case A pick this, case B pick that. Don't pretend like there is a choice. And how does a passive rage source that has no visible effect on your gameplay an interesting ability?

Furthermore what they did with monk auto attack...Are you really that simple to find THAT interesting?

Monk "auto attack" is essentially the Rogue combo point generator. All it does it removes passive over time damage you get by being in proximity of the boss and adds into a more bursty form by moving all that damage onto your combo point generator. This actually makes gameplay slightly easier. For other melees being out of melee range even for fractions of a fight are dps loss because you either lose swings or because you lose resources (rage). It makes positioning very slightly less punishing.

This is why monks got Fists of Fury with the movement penalty, an ability that immobilizes you thus forcing Monks to pay attention to when and where do they use it.

This is not more immersive gameplay. It's just loads of bla bla to bamboozle people who don't actually pay attention to the game they are playing.

Well excuse me if I want to enjoy a game and not do the chore of paying attention to every single detail. Games are meant for amusement not for doing work. - I like what I like and that's it :P

[Deleted]

Let's face it: Blizzard is doing the right thing by removing, replacing and/or merging certain abilities from the game time to time.

Ability pruning serves the need to free up action bar space and make room for potential new abilities to be added in the future.
Many of you who are shouting at Blizz for an oversimplified game seem to forget that Blizzard is actually aiming to create 36 unique "classes" with specs just now in Legion.
The exact opposite to the 11 more or less streamlined classes we have now.
Are you aware that many removed spells will be available to you in the form of class- or maybe even spec specific tomes and toys which teach you the spell?
This is what an RPG should be about. Exploring and expanding your abilities and spellbooks - Blizzard is doing a fantastic job with this in Legion.

I am certain, that going forward into the next expansions, Legion serves to create the room in the action bars for more and more spec specific abilities which fit just the exact fantasy niche players are craving for.

TL;DR
This pruning is just the first step towards spec specific abilities in future expansions guys.

At last someone who didn't jump on the bandwagon. I applaud you and wholeheartedly support your comment, more people should have the courage to make this stand, instead of mindlessly following the "trend" of a few peoples opinions.

[WhiteEagle888]

It's an RPG. And also, you're only one person, so speak for yourself and not the imaginary people who you think agree with you.

I know of at least 3 other people who totally agree with me on this thread. the fact that you don't recognize them from their posts is not my problem, but yours

- - - Updated - - -

At last someone who didn't jump on the bandwagon. I applaud you and wholeheartedly support your comment, more people should have the courage to make this stand, instead of mindlessly following the "trend" of a few peoples opinions.

Thank you for your support brother! United we stand!

[Deleted]

Well excuse me if I want to enjoy a game and not do the chore of paying attention to every single detail. Games are meant for amusement not for doing work. - I like what I like and that's it :P

You won't lose anything by having more abilities. You don't HAVE to minmax. If you do dungeons and LFR etc you really don't need to use your abilities to the max and you can use whatever ability you want to use.
But for us that like to improve our gameplay and minmax that becomes impossible with the pruning of abilities.

[WhiteEagle888]

You won't lose anything by having more abilities. You don't HAVE to minmax. If you do dungeons and LFR etc you really don't need to use your abilities to the max and you can use whatever ability you want to use.
But for us that like to improve our gameplay and minmax that becomes impossible with the pruning of abilities.

I understand your worries, but you will still be able to min-max, as I stated in the first post, I think the pruning is just the first phase to introducing even more specific abilities for your enjoyment also

[Mlz]

Well excuse me if I want to enjoy a game and not do the chore of paying attention to every single detail. Games are meant for amusement not for doing work. - I like what I like and that's it :P

Amusement in games can also come from accomplishing things and playing the game itself on a good level. It's almost like accomplishments are satisfying youknow Imagine 2 ppl painting for fun and one paints a masterpiece while the other paints a piece of shit. Objectively the second one is less skilled and the general concensus about what is or isn't decent art shouldn't be changed because the 2nd guy can't paint. You can still play the game when there are more buttons available, just don't use them if they are way above your skillcap or does it make you feel bad when it's made painfully obvious you're trash compared to better players?

[WhiteEagle888]

Amusement in games can also come from accomplishing things and playing the game itself on a good level. It's almost like accomplishments are satisfying youknow Imagine 2 ppl painting for fun and one paints a masterpiece while the other paints a piece of shit. Objectively the second one is less skilled and the general concensus about what is or isn't decent art shouldn't be changed because the 2nd guy can't paint. You can still play the game when there are more buttons available, just don't use them if they are way above your skillcap or does it make you feel bad when you are trash compared to better players?

Who are you to judge if a guy can or can not paint or not in the first place?
Art is specifically the one field where everything is accepted - you have to find hat you like and ignore what you don't like - There is no consensus as you put it at what's good and what is not good. And remaining on this topic, everything else should work like this as well - including wow rotations

[Sencha]

Let's face it: Blizzard is doing the right thing by removing, replacing and/or merging certain abilities from the game time to time.

Ability pruning serves the need to free up action bar space and make room for potential new abilities to be added in the future.
Many of you who are shouting at Blizz for an oversimplified game seem to forget that Blizzard is actually aiming to create 36 unique "classes" with specs just now in Legion.
The exact opposite to the 11 more or less streamlined classes we have now.
Are you aware that many removed spells will be available to you in the form of class- or maybe even spec specific tomes and toys which teach you the spell?
This is what an RPG should be about. Exploring and expanding your abilities and spellbooks - Blizzard is doing a fantastic job with this in Legion.

I am certain, that going forward into the next expansions, Legion serves to create the room in the action bars for more and more spec specific abilities which fit just the exact fantasy niche players are craving for.

TL;DR
This pruning is just the first step towards spec specific abilities in future expansions guys.

You're so naive. They won't replace the removed abilities by new ones.

[Mlz]

Who are you to judge if a guy can or can not paint or not in the first place?
Art is specifically the one field where everything is accepted - you have to find hat you like and ignore what you don't like - There is no consensus as you put it at what's good and what is not good. And remaining on this topic, everything else should work like this as well - including wow rotations

No, not everything is accepted. You are thinking as of shitting in a box is an art - yeah sure it can be if one guy creates a context around it and pushes it as performance but if you do it then it's art only for yourself. Ever heard of beauty standards? Very subjectively taken you can say that anything is art because you can view the 2 lines your kid drew as a huge piece of art but for the majority of the world, it's not considered art. There is general concensus at any given time about what is or isn't art, at least roughly.

[Deleted]

Let's face it: Blizzard is doing the right thing by removing, replacing and/or merging certain abilities from the game time to time.

Ability pruning serves the need to free up action bar space and make room for potential new abilities to be added in the future.
Many of you who are shouting at Blizz for an oversimplified game seem to forget that Blizzard is actually aiming to create 36 unique "classes" with specs just now in Legion.
The exact opposite to the 11 more or less streamlined classes we have now.
Are you aware that many removed spells will be available to you in the form of class- or maybe even spec specific tomes and toys which teach you the spell?
This is what an RPG should be about. Exploring and expanding your abilities and spellbooks - Blizzard is doing a fantastic job with this in Legion.

I am certain, that going forward into the next expansions, Legion serves to create the room in the action bars for more and more spec specific abilities which fit just the exact fantasy niche players are craving for.



TL;DR
This pruning is just the first step towards spec specific abilities in future expansions guys.

that sounds nice until you realize that it's always the unique situational abilities that make specs shine in niche situations that get pruned first.

so your argument is basically they are removing spec uniqueness so they can add spec uniqueness later.

[Deleted]

I understand your worries, but you will still be able to min-max, as I stated in the first post, I think the pruning is just the first phase to introducing even more specific abilities for your enjoyment also

But they aren't any new abilities to replace the pruned ones...
Look at this video for example and see how they have absolutely butchered Affliction Warlocks. Spamming UA is your idea of fun?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVJ44Ypm350

[Thelxi]

I'm all for it too. A higher number of buttons on bars does not equal a higher skill ceiling. You could have a 5 button full rotation and people could still show a difference in performance. Difficulty can be designed in many other places such as recourse management/planning, target switching decision making, mobility etc.. things that bad people don't actually actually set good players apart from bad players.

[WhiteEagle888]

No, not everything is accepted. You are thinking as of shitting in a box is an art - yeah sure it can be if one guy creates a context around it and pushes it as performance but if you do it then it's art only for yourself. Ever heard of beauty standards? Very subjectively taken you can say that anything is art because you can view the 2 lines your kid drew as a huge piece of art but for the majority of the world, it's not considered art. There is general concensus at any given time about what is or isn't art, at least roughly.

My sweet summer child xd
You'd be amazed what kind of pictures sell for very high prices nowadays - pieces which I myself would not consider art, but still some do.
You cannot change how people think, you simply have to accept the fact other people think differently.

[Deleted]

I'm all for it too. A higher number of buttons on bars does not equal a higher skill ceiling. You could have a 5 button full rotation and people could still show a difference in performance. Difficulty can be designed in many other places such as recourse management/planning, target switching decision making, mobility etc.. things that bad people don't actually actually set good players apart from bad players.

how do you propose to have mobility if all you have is 5 rotational buttons?

[WhiteEagle888]

I'm all for it too. A higher number of buttons on bars does not equal a higher skill ceiling. You could have a 5 button full rotation and people could still show a difference in performance. Difficulty can be designed in many other places such as recourse management/planning, target switching decision making, mobility etc.. things that bad people don't actually actually set good players apart from bad players.

This also - Thank you for bringing this up!
Maybe Blizz will iterate more on this concept as well in the future of WoW.
We need to rediscover what we can do in the world itself not in the UI.

[WhiteEagle888]

so your argument is basically they are removing spec uniqueness so they can add spec uniqueness later.

Partly, yes - and they even started with the uniqueness now in Legion.

[Mlz]

My sweet summer child xd
You'd be amazed what kind of pictures sell for very high prices nowadays - pieces which I myself would not consider art, but still some do.
You cannot change how people think, you simply have to accept the fact other people think differently.

Are you playing dumb or are you dumb? Almost no picture (unless historically valued) will sell for shittons without a context/name behind it. That's what I was trying to say with my example - if you paint a picture like this, noone is going to pay you $80 mln. Educate yourself before you speak, please.

And on topic - you're trying to adjust the game to your standards which causes massive boredom for others, who are you to say you're correct? It goes both ways. Tbh, if you really want to argue it, you can say that both ways are "correct", sure, but you can't objectively deny your way of playing has a lot less variation thus lower skillcap/fewer interesting options. You want the game to be focused on the environment you're playing in whilst I would argue that the other spectrum wants some strong focus on the characters aswell, which should include somekind of progressionpath where it takes more than a day to actually play your character on an acceptable level (sure there are rpg-s where characters are not in the focus as much but tbh I think it's too late for the paradigm shift in WoW). As it is now, you may attract one-day-butterflies to try out the game, they get to max level, they accomplish everything in a very short timespan because there is not much to experiment with and they leave the game beacuse they're done. They have 0 attachment to their characters (based on an example where I have a character with 9 days played and it's 730 ilvl, everything pugged). But Blizzard is doing exactly what you're asking them to do, so you may say your side is winning.