Is Marriage really that bad?

[Mehrunes]

If the woman has most of the wealth, and earns most of the money, she will be the one losing out on some of it. Come on guys, this isn't that hard to grasp.
You are all assuming that the man is always the wealthier one of the two, which is silly.

Completely unrelated, but I dig your new avatar :3

[ls-]

Just stick with your own gender. Problem solved. ;3

Yuck. NOWAI!

Completely unrelated, I dun dig your new avatar Prev one was better :3

[May90]

I always found the shaming language interesting

Men don't want to marry women - something must be wrong with the men!

How about: women just aren't good wife material these days

Shape up ladies

If a man doesn't want to marry women, then apparently that man isn't a good husband material, pretty much by definition. On the other hand, if men do not want to marry a certain woman, then it is reasonable to assume that she wouldn't make a good wife either: there is a reason they don't want to marry her, after all. So it works both ways, really.

In the end, there is no "men don't want to marry women" or "women don't want to marry men". These things hardly depend on gender. It is just some people that don't want to get married, and others who do. No one is to shame or blame, it is just individual preferences.

Women tend to prefer men who earn more than them, men who earn less are losers.

I think everyone, all other things equal, prefers to date someone who earns more than them, regardless of gender.

[Deleted]

Yuck. NOWAI!

I am kidding! Maybe.

Completely unrelated, but I dig your new avatar :3

Completely unrelated, I dun dig your new avatar Prev one was better :3

;3

[Deleted]

I don't think you know how many of those people who get a divorce have seriously tried to fix their marriage and how many haven't. That's all pure speculation.

Obviously I don't 'know' how many, but from my anecdotal observations I can see that many don't try.

Another reason for a higher divorce rate is simply that it's possible for women to get a divorce to begin with without committing financial and social suicide nowadays. How many marriages do you think only held in the past just because the wife couldn't afford to break up because she was completely dependent on the husband? Sure, divorce rate was lower - but that's not really a desirable reason for a marriage to go on either.

Yes but still, 60% divorce rate is pretty shocking.

[May90]

Yes but still, 60% divorce rate is pretty shocking.

Doesn't seem that shocking to me, really. Permanent marriage to the death is not something achieved easily, there are so many ways something can go wrong... I would be surprised actually if divorce rates were below 50%, given how many people do not think their marriage through before it's too late.

[Kourvith]

Doesn't seem that shocking to me, really. Permanent marriage to the death is not something achieved easily, there are so many ways something can go wrong... I would be surprised actually if divorce rates were below 50%, given how many people do not think their marriage through before it's too late.

Most of our grandparents did manage to stay together a whole lifetime though, and that's why a lot of people often talk about their time with them as the sweetest childhood memories.

cue the popular meme :

A reporter asked an old couple, "How did you manage to stay together for 65 years?" The woman replied, "We were born in a time when if something was broken, we would FIX it, not throw it away.

[Battlemaster]

You should have just made a poll with that question and the response options are "Yes" and "Definitely"

[Faylum1]

I am talking about the divorce aspect of it. I am biased, but I always hear that Women always win in a divorce and they usually get ex husband's home, money, car, Is this true and why? This just scares me to get married.

That is because the law has not updated itself with regards to equality. Its not a bias thing as such. If you think about the time in which these laws were made, most women were not allowed work or society itself shunned women who worked instead of looking after the children. And divorce benefited these women because if they had no source of income and could not work then they would need to supported in some way. Also it was widely known that women took care of the kids, men didn't. (not to say there haven't been men that did) So the law was there to protect women with kids. Without that law there would be nothing to stop men from having kids with one woman and then when things don't go so well, kick her onto the street with the kids and start over. (And as disgusting as that sounds we all know that would definitely happen)

The problem now is that times have changed and the laws have not been updated. Equality is a reality. Men and Women in some families both need or want to work. There is a massive change in society towards the raising of children, some fathers act like the mothers while the mothers act like fathers. There has been major progress in the roles and status of a family.
However and here is where it is unfair. Because the old laws have not been revised or updated and no one in the media, society nor any politician is fighting for these laws to be updated many unfortunate men are falling victim to a very old system in a very modern world. Women in almost every western country get child custody almost without trial. In Ireland the only way a man can get custody is if he was very smart in saving evidence and proof and even then it rarely ever guarantees a fair chance.
Another highly abused law that discriminates men to help with divorce is when women say they were harassed, bullied or intimidated. Very hard to disprove and incredibly easy to claim. Because again our society sees women as inferior or 'weaker' than men, the law just automatically takes their side. And as most women i have talked with would agree, most women who go through divorce, abuse these weaknesses in the law to get what they want.

So it is not a bias as such, no one is discriminating against men deliberately. It is more like the law is just drastically out of date and as we have seen all throughout history, people will abuse the loop holes in a system if they can benefit from it.

But with regards to Marriage, personally, from what i have learned, it is a thing that no longer works. You have to look at the way society is today. We are living in the Golden age of narcissism. The instant gratification generation. Where the media spins its propaganda towards other women, with magazines, tv or films, telling them that if they are not happy in a relationship to simply move on. The times of when your parents might have stuck together not out of love but because of the children or perhaps they might have worked harder to make things better are long over. Now if a relationship doesn't work you just get divorced and go get married again.
And i don't mean to sound sexist here but most women are brought up planning their wedding day since they were a kid. That special day where they are the most significant woman, the most beautiful and bla bla bla whatever else. I know personally of so many people who were not happy together as a couple and the girlfriend pushed for a wedding as if it would get better. They had their day and 6 months later are divorced.
And even from a financial point of view, a wedding is expensive. One of the worst ways to start a future with someone you love is by being in debt before it begins. I would say almost every single friend i have has parents that are either divorced or separated. We are living in what is widely considered to be the Golden Age of Narcissism. Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram and whatever else, having one singular purpose. To make you feel like you matter, like you are special. That is exactly the way the market wants you, buy, buy, buy, you greedy scumbag.

Best solution is that if you love the person your with, wait for a few years, maybe 10 years and live with them. Than go to a union office and get married there, nice and quiet and cheap. Because if she truly loves you then a big fancy wedding isn't important and you can start your life off without debt. Otherwise, just do what every man nowadays is doing, staying single.

[Deleted]

Most of our grandparents did manage to stay together a whole lifetime though, and that's why a lot of people often talk about their time with them as the sweetest childhood memories.

And how many of them stayed together because especially the wife would not have been able to live on her own after so many years of just being a house wife? And because society looked down on divorces so much more?
To think that they generally stayed together because they loved each other more (even though a lot of those marriages were abusive), or worked more on them is kinda naive.

[May90]

Most of our grandparents did manage to stay together a whole lifetime though, and that's why a lot of people often talk about their time with them as the sweetest childhood memories.

cue the popular meme :

Yes, but it wasn't always natural. So many couples have lived together the entire life and ended up deeply hating each other (my grandparents were like that, for example), but not going through divorce, because it was frowned upon by their generation... Fixing things is not always possible, and even when it is possible, people do not always do it.

So, I think, this increase in divorce rate recently was simply caused by the people acting more rationally nowadays, as opposed to sticking to ancient traditions. That's why it doesn't seem that high to me; if anything, it might keep increasing for a long time, until some balance is found.

[Deleted]

And how many of them stayed together because especially the wife would not have been able to live on her own after so many years of just being a house wife? And because society looked down on divorces so much more?
To think that they generally stayed together because they loved each other more (even though a lot of those marriages were abusive), or worked more on them is kinda naive.

I agree with this

Social pressures to remain married were huge, divorcees were shamed and that kept people together

Sometimes you might say: well that's not a good reason, what if they were unhappy but felt pressured to stay together

Sure - but are modern expectations of perfect marriage leading to 50% divorce rates any better?

Shaming divorcees just wouldn't work today - people don't want to be shamed for any reason at all, not even serious character flaws like laziness, narcissism, superficiality, selfishness, etc

[Kourvith]

And how many of them stayed together because especially the wife would not have been able to live on her own after so many years of just being a house wife? And because society looked down on divorces so much more?
To think that they generally stayed together because they loved each other more (even though a lot of those marriages were abusive), or worked more on them is kinda naive.

My grandmother did work as much as my grandfather, they met at a Paris ball, and kissed even at 70. The old couple in the appartment below mine is looking like a fucking hollywood film whenever they go out, and I can't count how many romantic old couples I've seen along the Paris river, simply walking quietly and smiling.

I'm not naive, indeed there were some bad cases, but generally we can't deny that it was rare to see our grandparents generation fight daily, search to fuck with the next best thing, or talking shit about love or dating.

[May90]

I'm not naive, indeed there were some bad cases, but generally we can't deny that it was rare to see our grandparents generation fight daily, search to fuck with the next best thing, or talking shit about love or dating.

It isn't that rare, in my experience. But I agree that more couples seem happy than unhappy with each other. Then, again, we don't know how many people from those happy couples we see actually have experienced a divorce or a few throughout their life, so it is hardly any indication.

[Kourvith]

It isn't that rare, in my experience. But I agree that more couples seem happy than unhappy with each other. Then, again, we don't know how many people from those happy couples we see actually have experienced a divorce or a few throughout their life, so it is hardly any indication.

I can relate aswell, as my *other* grandparents were constantly arguing (like, permanently.) Still managed to do it till the end, "for the children" (which can be debatable I agree). The odd thing is once she was deceased, we thought our grandfather would feel a huge relief. It was the opposite, he felt into deep depression and let die.

It's just a personal experience indeed, but to see the bigger picture, isn't it strange that observing the 21st century, the more people freed themselves from "morals & values", the more unhappy people we can find with love ? Morals shouldn't be forced, that's the purpose of a sane relationship, but some of them are definitely needed, imo. It's just a balance to have, a bit of magic, a bit of moral. Individualism kinda killed the latter.

[Captain N]

It isn't that rare, in my experience. But I agree that more couples seem happy than unhappy with each other. Then, again, we don't know how many people from those happy couples we see actually have experienced a divorce or a few throughout their life, so it is hardly any indication.

Those who have experienced divorces tend to learn from that when they go into their next relationship. Marriage in the 21st century could almost be compared to the building jump from the Matrix. Everyone falls the first time -- but it makes you realize what caused the issue and hopefully prevents it from happening the second time. The key issue I see not only with marriages but with relationships in general is failure to communicate. People have this thing built up in their minds that if they open up completely to someone they're going to be judged or hurt...so they don't give themselves completely to their relationship. Maybe more folks need to express to their partners whats on their minds before they get married...so that more people make the jump on the first try?

[Deleted]

I'm not naive, indeed there were some bad cases, but generally we can't deny that it was rare to see our grandparents generation fight daily, search to fuck with the next best thing, or talking shit about love or dating.

I mean, personal experiences obviously differ and it's mostly anecdotal, but I have heard of many cases in which the marriages lasted simply because they could not afford to split up - be it because of financial or social reasons.

Like I said: Sure, divorce rates are lower. But is it really worth it to make people stay in unhappy marriages just for the sake of keeping the numbers low?
I mean, I am not denying that our society as a whole, and a lot of people's view on relationships etc. has changed over time - but the reason I mentioned above certainly was an important factor why the divorce rate was so much lower.

[Vyse]

I would only marry someone if we could agree on a prenup (if its called that way).

You never know what will happen in the future, even if your married 10+ years.

In case of a divorce I would not want to be the one paying for my ex wife or giving her all my stuff,
but I would not want her to do the same (if she earned more money during the marriage or whatever).

A divorce is always painful, and the best way to handle things is 50 / 50 and peaceful, no one has to give the other
person a thing. Everyone keeps their stuff, done.

If you marry someone without a prenup, and you are in a divorce, then things get dirty pretty fast.
Better prevent this by talking and explaining this with your partner in advance and setting up a prenup.

[Kelsierx]

Or, you know, just don't get married. You don't need to. It serves absolutely no purpose. You can live the exact same life married or not. For some reason my logic cannot dictate, people feel that it's another step to their relationship when it isn't. A last name change and the ability to share insurances is not going to make the emotional state of your relationship any better for very long.

Being married is a public declaration of your unity together.

People these days seem to want an easy way out if they need it. That is one reason why marriage is not as popular anymore.

So yes I would say it is different.