Gender neutral facilities: A conversation hopefully done the right way

[Grimreaper]

What if i get a boner?

Whats worse than getting a boner in a room filled with 50% naked men and 50% naked women?

Getting a boner in a room filled with 100% naked men...

[Deleted]

Simply out of curiosity - why?

Out of fear of harassment, violence etc. I suppose. Especially in conservative regions where hateful attitudes towards LGBT people are common, people in Transition oftentimes face serious issues in that regard.

[Jotaux]

Simply out of curiosity - why?

It makes sense, what if someone confronts you and says "Hey you aren't supposed to be here!"?

Makes it extremely awkward and puts you in a position to be harassed.

[Jinpachi]

this is what i would tell anyone who doesnt want to use the facilities that someone else took the time, effort, and money to build for people to use. If you dont want to use what's there, go behind a bush, or do your business at home. You're not that special that you deserve a fucking restroom all to your mentally ill self

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this is what i would tell anyone who doesnt want to use the facilities that someone else took the time, effort, and money to build for people to use. If you dont want to use what's there, go behind a bush, or do your business at home. You're not that special that you deserve a fucking restroom all to your mentally ill self

I recant that statement. Sure build more, its just more seating and urinals i can use when the others are full.

[Darkeon]

Out of fear of harassment, violence etc. I suppose. Especially in conservative regions where hateful attitudes towards LGBT people are common, people in Transition oftentimes face serious issues in that regard.

That sounds like an issue that would also exist in Gender-Neutral bathrooms.
It sounds like a Bigot-related issue and said bigot would still be there even with Gender-neutral facilities.

It makes sense, what if someone confronts you and says "Hey you aren't supposed to be here!"?

Makes it extremely awkward and puts you in a position to be harassed.

I don't doubt it one bit. It's a difficult situation.
However, using a man (transitioning, sure) as example, goes to the Men's room. If ,when, actually making the deal official, then sure go to the Women's room. No genitalia conflicts there.

[Jotaux]

I don't doubt it one bit. It's a difficult situation.
However, using a man (transitioning, sure) as example, goes to the Men's room. If ,when, actually making the deal official, then sure go to the Women's room. No genitalia conflicts there.

I'm guessing during transition you do not go from full man to full woman.

[Deleted]

That sounds like an issue that would also exist in Gender-Neutral bathrooms.
It sounds like a Bigot-related issue and said bigot would still be there even with Gender-neutral facilities.

Yes and no. If it's neutral, it's neutral. Then at least they couldn't argue with "you can't be here!" The risk would be the same as anywhere else.
In gendered restrooms, however, there is always the additional risk of someone feeling offended because they feel like you are not allowed to be in there - which then again could lead to more harassment or even assaults.

However, using a man (transitioning, sure) as example, goes to the Men's room. If ,when, actually making the deal official, then sure go to the Women's room. No genitalia conflicts there.

The problem is: Where to draw the line? When exactly would you be allowed to used the other restroom? Only after having gone through all surgeries - despite the fact that you otherwise look exactly the same as on the day before?
Or how feminine/masculine do you have to look like in order to make the switch? And that's the issue - a lot of Trans people are super insecure during transition about how they are perceived, which again greatly influences in which restroom they might face more potential harassment.

[Moralgy]

I don't doubt it one bit. It's a difficult situation.
However, using a man (transitioning, sure) as example, goes to the Men's room. If ,when, actually making the deal official, then sure go to the Women's room. No genitalia conflicts there.

The problem generally is, you cant "make it official", as you say, until after a year and a decent level of cash for a demographic that can easily lose their job during transition when an employer catches on. At that point that person is usually visually female or at least leaning towards female to the point of people not being sure and no working genitalia(its the norm but results can vary). So going into the male restroom instantly outs that person and puts them at a pretty high amount of risk of violence and harassment.

[Jotaux]

The problem generally is, you cant "make it official", as you say, until after a year and a decent level of cash for a demographic that can easily lose their job during transition when an employer catches on. At that point that person is usually visually female without working male or at least leaning towards female to the point of people not being sure and no working genitalia(its the norm but results can vary). So going into the male restroom instantly outs that person and puts them at a pretty high amount of risk of violence and harassment.

Do they have resources where they can advise you on how to handle these things? I imagine transitioning is not cheap and you would need a job to do so. I assume that laws would prevent employers from firing a person because they are transgendered but they could come up with other reasons.

I realize that this is a forbidden topic but I'm curious.

[Powerogue]

I've always thought it was a decent compromise to just have man/woman/other, so you've got a third facility for people who are uncomfortable changing due to gender identity and whatnot.

Just one incorporating everyone though? I know I'd be uncomfortable with it. But, as has been brought up, would probably eventually get over it.

[Moralgy]

Do they have resources where they can advise you on how to handle these things. I imagine transitioning is not cheap and you would need a job to do so. I assume that laws would prevent employers from firing a person because they are transgendered but they could come up with other reasons.

I realize that this is a forbidden topic but I'm curious.

Generally yes, there are support type things depending on the state but there is a reason lots of trans people end up homeless or in sex work, sadly. it is fairly pricey even with insurance, and there are no laws protecting trans individuals until after the surgery, in america that is, at which point sex does kick in as a protected class. But as you said, they can still just make shit up as reasons.

[Darkeon]

Yes and no. If it's neutral, it's neutral. Then at least they couldn't argue with "you can't be here!" The risk would be the same as anywhere else.
In gendered restrooms, however, there is always the additional risk of someone feeling offended because they feel like you are not allowed to be in there - which then again could lead to more harassment or even assaults.


The problem is: Where to draw the line? When exactly would you be allowed to used the other restroom? Only after having gone through all surgeries - despite the fact that you otherwise look exactly the same as on the day before?
Or how feminine/masculine do you have to look like in order to make the switch? And that's the issue - a lot of Trans people are super insecure during transition about how they are perceived, which again greatly influences in which restroom they might face more potential harassment.

Someone who goes from "You can't be here!" to violence will still do the same in Gender-Neutral rooms... it's a bigot-issue, people won't stop being a bigot just because someone else decides it's time to have Gender-Neutral bathrooms.

If the regular person gets offended by the person in transition... well, that's on them. Thicker skin and all that.
Other than that, I'd go with genitalia. Is the "avocado" still there? Go to the Men's room.

[Moralgy]

If the regular person gets offended by the person in transition... well, that's on them. Thicker skin and all that.
Other than that, I'd go with genitalia. Is the "avocado" is still there? Go to the Men's room.

That just instantly outs a person or brings very unneeded attention. In a gender neutral area, people can still just be like "idk what that person is" but once they are forced to walk into a room that says "got a penis" it unlocks that bigotry in people.

[Deleted]

If the regular person gets offended by the person in transition... well, that's on them. Thicker skin and all that.
Other than that, I'd go with genitalia. Is the "avocado" still there? Go to the Men's room.

But that's the thing: What will other people see of you when you enter a restroom? Your overall appearance or your genitalia?

Should this guy go into a women's restroom, because he is FtM Trans but maybe didn't have SRS yet?

[Darkeon]

That just instantly outs a person or brings very unneeded attention. In a gender neutral area, people can still just be like "idk what that person is" but once they are forced to walk into a room that says "got a penis" it unlocks that bigotry in people.

If you believe that Bigotry will disappear along side Gender-Specific Restrooms.... welp, you are very naive.

[Moralgy]

If you believe that Bigotry will disappear along side Gender-Specific Restrooms.... welp, you are very naive.

That is not what I said what so ever, re-read my post if you are being cereal here.