[Spoilers!] Illidan Novel

[Fenixhart]

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Oh yes, the same functioning brainstem that would keep most people from taking their own eyes and gorging them out? Illidan is not a character that would question the nature of his redemption if it aquired him more power. That's not his nature, and to imply that he would hesitate upon that suggets a line of through that is inconsistent with the character's actions and thoughts up until that point. in other words: it breaks the fourth wall, as he shows a tendancy to ridicule the notion based on his fictional character design more so than the common line of thought he has during previous works.

So you just have no Clue what the Fourth wall is.

Okay.

Hint: It's not characters being written inconsistently.

[Atelniar]

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So you just have no Clue what the Fourth wall is.

Okay.

Hint: It's not characters being written inconsistently.

Try re-reading the edited paragraph, where I emphasize how I feel it is inconsistent and why I see it as breaking the fourth wall. I do concede that it can be stocked up to character's inconsistencies, but that very notion is ridiculous based on the very way Illidan makes fun of the idea in his mind. You may not agree, but it is a clear point on the author's end that he knows the notion is somewhat unbelievable at best and that even the character realize that. Which could be argued as breaking the fourth wall. It can be easily avoided by simply creating a better plot...

Or to explain it better: to me it seems as if Illidan looks upon the whole ordeal from a viewpoint similar to the audience and not one that is consistent with his morals and line of throught. Which would be breaking the fourth wall as he gains a perspective which is not available to him. But I do concede, again, that you can stock it up to "character development" aka: "a good redemption story". As I have stated before in this thread: I hate that shit.

Also, characters being written inconsistently doesn't make the story better or justify shitty musings from the protagonist. in which he draws a prospect into question due to his "nature", a level of reasoning he has never formerly applied to anything regarding any topic or concern in his life.

[Fenixhart]

Try re-reading the edited paragraph, where I emphasize how I feel it is inconsistent and why I see it as breaking the fourth wall. I do concede that it can be stocked up to character's inconsistencies, but that very notion is ridiculous based on the very way Illidan makes fun of the idea in his mind. You may not agree, but it is a clear point on the author's end that he knows the notion is somewhat unbelievable at best and that even the character realize that. Which could be argued as breaking the fourth wall. It can be easily avoided by simply creating a better plot...

I see what you're saying and understand where you're going,

That's still not breaking the Fourth wall.

Speaking directly to, otherwise acknowledging or doing something to the audience through this imaginary wall – or, in film, television, and video games, through a camera – is known as "breaking the fourth wall". As it is a penetration of a boundary normally set up or assumed by works of fiction, this is considered a metafictional technique.[1][5] In literature and video games, it occurs when a character acknowledges the reader or player.[6]

None of this is occuring. The Fourth Wall remains intact as it is not being engaged. Having us put the book doing going "why is Blizzard writing so fucking terrible" doesn't qualify.

[Atelniar]

I see what you're saying and understand where you're going,

That's still not breaking the Fourth wall.

None of this is occuring. The Fourth Wall remains intact as it is not being engaged. Having us put the book doing going "why is Blizzard writing so fucking terrible" doesn't qualify.

There are many ways to break the fourth wall, some are quite direct as you mention. However, this, I argue to be another manner upon which you break the fourth wall. Where you give the protagonist an insight he has never shown before with no detailed background as to why he would show such insight concerning his character at that particular time (although I haven't read the book, so I might be wrong here). I view that as placing Illidan amidst the audience, pondering his actual character design, more so than what is in line with his personality. Subtle, I admit, but not believable in his character.

As per definition: the conceptual barrier between any fictional work and its viewers or readers.

I see Illidan's musings as breaking that barrier unless the book otherwise portrays a complete change in his character. Illidan's personality and actions up until this point are conceptual barrier's that are broken by this one paragraph. It makes as little sense for him to question the aquirement of more power for his cause, as it does for him to be a warrior of light...

To question Illidan's actions is something the readers would do based on knowledge Illidan has never had. Such as his interaction with Arthas. Illidan knew very little about Arthas but still followed the lure he was thrown without question. The paragraph would make more sense if Illidan was shown to muse upon his previous actions more specifically, and thereby implying a development in his character, rather than him simply tossing out the notion that "it is not in his character". That is something we as readers are able to do, not Illidan.

[Fenixhart]

There are many ways to break the fourth wall, some are quite direct as you mention. However, this, I argue to be another manner upon which you break the fourth wall. Where you give the protagonist an insight he has never shown before with no detailed background as to why he would show such insight concerning his character at that particular time (although I haven't read the book, so I might be wrong here). I view that as placing Illidan amidst the audience, pondering his actual character design, more so than what is in line with his personality. Subtle, I admit, but not believable in his character.

...He was given a vision of himself.

That actually happened.

In the Book.

He was not put in the audience he was literally shown a brian-video. And he's not pondering his characte design-he's wondering how a Vengeful bloody dude with a million hangups ended up with a freaking halo and looking at peace with himself with pimper wings.

This was a character looking at his possible future and seeing something so unlike himnself he goes "what in the-" because he beleives himself incapable of being this future self.

I mean, this is basically Ebenezer Scrooge in WoW.

[Atelniar]

...He was given a vision of himself.

That actually happened.

In the Book.

He was not put in the audience he was literally shown a brian-video. And he's not pondering his characte design-he's wondering how a Vengeful bloody dude with a million hangups ended up with a freaking halo and looking at peace with himself with pimper wings.

This was a character looking at his possible future and seeing something so unlike himnself he goes "what in the-" because he beleives himself incapable of being this future self.

I mean, this is basically Ebenezer Scrooge in WoW.

Oh good lord, are you implying that they are borrowing from A christmas carol as well now? Where is it going to end? Like, I have said prior to our discussion: Warcraft has the depth of a puddle and the width of an ocean. The way Illidan muses upon the vision has no depth. He does not question specific actions he has made that might be faulty, he merely throws out the notion that it is not akin to his character. And he does so without the slightest sign of questioning where his faults lie.

Comparing that to how Ebenezer Scrooge reacted to his visions is a bit weak. Considering how Scrooge consistently questioned where and how his actions had implications upon his character and the people around him. Illidan never does that?

That is why I say that Illidan breaks the fourth wall. You can chalk it up to bad story-telling, of course. I don't argue against that. The way Illidan questions the vision is, however, questionable at best.

[DesoPL]

This could explain somehow an talk between Velen and Tyrande about holy light stuff, since if i good remember, Velen argue with Tyrande that Elune is in fact an Naaru.

[Atelniar]

This could explain somehow an talk between Velen and Tyrande about holy light stuff, since if i good remember, Velen argue with Tyrande that Elune is in fact an Naaru.

Yes, but there has never been any sign of Naaru interaction on Azeroth that is not distinctly tied to the draenei's coming or Kael'Thas' actions in Outland. The Elder Naaru that Illidan encounters seems to be tied to Outland in some manner, not Azeroth. Although, there are many similarities between Elune and the Naaru, there also inconsistencies in that Elune is tied to the Well of Eternity and Azeroth. Which implies that she is tied to the slumbering Titan spawn which Azeroth as a world contains. It would be a bit strange for her to be a godmother Naaru that somehow found herself intwined (as the sole Naaru in recorded history) with Azeroth at that point in time.

Elune is probably the sole-surviving mythos in Warcraft that still interest people after Chronicles. To make her into a mere Naaru among many would be a proper anti-climax. Elder Naaru or not.

Velen makes an assumption based on how the high priestess commune with Elune. However, Elune differs from other Naaru in that she rarely interacts directly. She empowers her chosen individual and commune solely with that chosen priestess. She even has a whole species worship her, something the Naaru do not want. Which is why Tyrande dismiss Velen's assumption and imply his lack of knowledge about night elves' religion.

[DesoPL]

Yes, but there has never been any sign of Naaru interaction on Azeroth that is not distinctly tied to the draenei's coming or Kael'Thas' actions in Outland. The Elder Naaru that Illidan encounters seems to be tied to Outland in some manner, not Azeroth. Although, there are many similarities between Elune and the Naaru, there also inconsistencies in that Elune is tied to the Well of Eternity and Azeroth. Which implies that she is tied to the slumbering Titan spawn which Azeroth as a world contains. It would be a bit strange for her to be a godmother Naaru that somehow found herself intwined (as the sole Naaru in recorded history) with Azeroth at that point in time.

Elune is probably the sole-surviving mythos in Warcraft that still interest people after Chronicles. To make her into a mere Naaru among many would be a proper anti-climax. Elder Naaru or not.

Velen makes an assumption based on how the high priestess commune with Elune. However, Elune differs from other Naaru in that she rarely interacts directly. She empowers her chosen individual and commune solely with that chose priestess. She even has a whole species worship her, something the Naaru do not want.

Another question is, how taurens look about Elune. Since if i good remember, they believe is an wildmother or something. Also there is an theory that Elune somehow was mortal, who is ascended by well of eternity magic. This could explain why Elune have connection with well of eternity.

[Atelniar]

Another question is, how taurens look about Elune. Since if i good remember, they believe is an wildmother or something. Also there is an theory that Elune somehow was mortal, who is ascended by well of eternity magic. This could explain why Elune have connection with well of eternity.

Or she could simply be the leading elemental of Spirit. Her discrete interaction with mortals and her ability to show Jarod Shadowsong an image of his mate as she leaves her bodily temple upon her death implies a strong connection to the spiritual realm of mortal souls. Tyrande refused to admit that it was her own doing, afterall, and she did not see that vision. Only Jarod did. The element that is Spirit implies serenity and order, and one might notice how the spirits of Azeroth are in a state that does not look to be in order. Her first appearance is connected to the wound caused by the titans. The Well of Eternity, which is a literal wound upon Azeroth. She could well be the missing elemental of Spirit which only first made an appearance at that point in time. The slumbering titan Azeroth may have fed upon her and somehow imprisioned her. Or she may have fused with his presence in some manner. Perhaps Elune is an empowered elemental spirit that has ascended by merging with an unborn titan in some manner? She embodies the power of both the light and the arcane, which is pretty much established in lore repeatedly. She wields both schools of magic by empowering others with it. Perhaps that is caused by her fusion with the unborn Titan? It would make her an entity that is quite unique compared to other titans.

[Deleted]

You mean it's your headcanon that the Void or Light are stronger than Fel.

Someone should really tell those Warlocks, the class that seeks power above all else, to become Paladins or Priests.

Right? Or maybe, they're just all too stupid to see that. Sargeras too.

No, it's Chronicle canon that Light and Void is the storngest form of magic.
Yeah someone should, but Warlocks want power, they don't want to become purple tentacles from to much void magic, and just because you can use ligth won't make you suddenly stronger if you don't know what to do with it.

[Deleted]

Another question is, how taurens look about Elune. Since if i good remember, they believe is an wildmother or something. Also there is an theory that Elune somehow was mortal, who is ascended by well of eternity magic. This could explain why Elune have connection with well of eternity.

we only have myths about Elune.nothing is confirmed what she.I bet that the devs did that on purpose.

[DesoPL]

Or she could simply be the leading elemental of Spirit. Her discrete interaction with mortals and her ability to show Jarod Shadowsong an image of his mate as she leaves her bodily temple upon her death implies a strong connection to the spiritual realm of mortal souls. Tyrande refused to admit that it was her own doing, afterall, and she did not see that vision. Only Jarod did. The element that is Spirit implies serenity and order, and one might notice how the spirits of Azeroth are in a state that does not look to be in order. Her first appearance is connected to the wound caused by the titans. The Well of Eternity, which is a literal wound upon Azeroth. She could well be the missing elemental of Spirit which only first made an appearance at that point in time. The slumbering titan Azeroth may have fed upon her and somehow imprisioned her. Or she may have fused with his presence in some manner. Perhaps Elune is an empowered elemental spirit that has ascended by merging with an unborn titan in some manner? She embodies the power of both the light and the arcane, which is pretty much established in lore repeatedly. She wields both schools of magic by empowering others with it. Perhaps that is caused by her fusion with the unborn Titan? It would make her an entity that is quite unique compared to other titans.

According to theory that Elune was an mortal. Is mentioned that she might been an troll, maybe an chief or something.

While proven by Brann Bronzebeard's archaeological research that night elves were descended from trolls (dark trolls are their closest ancestors), and Zanza the Restless, a mortal becoming a powerful Loa, it is highly possible that Elune was once a mortal that ascended into a deity by the Well of Eternity's magics, transforming her to become more closely akin to the Titans' own image since the Well was their creation. This would explain why the night elves bear resemblance to the dryads and keepers of the grove, who themselves have a biological link to Elune herself. In addition, Elune might not be her 'mortal name' as their language had changed over the ages (from Zandali to Darnassian), and since the night elves revered her as the mother of their race, Elune might have been a powerful matriarch of her tribe, which fits the claim of her being the Night Warrior. Night elves sometimes refer to Elune as "the Great Mother", although this is possibly due to her parentage of the revered Cenarius.

This explain Malfurion look, ya know horns stuff. Night elves are resemblance of dryads and keepers of grove. Also Elune might be not her name as mortal, who knows?

[Keristrasza]

can demons/demonic beings "eat" holy energy and become holy?

I could be completely wrong on this, but wasn't the crystal/metal what ever it was that formed Ashbringer a void/corrupted object that consumed/absorbed the light? It's been so long since I read about it I have forgotten almost entirely. o.0

[Deleted]

According to theory that Elune was an mortal. Is mentioned that she might been an troll, maybe an chief or something.



This explain Malfurion look, ya know horns stuff. Night elves are resemblance of dryads and keepers of grove. Also Elune might be not her name as mortal, who knows?

according to Chronicles,she taught Trolls about the Titan worlds and etc.I doubt that she was a troll.they discovered the Well more than 15,000 years ago.when they did,Elune communed with them and taught them things about the Titans and etc.

[Atelniar]

According to theory that Elune was an mortal. Is mentioned that she might been an troll, maybe an chief or something.



This explain Malfurion look, ya know horns stuff. Night elves are resemblance of dryads and keepers of grove. Also Elune might be not her name as mortal, who knows?

No one, and that is what makes Elune one of the sole redeeming factors of WoW lore, she is still a mystery. The problem surrounding her character, as you stated in your quote: "Night Warrior", yet she is anything but a warrior in her current figure. She acts through empowering chosen individuals and downright act as a pacifist. That's an interesting development for a chieftain among trolls who had the title "Night Warrior". The only consistent factors we know about Elune are the following:

1) Players have interacted with her and heard her voice through the original questline concerning the gem of Elune in Winterspring before the Cataclysm re-vamp.

2) She communes and empowers a specific individual as her chosen avatar among mortals. Tyrande is her chosen pupil.

3) Night elves were not monotheists, there was imagery involving multiple deities and they do worship demi-gods beside Elune. The Temple of Elune depicted Elune as one among many gods who created the world.

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I could be completely wrong on this, but wasn't the crystal/metal what ever it was that formed Ashbringer a void/corrupted object that consumed/absorbed the light? It's been so long since I read about it I have forgotten almost entirely. o.0

It was, a machinima called Tales of the Past 3 focused heavily on that part of the lore, the Ashbringer was created by infusing a nefarious void/corrupted object with holy energies. It held potential for both good and evil. So that "lore twist" isn't exactly surprising.

[Deleted]

I would rather have this

much more fitting.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Another question is, how taurens look about Elune. Since if i good remember, they believe is an wildmother or something. Also there is an theory that Elune somehow was mortal, who is ascended by well of eternity magic. This could explain why Elune have connection with well of eternity.

After chronicles, it's pretty hard to understand how people don't think Elune is the Azeroth titan. I mean the well of eternity is basically a wound left after y'shaarj was ripped out. All of the evidence points to her being a that titan.

[Deleted]

It was, a machinima called Tales of the Past 3 focused heavily on that part of the lore, the Ashbringer was created by infusing a nefarious void/corrupted object with holy energies. It held potential for both good and evil. So that "lore twist" isn't exactly surprising.

There was a much more canon comic as well. The Ashbringer orb is supposedly a piece of a Naaru that was cleansed by the bunch of paladins there.

[Atelniar]

There was a much more canon comic as well. The Ashbringer orb is supposedly a piece of a Naaru that was cleansed by the bunch of paladins there.

Yes, but this was established already in in-game lore. That Ashbringer was created in that manner, at least. I brought the machinima up because it is a fast and easy way of getting an overview of that part of the lore if you don't like reading about it on websites.